Obama guilty of treason and patriots just let him get away with it?

Ok birthers, I am just plain going to call you all out. I no longer believe the birther movement even consists of many people that actually believe it. For a while on ATS I had thought all that nonsense had gone away. I think maybe it is just getting sneakier.

Just recently these two threads popped up.
What will be done with Obama?
and
Now the house needs to hear this
One is over a year old. One is a couple of days old. For some reason the old one was resurrected at the time the new one was written. Both threads are by the same poster and are calling for Obama to be hung over the birther issue. Same topic, new title, neither one says what it is in the title.

I have also seen quite a few people post things about Obama being Kenyan as if it is an established fact in part of whatever point they are trying to make. Clearly there are people that honestly believe it is indeed a fact that Obama was not born on US soil and is not a natural born US citizen.

There is absolutely no shortage of posts stating matter of factly that Obama has never produced a birth certificate. People post this all over ATS even in threads with photos of the birth certificate. There is sometimes a failing argument about how it is not a birth certicate but this always ends when someone explains what a birth certificate actually is. This is one thing all birthers seem to have in common is not knowing what a birth certificate is and how that is different from a birth registration or even what that is.

So, to all you America loving patriotic Tea Party birther folks out there, I am calling you out. Why are you just letting it happen? You are so sure of yourselves and yet you just let it go? What is the deal there?

Please notice I said nothing about race. Also note I am not inviting yet another discussion on Obama's legitimacy to be president. I am speaking to the people that are already certain he is not. Going on that premise, if you all believe it then please explain to me why you and your constitution have not gone and done anything about it?

reply to post by Curiousisall


The birth certificate issue is about the dumbest thing I have ever seen.

There are issue that those of us who disagree with Obama can use to our
advantage without having to resort to these childish BS stories.

I still don't get the birthers, and I don't think I ever will.

Oh and I'm in the Tea Party here in Reno. None of us believe this crap
I'm sure some TP people do. But not in my local group. We have more red meat to chew on.

The birther thing was a distraction to promote fear in the intellectually challenged against the sitting president.

One can of course speculate on where this list of nonsense came from, be it from the far right fringe, or foreign enemies trying to sow discontent amongst american citizens...both seem plausable..just a whisper that the government needs to be opposed because scary africans are running the show.

Many people over time seen through this and seen the facts and the endless fact checking sites as...well, facts. Some however still continue to think Obama is some sleeper cell muslim kenyan marxist radical reptilian etc etc etc...however, they are unlikely to do anything because they are simply too crazy to make a functional plan...

they are like the people whom could potentially get a few like minded nuts together and immediately get paranoid about the people in the group, shooting them all for thinking they are secret agent reptilian kenyans or something.

of course, there are the lazy thinking ones...the ones that accept Obama is probably a kenyan because someone said it once and they decided its more fun to blame that for all the problems on earth than to research and take responsibility...they are also harmless because they want to be living in a world where they can point at other things, fact or nonsense, and say thats the reason they fail when they try at stuff.

reply to post by projectvxn


I believe we agree on the importance of this issue. I truly believe that there are far too many legitimate issues with Obama to be upset over and things that actually have an impact on us. I have to think that even at this point the hardcore birthers realize they are never going to get their "disclosure" and should at least take an interest in the economy or the war or something.

That is what is killing me about all the strange gossip about him being gay or depressed or whatever. I have never seen one birther thread end with someone on the birther side being in the right. They just fizzle out and then pop up again elsewhere with the same argument over and over. This is why I was so glad I thought it had died out. It was such a huge distraction from real issues.

It kind of gets to me to see people on ATS claim to be in the know and understand how TPTB just want them distracted with nonsense so they are not looking when the looting starts and yet they spend more time talking about this birther issue than jobs or even all the imported poisonous chinese crap we got our kids last christmas. Almost anything seems more important. I am not an Obamanat and yet ATS makes me love him since so much of that talk about him is rumor such as the huge hit the birther issue has been.

