Are We Dead Yet?

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Are we dead yet?

The main importance of the essay,Beyond the Pleasure Principle,by Freud, resides in the striking picture of human being, struggling between two opposing instincts or drives: Eros working for creativity, harmony, sexual connection, reproduction, and self-preservation; Thanatos for destruction, repetition, aggression, compulsion, and self-destruction. In sections IV and V, Freud posits that the process of creating living cells binds energy and imbues cells with an imbalance of energy. It is the pressure of matter to return to its original state which gives cells their quality of living. The process is analogous to the creation and exhaustion of a battery. It is this molecular diffusion which can be called a death-wish. The compulsion of the matter in cells to return to a diffuse, inanimate state is extended to the whole living organism. Thus, the psychological death-wish is a manifestation of an underlying physical compulsion that is present in every cell of the organism.

The Ego is a state of self created tension as Fear, that wants to be released and Death is that Release in Love/Bliss.

Originally posted by NWOPrimate

I'd have to admit that I seem to be looking for some kind of catastrophe to happen. That topic interests me greatly!

The behavior seems to be a common theme amongst many ... heck there is a whole bunch of folks who literally pray for the end of days.

What I find interesting about your post is that I never even considered that I might be searching for an end to my own personal dissatisfaction with the world thereby warping my own world view in a way that makes me expect and prepare for the end.

It is not uncommon that the answers we seek externally are already present internally. Of course it's a lot easier to hope for and expect something 'big' to happen than to do the considerable work involved in freeing one's self of the root and core issues within.

It's not really a 'problem' mind you, it's just more of an issue of missing the mark ... and a whole bunch of unnecessary threads exploring one's externalized expectations to remedy personal issues that don't require my death to be resolved.

reply to post by RRokkyy


much of the work of the great artist Paul Laffoley focuses on "thanataesthetics". this is a word he has made up which describes beauty in terms of death. in his concept: it is the dying-ness of things which causes us to see them as beautiful.....like a fading sunset.

a clear example of this phenomenon is the modern association of sex and vampires in the youth-oriented media. sucking the life out of someone (or) having the life sucked outta you is super sexy indeed!

i just spent the past few weeks gorging myself on horror films. i kept cheering "jason" along from one hypersexed teenager homicide to another. in terms of thanataesthetics: Jason is a god.


death is the ultimate high (drug). the only thing superior to existence is non-existence.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


there's too much to do to worry about stuff like that. I see all the threads people post about life ending a etc...I just want to know what's so bad about the life we're in? Sure it's hard, but I never learned anything the easy way; it had to be the hard way. I bet that's how everyone on planet Earth learns, the hard way. As far as us being dead I don't think that's the case there's life around us all the time...

Originally posted by agentofchaos
reply to post by schrodingers dog

 

As far as us being dead I don't think that's the case there's life around us all the time...

I know, the title was to convey the words those who embrace the attitude of wishing for 'something big and terrible' to happen are effectively saying.

reply to post by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Keeping in mind the general psychological penchants of us ATS members, does it not strike anyone else as odd that there is seemingly a significant amount of folks who embrace, even desire, catastrophes of gigantic proportions?

I don't find this particular mindset odd at all, especially not on ATS. I see it as a symptom of desperation, when an individual wants change so bad they are willing to risk death to achieve it. It is a rather sad reflection upon the world we live in.

What I do find strange is the way these individuals embrace and accept as evident such possibilities in the face of such flimsy evidence, I mean...The Simpsons? Really?

My personal philosophy is; when life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Not; when life gives you lemons, have a whine about it and hope for a nuclear war. Each to their own I suppose

Oh, and good luck to you and your Chelsea boys on Sunday...you're gonna need it! That's if we make it to Sunday, apparently some heavy shizzle if supposed to go down tomorrow

Sigh. We are covered up in this crap. Someone posted this morning they hope our economy goes bust because he's been saying it would, and his astute prediction would be "delicious".

I have given him a link to this thread. So you, yeah. This is about you.

Very good thread OP.
I have 2 things in mind as why this is happening.
First i have the feeling that some people confuse change with destruction.Yes i agree that the world is f@$ked up and we need a huge change,some might have in mind that a reboot of the human race due to destruction is the only way.Sometimes when i see the news i think "where is the asteroid when you need it....(if you think ATS is all doom and gloom,you definetely haven't seen the news in greek tv )

Secondly i think its fear.We live in strange times and people are really afraid of what is going to happen.Wars,plagues(you named them in your OP).Add to all that how much the internet helps to magnify everything and some personal paranoia,you have the end of the world once a week.
Some might think that if they know they might prevent it from happening or they might survive it.

