Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

I have a question for Christians:

How can your deity be all-loving and all-forgiving when a single sin is enough to eternally damn you?

For those who are aware, there is one unforgivable sin according to the Bible, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. It comes straight from the deity's mouth.

...how does this make any sense?

I believe you need to look at Judaism for the answers on this subject. Christianity to me is an endless contradiction of parables. I have some sites for you to go over on Judaism and you see all to your hearts contempt.
Judaism 101
Being Jewish
Your answers are waiting for you on these two sites!

im just really happy GOD and Jesus are in my life!

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


Eh, Judaism has its myriad problems as well, but this is really just about the Christian doctrine of the Holy Spirit.

reply to post by camaro68ss


What did that add to anything?

From what I've learned, The Holy Spirit is, esoterically interpreted, the source of the sexual energy. And to directly misuse the sexual energy is to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. Although I'm sure that blaspheming the Holy Spirit with words is also sinning against the Holy Spirit.

However, hell(Klipoth) is misunderstood by exoteric orthodox-Christianity; because hell, like all phenomena, has a beginning and an end.

And it is taught that since karma is not totally mechanical, as it is guided by the Intelligence(Binah the Holy Spirit) of the Christ or Logos, that certain karma is forgivable if we repent with sincerity. "When an inferior law is transcended by a superior law, the superior law erases the inferior law".

Although sin against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable, meaning that such karma must be payed with pain. Anyhow, again, hell has a beginning and an end. Only The Divine, that Is beyond the wheel of samsara, has no beginning and no end.

So those who do end up entering the Second Death in the Klipoth spheres, will only be there for the length of time according to their karma. And after all of their karma is payed in hell, their soul then returns to the evolutionary cycles of nature in order to re-achieve the humanoid state(transmigration).

It is also taught that one can pay for their karma, that they have accumulated as a result of sinning against the Holy Spirit, without having to enter the Second Death. Although it is still very painful to pay this unforgivable karma.

Esoteric terms related to this are: Karmasaya and Kamaduro.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Well how is the Christian doctrine different from the Jewish doctrine? I believe you would learn a lot more from the Jewish perspective then from any Christian.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
I have a question for Christians:

How can your deity be all-loving and all-forgiving when a single sin is enough to eternally damn you?

For those who are aware, there is one unforgivable sin according to the Bible, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. It comes straight from the deity's mouth.

...how does this make any sense?

In the context that it is spoken, most believe that what Christ is saying is that the unforgivable sin is to attribute the acts of the Holy Spirit to Satan, or to say that God's acts are evil. Jesus specifically says that you can talk smack about him, but not about the Holy Spirit, possibly because the Spirit works through people, who do good and don't deserve to be slandered for it.

Another perspective stems from the belief that the Holy Spirit is in us, and that our bodies are temples for God, so that blaspheming the Spirit may refer to destroying the temple (committing suicide,) which is unforgivable. This works from a logical standpoint, as well, because you can't be forgiven your sins after you're dead, and if the sin is killing yourself, how are you to ask forgiveness?

The second is not a commonly held belief (I might even have made it up myself, I don't remember,) but it does address the puzzling nature of the more widely held belief, along with the concern that one might "accidentally" blaspheme the Holy Spirit by misunderstanding something or talking out of turn.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Hello madnessinmysoul

I used to be a Christian, so if you don't mind, I'll give my past point of view combined with my current understandings.

Past Belief:
Does not a parent still contain love in their hearts when disciplining their children? When a child of their own image, own flesh and blood goes astray, misbehaves, acts wickedly or evily, will not the parent do anything in their power to guide the child back to the good ways? Will not a parent speak, yell, lecture, take away luxuries, punish, and even hit the child in efforts to correct their bad ways? Then after the hardship of discipline the parent will rejoice and draw ever more close to the child for learning and correcting their evil, bad, or unacceptable ways.

This is very much similar to our Father who art in Heaven. He created all. Created such a perfect world for us, His children. He has given us all we need to live, to survive, and be happy. He has sent us His prophets, His lessons, His laws, and even His own Son to help bring us back to His love. He gives us all the opportunities we need to return to His Love through righteousness and the grace of His Son. Even when we commit the most heinous of evils, He still welcomes us to His flock, if we only humble ourselves and seek His forgiveness. Just as a father can only take so much before he may turn his back on his children, possibly even disown the child, so to will God cast us into Hell if we fail to run to His arms of Love, Forgiveness, and Grace. He gives us all the chances we need, but if we turn our backs on Him, He will turn His back on us.




Current Belief:
An All Loving, All Merciful, All Knowing, Most Forgiving God should KNOW our struggles and shortcomings. All Loving should mean All Loving! Not part-time Loving! If a victim can forgive the criminal even without the criminal begging forgiveness, shouldn't an ALL Loving God be able to do better? An All Mighty, All Knowing God should look at us with acceptance that we are lower than Him. Do we humans use such harsh punishment such as eternal damnation in a lake of fire when training or correcting our animals? No! We give treats, we reward, we work with patience to guide our animals into fulfilling our will. And if the animal fails to comply, we understand! We give a different life to the animal based on their capacity! If us lowly humans can show such understanding to our animals, then why does this All Loving, All Knowing, All Mighty God not show us the same we do to our animals? Is not an All Knowing, All Loving God beyond our capacity of Love?