So I feel it is time to get that constitution, dust off our boots and go do something about it. Either we believe it or not. Time to put up or shut up. I say anyone that believes it is a fact that Obama is not a natural born US citizen, eligable to be president of the United States of America that is not taking some kind of action is juts as guilty of the treason they accuse him of. Aiding and abetting?

No, I am not advocating violent action either.


As to the Tea Party comment. Let me clarify.

I do not in any way mean to insinuate that the Tea Party and the Birther movement are the same thing or that all TP folks are birthers. That was merely aimed at the vast number of birthers on ATS that also happen to claim to be TP folks simply because they are supposed to love the constitution more than anyone. So that particular minority of people where TP and birthers cross should be the ones marching to Washington to put a stop to this.

I really hope that clears that up. I really am not trying to link the Tea Party with the birthers. I am just addressing what I see here on ATS.

Originally posted by Curiousisall
happen to claim to be TP folks simply because they are supposed to love the constitution more than anyone.

Show them the preamble to the constitution and watch them sweat. heh

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The intent is right there, yet they would love for this to simply not exist. They go up in arms, talking about it like its all interpretation and just a bit of philosophical idealistic nonsense...

Welfare, tranquility and liberty...o-noes...the founding fathers were pinko marxists..

The would have been opposed by the tea party...meh, those founding fathers may have also been kenyans

Almost as if on cue, this was recently posted in another thread.

Originally posted by joeshsamp
reply to post by eaglewoman

 

Well i'm proud of my country too but not the president...he apperently is not proud of this country seeing as he cant even come forth with his birth certificate...

I cut it off there because the rest of it is about this trip overseas. What I am looking at is this declarative statement of fact that he has not come forth with his birth certificate. If we are to believe he has not done so then that means he has comitted forgery and or fraud by releasing the images of one online that he did. Yet, that poster is not on their way to Washington to do anything about it.

This day in age, people are very sceptical, and fearful of things to come. Its all perception, and people will believe either what they independantly discover, or what people whom they respect say it is. We are creatures of acceptance.

reply to post by Curiousisall


I think where many people went wrong in their opposition to Obama was in the repetition of far right wing conspiracy theories. The birther issue, the gay issue, and a whole host of other ridiculousness too numerous to name, set back was is largely a true American movement.

We often ask the dems and reps to admit, discuss and work out their mistakes and move forward. While I understand that the broader TPM isn't cohesive, I think it's time to start. I think it's time to go back to the original message. We need to get out of the business of social engineering that the dems and reps are often a part of.

Part of this is getting rid of the far right fringe among us. They are the source of the racism, the birther crap, the rumors of Obama being secretly gay and depressed about it. It's all bull#. The Liberals need to get rid of the socialists and progressives among them. They are cancer, and are rejected by most of the people around them, their ideology falling on the deaf ears of true Liberals, people who know how to use the Free Market to do good for the world. I can point to many examples.

They have their own set of conspiracy theories which the public should reject. The likes of Soros and Media Matters who say a Constitutionalist movement would amount to going back to the early 19th century, that we are somehow racist Brownshirts who want to erect razor wire along the ghettos. That gun owners and enthusiasts are "nuts", and that being fiscally conservative means you don't care about the poor.

Neither argument, on either side is REMOTELY reasonable. We have seen violence this election cycle folks. Think about that. When people put out paranoid, unthinking propaganda the crazies act on it. I've seen that before and since the close of the election here on ATS. It is unsettling to say the least.

While I see Obama as a tyrannical statist, I don't ignore the many tyrannical statists that came before him. I think we need to focus on how were being screwed by government rather than how we can screw the other guy.

I used to think that we needed a revolution in this country to get anything done, that the rifles needed to come out because of the enormity of the situation. People react sometimes in extreme ways because what they see is so extreme. Part of that is these stupid topics on whether the President of the United States is an American citizen or not. We need perspective in this country. We need focus.