The thing that intrigues me is that most people I see with this attitude seem to think they will be one of the survivors, fighting of hordes of Zombies / Military with one hand or somehow think that they no tricks to surviving disaster that others will not.

Too many videogames and movies.

reply to post by schrodingers dog

Explanation: S&F!

Uhmmm???

Keeping in mind the general psychological penchants of us ATS members, does it not strike anyone else as odd that there is seemingly a significant amount of folks who embrace, even desire, catastrophes of gigantic proportions?

No it doesn't strike me as odd, here is why... People are curious!

Well that's the impression I get!



Lyrics to the Mighty Bosstones: The Impression That I Get!....


Have you ever been close to tragedy, or been close to folks who have
Have you ever felt a pain so powerful, so heavy you collapse

No...well...I never had to knock on wood
But I know someone who has
Which makes me wonder if i could,
It makes me wonder if I
Never had to knock on wood
And I'm glad I haven't yet
Because I'm sure it isn't good
That's the impression that I get

Have you ever had the odds stacked up so high
You need a strength most don't possess
Or has it ever came down to do or die, you've got to rise above the rest

Ohhhhhh, never had to knock on wood
But I know someone who has
Which makes me wonder if i could,
It makes me wonder if I
Never had to knock on wood
And I'm glad I haven't yet
Because I'm sure it isn't good
That's the impression that I get

I'm not a coward, I've just never been tested
I'd like to think that if I was I would pass
Look at the tested and think there but for the grace go I
'might be a coward I'm afraid of what I might find out

Never had to knock on wood
But I know someone who has
Which makes me wonder if i could,
It makes me wonder if I
Never had to knock on wood
And I'm glad I haven't yet
Because I'm sure it isn't good
That's the impression that I get

Never had, I better knock on wood
Cause I know someone who has, it makes me wonder if I could
It makes me wonder if I...never had, I better knock on wood
Cause I'm sure it isn't good, and I'm glad I haven't yet
That's the impression that I get

Personal Disclosure: And besides that philosophical BS... Here is really why...

Big News: AboveTopSecret.com is 1,693! (by SkepticOverlord) [ATS]

Note: the picture and quote below were sourced directly from SkepticOverlord's OP to the above linked thread!

This is an incredible validation that the combined efforts of us (ATS staff) doing our best to ensure civility and decorum, and you (our members) are doing your best to to fill the information voids of mainstream media with compelling content. It's also a clear fulfillment of our continuing promise that AboveTopSecret.com will work hard to ensure the world notices what our members post, as clearly you're being noticed.

Make no mistake, a user-generated "alternative topics" website such as us beating out popular online destinations such as Fox Sports, BBC.com (in US traffic), Technorati and The Smoking gun is a stunning accomplishment. More and more people are discovering your opinions, ideas, and alternative take on mainstream news and information. And that is why we do what we do.

P.S. Next time you can name me personally as an example of this OK, as I myself can provide several posts [from recently even] that can confirm me as cleary one of these members... (sourced from your OP SD)

There's a lot of "if my life sucks, let the end come and take not only me but all the other mean people as well" going on. The "see I told you guys this would happen" thing is also there.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Hi folks,

This topic is one that I've wanted to discuss for a long time and for some reason always forget to until something happens to make the behavior overtly noticeable ... as such is the case again these last couple of days, I thought it as good a time as any to thread it.

The question I'm putting forth is truly based on a general confusion and bemusement on my part, as such, I am seeking your input and observations. It is noted that I am perpetually and generally in a state of relative confusion thus this condition is nothing new ... still, I will put forth the question and see if relative relief is forthcoming.

Keeping in mind the general psychological penchants of us ATS members, does it not strike anyone else as odd that there is seemingly a significant amount of folks who embrace, even desire, catastrophes of gigantic proportions?

It seems, especially on ATS and related sites, that for many big kabooms cannot come soon enough.

Be they biblical, volcanoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, comets/asteroids, pandemics, economic collapse, viruses, alien attack, wars, 2012, just to name a few.

Doomsday psychology of course is nothing new, a lot of it often seemingly based on a person's general unhappiness with one's current state and seeking relief via some sort of transformational event that would presumably provide them with some yet to be identified remedy to a personal problem they are not willing to face. There's a lot of "if my life sucks, let the end come and take not only me but all the other mean people as well" going on. The "see I told you guys this would happen" thing is also there. Still, as valid as those shrink based explanations may be for some they do not seem to account for the totality of this behavior.