Oh, how I wish I understood this idea a long time ago. I was blinded in my faith into justifying an eternity of torment for my fellow humans. I, as a lowly, part-time loving human does not wish eternal fire, torment, and damnation onto anyone. Yes, I feel relief when the rapist is executed... when the child molester is beaten and killed in prison. But I will NEVER wish eternal damnation on anyone for believing differently than me! This God seems like the ultimate Extremist, Fundamentalist, Radicalist, Terrorist, and Jihadist!!!! God, you want me to burn in Hell forever just because I do not agree with you? You are a liar, because this is NOT All Loving. Call yourself what you are, a part-time loving God!!!!

Originally posted by adjensen
In the context that it is spoken, most believe that what Christ is saying is that the unforgivable sin is to attribute the acts of the Holy Spirit to Satan

In terms of Christian Gnosticism, the following parenthesis would explain that:


"...the unforgivable sin is to attribute the acts of the Holy Spirit(Kundalini) to Satan(Kundabuffer)"


Many have made the grave mistake of assigning attributes of Kundalini(Shekinah, the feminine aspect of Binah the Holy Spirit) to the Kundabuffer(the tail of Satan), and vice-versa.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul
madnessinmysoul,

First there is no need for any unforgiven sin as all will be forgiven with true repentance. As for blastphemy of the Holy Spirit it is when one has completely and many times put Him out until He no longer strives in your heart and mind to come and repent. It is the individual that puts Him out and away. The Holy Spirit while He still abides continues to convict of any unforgiven sin to bring one to His throne of grace. He, the Holy Spirit not only convicts of sin but of truth when the person has truly and solidly arrived.

Truthiron.

Sin is the ability to understand good and evil.

God knows good from evil. Eve was unable to even think eating the fruit was evil until she ate it.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


No... KNOWLEDGE is knowing good from evil.

SIN is doing something that is against God's commands.

As for blaspheming against the Holy Spirit... just for you, I went and researched it... and I was a little curious myself.

To “blaspheme” the Holy Spirit means much more than cursing God, or using His name in vain. In fact, there are only a few places the Greek word blasfeemía is transliterated as “blaspheme” in the New Testament. The Greek word blasfeemía is a generic word used in ancient times to describe behavior and speech that vilifies another. The Jews accused Jesus of blaspheming when he claimed to be the Son of God. Jesus uses the Greek word blasfeemía in context with the unpardonable transgression, but in a very LIMITED sense.

It's not just cursing God...

Jesus said in Mark 3:28, “Truly and solemnly I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever abusive and blasphemous things they utter,” and again in Luke 12:10 Jesus said, “Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him…” Note especially the words, “all sins,” and “whatever abusive and blasphemous things they utter,” shall be forgiven, even those who speaks a word against the Son of Man (Jesus),” will be forgiven.

The word blasphemy is derived from the Greek blasphemeo (NT: 987); it is defined as meaning, “To revile or speak impiously (of divine things) or reproachfully (of human things).” When directed at a person, blasphemeo means, “to hurt someone’s reputation by smiting them with evil or slanderous reports or words.” It implies more than just cursing at another or other verbal abuse stemming from angry impulse; the word blasphemeo is the use of words and/or speech to deliberately slander another, particularly with self-serving motives.

The word blasphemeo is from a compound word blásphemos (NT: 989) and blásphemos means, “to BE abusive and revile another’s good name.” The word blásphemos is a compound of two root words, “blapto,” (NT: 984) and “pheme,” (NT: 5345). ·

Blapto is a primary verb meaning, to hinder, i.e. to injure Pheme (pronounced “fame”) is from a root word “phemi,” (NT: 5346) and means, “a saying, i.e. rumor,” and phemi originates from phos (NT: 5457) and “phaino” (NT: 5316), which means, “to reveal or make one's thoughts known thru speech.” . Combining all of the literal meanings of all the words that make up the Greek blasphemeo, a precise definition of the word translated as “blasphemy” in the NT is as follows: ·

BLASPHEMY – The use of slander to make one’s thoughts publicly known in an attempt to ruin the good name and reputation of someone else in order to hinder them.

According to the definitions above, to blaspheme the spirit of God is to make one’s thoughts known in a calculated and deliberately evil way. To blaspheme the Spirit an evil person sets out with a plan devised to publicly vilify God with the aim of destroying His reputation and His credibility. This is done by contemptuously hindering the operation of God’s spirit and slandering His authority. You can see this is more involved than angrily cursing God, or using Jesus’ name in a profane or corrupt manner.

And here's the best source I found if you want to read more. I love it when they translate the greek root words straight to English!