And this thread is just another turn of the spoon in the pot,
if youre asking for the wheel to stop why keep turning it?
The wonderful thing about opinions is that we're still allowed to have them without consequence, the other wonderful thing we have is the choice to participate or not participate in conversations about those opinions.
Maybe the limited feeling gained by expressing their concern in a rant posting helps them deal with their battles better, just like maybe you posting this helped you feel a little better.
We all know the worlds not square and true (at least most do) and the Obama issue is no different than the Bush issue or Clinton issue or any other issue that will just engage us emotionally and yield zero results.
It's a time waster, you already know that.
Obama guilty of treason?
Just gasoline on the fire that youre trying to put out, or at least contain, and it was all done and motivated by emotion, as will be any response.
You can swing at ghosts all day long and get nothing but tired.

reply to post by HappilyEverAfter


I take it you did not even actually read either of my posts in this thread as your post is clearly a response to what you roughly surmised this thread is about and not actually what it is. I would love to respond to what you wrote but since you could not extend the same courtesy, I will just focus my attention on that bit about us all being free to have an opinion and move along.

Originally posted by Curiousisall
reply to post by HappilyEverAfter

 

I take it you did not even actually read either of my posts in this thread as your post is clearly a response to what you roughly surmised this thread is about and not actually what it is. I would love to respond to what you wrote but since you could not extend the same courtesy, I will just focus my attention on that bit about us all being free to have an opinion and move along.

Oh I've read them, in this thread and others, and although I see and agree with your position, like I said, it's just another turn of the spoon in the pot.
Results=Zero.
Nothing against you at all, but unless youre driving to D.C. as well, what's the point?

reply to post by projectvxn


I agree with everything you said one hundred percent. That is why it scares me to see people as prominent as Michelle Bachmen perpetuate this frings nonsense and then to see their counterparts in the media become an echo chamber for them. Even Michale Savage still insists Obama is not a US citizen, of course he flip flops on it but I heard him say it again just last week. We do indeed need to get rid of the fringe on any and all sides. What scares me is just how much of a voice this particular fringe seems to have. I know a lot of people think Michelle Bachman is a joke but she does hold office and this trip to India rumor BS proves that people listen to her.

When I read the birther threads and watch people twist logic beyond breaking and contradict themselves over and over just to stick to the story it really concerns me that we cannot reach a conclusion one way or the other. When one side has to do such tricks to stick to its story, I am worried about us all when I see so many follow right along over that cliff of insanity.

I recently posted in another thread that by looking at ATS, Obama looks like the best president in history just because the vast majority of complaints about him are these nonsense rumors and nothing to do with his performance in office. I do not get it.

Now that this snake is rearing its ugly head again and the strict adherence to the constitution is the new black, I feel it is time these people let their own ideas meet finally. Let's get it over with. Either Obama is a US citizen or not. There is no middle ground so I do not get it. Let's go remove his Kenyan butt from office or admit he was born in Hawaii. We have to pick one and move forward. There are lots of things to do today so lets start crossing a few items off the list.

Who is with me?

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
Oh I've read them, in this thread and others, and although I see and agree with your position, like I said, it's just another turn of the spoon in the pot.
Results=Zero.
Nothing against you at all, but unless youre driving to D.C. as well, what's the point?

See, I see birther threads all over ATS that are just copies of each other. Each one is just another spoon in the exact same pot. I have tossed out the pot. The water was polluted and the soup was rancid. This is the last damn spoon in the kitchen. Anyone that needs their own spoon already has a birther thread to suit their taste. My intention here is not to keep that argument going. I clearly stated I am not even going to entertain it. This is about putting it to rest. People believe this rumor to be a fact. They believe it is indeed a confirmed and proven fact. Why would they just let it go on then? That makes no sense to me.

I would like to see no more threads pop up with some vague title that turn out to just be some birther thread covering the same old same old. Like you expressed, it has been done to death. Let's stop it by solving the problem once and for all. It is treasonous to do anything else. If we are going to entertain the idea of hanging Obama for treason, then we need to hold true to those values and bring everyone sitting back with this knowledge and doing nothing about to the gallows as well. Am I wrong?