If you have been on ATS for a little while you will notice that some of our longest and most participated in threads are based on this premise. Not only that, but every time another such potential catastrophe has a chance to manifest many run around like giddy schoolgirls who just discovered that Justin Timberlake might crash our prom. (is he still famous?)

I dunno ... all kidding aside, whenever I observe this behavior I simply can neither understand or relate to it.

It's as if those who feel that way do not process, other than as a faraway abstraction, the fact that should any of these things ever happen, the degree of pain, suffering, and misery they would be to those who are caught up in it.

I'm trying not to be judgmental of it, but the behavior does seem to have a rather heavy degree of cruelty and apathy towards one's follow man built into it. It seems, at least on the surface, to be rather self-centered and dark.

Anyhoot, I hope no one who stares at Richter scales and NEOs all day long in grand anticipation gets mad at me for asking ... I'm just trying to understand the root cause of this behavior.

Cheers!

edit on 25 Oct 2010 by schrodingers dog because: spelling and syntaxageddon

I completely agree with your views here.

I too have pondered the same thing, and have worded it in a similar manner that you did.

You explained the behavior and the probably cause, but i think beyond that theres a great deal of egotism. There are those who are unhappy with their life, or are facing a problem so they completely suppress or ignore there actual problem while convincing themselves of the urgency of 'an end time scenario'. Everyone around them is sucked into this panic "lets prepare mode" even if they think this person is paranoid.

Other than people like that, there are those who are completely absorbed in the conspiracy world. Im not gonna criticize any indivudal person, but there are many who believe the weirdest and most illogical things, that if they actually looked at it with a critical, scientific eye, they would realise its not intelligent or wise to invest their faith in something that isnt very probable. These sort of people, like all people, get tricked by their ego. Consciously, theres all sorts of rationalizations for why they believe what they do. "its important". But beneath all that 'logic', theres an egotistical desire to be right, and to be able to show others how theyre right. This is common to all people, except in some its mote pronounced and less checked by a sense of truth and humility.

I think the best way to find balance in 'conspiratorial' views is not to make it your life. People who live around these subjects are almost certainly always wrong. Theres a fanaticism and Fatalism in their personality, and they want to enter a dystopian world, because their lives are boring and this change would be entertaining, - in the beginning. Like you said, that feeling would quickly dissolve and than we'd all experience the real horrors and difficulties of living though economic times. We should all very much not want any change in our quality of living.

But to those with a spiritual sense, i find they have more balanced and conservative views. I for instance dont subsribe to many theories that arent directly provable. I do believe 9/11 was engineered and i do believe no doubt that there is an elitist class, who are mystics, who have a design for the world which accords with their philosophical/metaphysical beliefs. This is all very rational. Theres no aliens, reptilians, Niburu. Its just common people with a common belief system who are acting out platos ideal, of a philosopher class which makes decisions for society at large. Its not right, but this is how our societies have worked for thousands of years.

I used to believe alot, but thank G-d i have changed and am much more reserved with what i lend my belief or attentiob towards. This is because, mainly, of the spiritual work ive put myself through. I really want to be exact with myself, and truthful, and i dont want to decieve myself in any way. So with predictions, i dont really pay attention anymore. I read them and i can find them entertaining or interesting, but i reserve judgement. And i dont 'hold on to it' in order so i can brag to someone about it. Thats always the motivating factor when people believe predictions or look for proof of a future terrorist attack, even if theyve been proven wrong before. They want to be the one "who called it". I feel this urge to, but i suppress it/ignore it.

Anyways, good thread. Its important to talk about these sort of things.

i'd personally rather have chaos and riots and WW3 than go to work 9-5 the rest of my life. i'm already dead if thats the case

A lot of times when I'm on a hallucinogen i get the feeling that I'm already dead. Truthfully it's a wonderful feeling. It's incredibly liberating, but that could be the drugs. It reminds me of Plato's Apology and what Socrates had to say about death. Nobody knows what happens when you die, who is to say death is not a good thing? It is however very disturbing to see this doomsday trend; I remember when ATS used to have intelligent well thought out posts and not predictions galore. I think I might go visit the underworld today.

Originally posted by dannyfal
i'd personally rather have chaos and riots and WW3 than go to work 9-5 the rest of my life. i'm already dead if thats the case

No you wouldnt.

Youd prefer to have running water, thats somewhat clean, a toilet to use, and toilet paper, along with 3 meals a day. TV, internet and other things. Talk about being ungreatful.