The Holy Spirit is Holy and it is the the actual power through which God manifest's himself inside the believer. It is also called the Spirit of Truth and it can even come inside you and teach you things that God would like you to know.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


The "blasphemy toward the Holy Spirit" or "unforgivable sin" is for those christians who have been baptised by the Holy Spirit. If they have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them and then become "devilish or satanic" against it, they are commiting a sin they cannot be forgiven for. Those who are not christian or who do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them are in no danger of this sin.... even if you do swear to the Holy Spirit.... because you don't understand.

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

The "blasphemy toward the Holy Spirit" or "unforgivable sin" is for those christians who have been baptised by the Holy Spirit. If they have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them and then become "devilish or satanic" against it, they are commiting a sin they cannot be forgiven for. Those who are not christian or who do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them are in no danger of this sin.... even if you do swear to the Holy Spirit.... because you don't understand.

If you read Christ's admonishment in context, he seems to be referring to the Pharisees, who are clearly not Christians (actually, at the point of his statement, there were no Christians :-) so I don't believe that your statement is accurate. I do agree that Christians who profess their faith and yet commit horrendous acts, sometimes in the "name of God," are a particularly heinous type of evil, but I don't believe that this is what Christ is talking about here.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


blasphemy against the holy spirit is generally regarded (in most major, but not all) christian sects as dying without recognizing jesus as your savior. so in a way its kind of redundant, since without jesus you dont' have forgiveness anyways.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Are you looking for an answer Philosophically?? or you are looking for an answer of Religious nature??
And please share with us, which is the reason you are looking for an answer??

If you are looking a Philosophical nature answer, then I do not think that will be easy to find an answer. For the simple reason that we first must define, the very nature of the "Holy Spirit".

If you looking for an answer in Religious nature, then at first you have to look to the doctrine of "Trinity", which according to the "Trinity doctrine", the holy spirit is the third person of a Godhead, equal to the Father and to the Son. In other words "The Holy Spirit is totally God."

At Genesis 1:2 the Bible states that "God's active force ["spirit" (Hebrew, ru'ach)] was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters." Here, God's spirit is his active force working to shape the earth.

A simple answer is this. If you accept the fact that The Holy Spirit is the Creative force of God, then if you Sin against this Force, in religious context means, that you are Blaspheming against the whole Creation, including us as Humans, which is an unforgivable Sin.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Ah we meet again, this time your more on my turf in this forum ; )

First let me say a person that has always believed in evolution or has been an atheist can't be guilty of blasphemy, so your off the hook, you can't do it no matter how hard you try.

Because blasphemy can only be committed by ex-Christians. And not even every ex-christian can do it either.

This is how it works a person through holy spirit comes to understand the truth of the bible and God's purpose, AND God knows he/she has attained this. Then that person for whatever reason actively works against that purpose, when they know deep within the core of their soul what they are doing is a sin against God (working directly against his purpose) and they do it anyway. That is blasphemy, it is not a simple sin. Once committed that person can never be forgiven. And only God judges that it has been done. An example of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is Judas, he knew, but betrayed the son of God anyway for a bag of silver.

Of the billions alive today very few are in that category. Because most have never attained a level of knowledge or made the commitment to serve God at the level where they would even qualify to commit blasphemy.

In my area they are simply known as "Apostates" as they have turned there back on God to the point that they are actively trying to get others to follow them away from God, instead just moving on with their lives.

Blue-Jay33, I don't know how you view Esoteric Christianity or Christian Gnosis, however the following explains some things related to what you've said:

"Kamaduro and Karmasaya dwell within Yesod, and constitute unforgivable treasons against the Holy Spirit."

"Thus, the higher the disciple is, the more terrible is the fall.

"Those who have not seen the Light ignore a great deal and therefore, much is forgiven of them; however, the greater the degree of cognizance, the greater the degree of responsibility.

"Therefore, those who saw the Light and then leave become demons."

Also...:

The physical crucifixion of יהושוע-Ben-Pandira was not necessary for the redemption of humanity

Judas-although one of the three traitors-has a positive symbolic aspect as well, that is related to the symbolic crucifixion of יהשוה(Christ)

Samael Aun Weor wrote that Javhe or Yahweh is the chief of demons, and that said chief of demons is not to be confused with the correct pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton: Yahowah, Jehovah, or Yah-Hava.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33
Hi Blue_Jay33,

Don't you notice the Spirit of God is pulling on many Atheists and Agnnostics. I have several around me here and they are continually questioning. It is the Spirit that is bothering them, Just as a lady came into our home church one day and asked if anyone could tell her if she had grieved away the Holy Spirit. I told her, no lady not yet you haven't. She wanted to know how I knew that. I told her, You would not have come through that door and asked that question if you have. He is still striving in your heart. There does come a time He doesn't.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

When He no longer is pulling on our heart we are out raising hell and not contending with any on the subject because it no longer is in the heart to matter.

Truthiron.