As far as me going to Washington, I fail to see why I would have to make the trip. I am not one of the people that feels it is a fact that Obama does not belong in office for being foreign born or half British. Those are the people sitting smugly at their computers pronouncing on ATS that Obama should be hung for treason all while they are apparently harboring a criminal by not acting on the knowledge. Get it?

If it would help though, I would make the trip. Hey, if someone could prove to me it was worth believing, I would lead the pack. Not one of the stories has worked and no new ones are. But if I see people sticking to their constitution and actively working to remove a traitor from office then I might be inclined to think they actually know something.

Hm. So far nothing from the birthers. A bit disappointing, actually.

Originally posted by Alora
Hm. So far nothing from the birthers. A bit disappointing, actually.

well it would appear. Though I'd call it segregation, as theres threads "birthers" are probably chatting in now.. Though I'm open to suggestion still so what am I? Naive?

reply to post by SaturnFX


Welfare

The rest of the Constitution outlines how this is to be done. Government can only operate within the margin of the powers granted to them by the Constitution.

Tranquility

Providing for the common defense and keeping the peace is most definitely the job of government.

Liberty

It is their job to enforce contracts, respect and protect property rights, and protect the individual and general civil rights of the people. The government over the last 70 years or so has been slowly falling short of that to the extent that today it is more visible than ever, and really starting to scare people. With good reason, as history tends to speak for itself.

Perhaps you should read everything the founders wrote and not just the Constitution. Because in those original words lie the original intent. The further we get away from original intent, the more this country starts to look like every other place on earth, and quite frankly-I don't want the US to be like the EU.

Nice taking the founders out of context to make a ridiculous assertion that the founders would be against the Tea Party..

Funny. Really.

reply to post by Curiousisall

Agreed, on all points but there is the problem, and it is a problem, of dealing with the entire road of events leading to today, starting with the senate seat, the run as a candidate, all the possible opportunities that his challengers had to use any information like this against him, the actual election and the term so far in office.
Plenty of hurdles, plenty of mountains to try and level, all asking for and requiring enormous amounts of energy and co-operation from the public and most importantly our congress, all of whom through all of this time have not shown even a close 1/10 interest in actual participation, and moving forward will show even less interest.
It is now to the point that questioning this issue will have you immediately classified as a radical or idiot or troublemaker and you will not garner any support from anyone in a position of influence or power because they need to keep their carpet clean and image shiny for the next election cycle, and the media would have a field day with any individual or group as they tried to launch this, (it would be silenced or ridiculed) or promote it advancely (it would destroy political careers) as no politician would come close to it.
The best and most I can see happening is looking forward, making changes so as this situation not be allowed to happen again.
As far as repair of this one....isn't going to happen.

BUT, (as I thought more on this)
IF Obama wanted to put an end to all speculation he could just step up, and with some form of clarity and assertiveness, address it, present it, provide all these forms or whatever was needed to put this limping issue to rest, maybe actually attack it head on, kind of like an old school dinosaur man would do.
Maybe I should change my name to dinosaurman.

reply to post by HappilyEverAfter


I am afraid you seem to have completely missed the point here. Discussing what Obama could do to put this to rest is something for a birther thread. This is not a birther thread. You have expressed your opinion and I appreciate that. Your last post leads me to believe you may not really understand. Maybe I have not been clear. At this point I am not really sure what to tell you other than what Obama can do to put this to rest is completely irrelevant to this thread. Thanks.

If all the birther rumours turn out to be total nonsense, all made up and created to disrupt the office of president, used to create dissent amongst the American people to prevent Obama from doing his job by creating doubt and distracting people from the issues that could have saved America.

Then does that mean those who started it all should be classed as traitors? and will be classed as traitors and outed for their campaign to the American people?

What I see is what the birther rumour starter was really after has been achieved with the recent election result, because now nothing will be done other than more War and more done to protect the corporate agenda, nothing at all to help the American people.

All I have seen is Republicans fighting for their party instead of fighting for their Country, its obvious there are those out there be it in Government or inside all the little anti Obama groups that sprouted, that will do anything, say anything, and create anything to prevent Obama from being President, even if he fixes the mess and turns the economy back on track, they will still do everything they can even if it isnt true to destroy him.

They were counting on people being ignorant to their claims, and it worked, people swallowed all of it, they wanted to swallow all of it, and by doing so, IMO they have handed the USA to the wrong people on a silver platter.

America is being torn into pieces by greed based on lies and ignorance, they even managed to shift the blame for the current mess on a man who wasn't even in office, while the real culprit's walked away scot free, and will remain free until people wake up.

Eventually the truth will come to light, and it wont be long before that happens, what do you do with that truth? do you look for those responsible for lying? or do they walk away as free as a bird with their pockets full?

The birther allegations IMO were always ridiculous, yet it didn't stop people from allowing it to continue, using it as their voice instead of the real reason they didn't want Obama as President, his place of birth will be proven one day when it suits Obama, and I have this sneaky suspicion it will be just before the 2012 election, when all this stuff raises its head again.

ATS has two years to head it off before it begins again, while those responsible are still celebrating their victory.

Obama is not a traitor, but I can point the finger at many who are supposed to serve America first, who are without a doubt the real traitors.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Welfare

The rest of the Constitution outlines how this is to be done. Government can only operate within the margin of the powers granted to them by the Constitution.

and the amendments to said consitution of course...curious, why would a perfect document need even a single amendment.
Liberties can be taken in the interpretation of the words, and if its not there...they simply add em through amendments passed.

Tranquility

Providing for the common defense and keeping the peace is most definitely the job of government.

repose: a disposition free from stress or emotion
tranquillity: an untroubled state; free from disturbances
tranquillity: a state of peace and quiet

You can argue that it is just a statement to not have things blowing up all the time, or you can likewise suggest this bit is saying no public demonstrations that stress people out, or hate speech, etc..hell, if it wasn't for the amendments, one could use this bit to ban all talk radio and broadcasted political speech.

Liberty

It is their job to enforce contracts, respect and protect property rights, and protect the individual and general civil rights of the people. The government over the last 70 years or so has been slowly falling short of that to the extent that today it is more visible than ever, and really starting to scare people. With good reason, as history tends to speak for itself.

Perhaps you should read everything the founders wrote and not just the Constitution. Because in those original words lie the original intent. The further we get away from original intent, the more this country starts to look like every other place on earth, and quite frankly-I don't want the US to be like the EU.

Nice taking the founders out of context to make a ridiculous assertion that the founders would be against the Tea Party..

Funny. Really.

edit on 7-11-2010 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

I will agree with the whole government is shoving its big fat nose in personal matters -far- more than they need be...but this is a double edged sword.
censorship, thoughts on gay marriage, tobacco restrictions, mary-j illegal, etc etc etc...some liberties have been removed through the years simply out of necessity (such as a factory dumping toxic sludge in a lake they own that will effect the greater water table, etc)...these things were not thought of back in "the day" though, and the founding fathers seen the constitution as a living document that will morph a bit throughout time to deal with issues in the future that were simply unforseeable in their time.

We can split hairs as to what is fine for the government can do and what it shouldn't do, but ultimately, the point was, would they be opposed to the tea party...

Well, I still think yes. Government is responsible for ensuring fair and free trade practices, and when a organization, such as the insurance companies, have the ability to compromise the safety and security...and welfare...of the citizens, regulation may be in order...and I think they would be disgusted at the consitution used as some sort of absolute bible or rulebook even when it damages the health of the country.

They were trying their best to ensure life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness...not trying to create a pseduo-religious document...I think all things need only refer to the 3 (life, liberty, happiness) and anything that passes simply see if it furthers this or not.

Let me guess...you disagree with me. Oh well, I guess we are allowed to disagree still...and that is a good sign.