The above doesnt exist in "chaos and riots and WW3"

reply to post by dontreally


with all do respect, that may be the way YOU feel. not knowing anything about me i don't see how you can come to that conclusion

Originally posted by dannyfal
reply to post by dontreally

 

with all do respect, that may be the way YOU feel. not knowing anything about me i don't see how you can come to that conclusion

So, you dont like wiping your ass with toilet paper? You'd be surprised how many people dont have that privelege.

Its not a matter of how one feels. Its a matter of facts, which in turn should dictate your feelings (that is, if you allow your mind to rule over your heart) There are goods we use everyday that without them, would make life very uncomfortable. Like toilet paper, hot water, a towel to dry myself off after the shower. Tooth paste to clean my teeth. soap to wash my body, shampoo and conditioner for my hair. Epson Salt to sooth my sore body during a bath. Do you like sleeping in a comfortable bed? with central heating when its cold? Do you have clean plates, cups, spoons etc to eat your meals with? And than add the entertainment pleasure TV and the internet gives you?

Do you not take advantage of the above benefits?(aside from the espon salt)

None of these things exist in a borken world economy and a atmosphere of chaos.On the contrary, theres alot of being pushed around by police state thugs and being used as forced labor. In abominable living conditions.

You should really take to heart how fortunate yuo are.

reply to post by dontreally


i understand what you are saying, but you are assuming 2 things
1)i do not appreciate these commodities you speak of
2)that i would be less happy if these commodities were taken away

like i said... you know nothing about me to be making these assumptions.

for all you know i spend half of my year in the amazon living with the local tribes without any of these amenities

i see what you are saying tho, so please try and understand where i am coming from

there are pros and cons to both scenarios (the way things are vs. complete chaos)

i would rather endure the uncomfortable scenario of not having tv, running water, toilet paper, etc. if it means i have a chance of getting out of the social slavery i currently live in. and before you say that i'm not socially enslaved, thats subjective.

i hope that makes sense, but what i'm saying is just cause you can't handle complete societal breakdown does not mean that others cannot

Originally posted by dannyfal
reply to post by dontreally

 

i understand what you are saying, but you are assuming 2 things
1)i do not appreciate these commodities you speak of
2)that i would be less happy if these commodities were taken away

like i said... you know nothing about me to be making these assumptions.

for all you know i spend half of my year in the amazon living with the local tribes without any of these amenities

i see what you are saying tho, so please try and understand where i am coming from

there are pros and cons to both scenarios (the way things are vs. complete chaos)

i would rather endure the uncomfortable scenario of not having tv, running water, toilet paper, etc. if it means i have a chance of getting out of the social slavery i currently live in. and before you say that i'm not socially enslaved, thats subjective.

i hope that makes sense, but what i'm saying is just cause you can't handle complete societal breakdown does not mean that others cannot

Who says i couldnt handle it? Im a very spiritual person who could really live with, or without the above ammenities.

But nonethless, i APPRECIATE them. I see them as contributing to the comfort of my life, and so i try to be very greatful for them. This i think is the proper attitude to take. To appreciate something, but not rely on the said thing. I can live with or without them, but with them why would i arrogantly rebuff such kindness from the creator by priding myself on my ability to 'cope without it'?

So i think there might by a tinge of arrogance to this attitude of yours.

Are we enslaved to the social system? Yes. We are. Our BODIES are enslaved, but not our minds. No one who is self aware can be enslaved. He like all people will have to abide by the laws of the society he lives in, regardless of how unjust and exploitive they can be. But nonetheless, this servitude is definitely preferable to living in china or a less economically prosperous country. Youre focusing way too much on the negative, which embitters your life, instead of focusing on the good, which would help you live a more fruitful and pleasant existence.

also, its very selfish to want 'chaos' when that would mean the deaths of millions of people. What about all those people who are sick, who need medications? So they should just die? And what about all those - a 3rd of the population, on psychotropic drugs. Theyd go mad without their medications. And than you have old people, who need their government support, hospitals, schools. Why would you wish for such evil in the world to make your situation more comfortable?

reply to post by dontreally


honestly, you're right. its a pretty selfish point of view. nonetheless i think its a view that myself and many others hold (wanting chaos). i'm not saying its the correct way to go about life but this is just one of many answers to the OP's question.

but yea your right a lot of people would die and stuff, i personally don't see death as a bad thing. sometimes a lot of bad has to happen for a greater good. if i have to give up toilet paper and tv so future generations live in a less materialistic fashion than so be it.

but again, your right, i'm wrong. i know ATS isn't used to that lol but your argument was formulated too well to refute

reply to post by dontreally


but i'm bored at work so i'll argue against some of the things u said anyway lol. sorry

i do find most to be mentally enslaved... even those evolved spiritually. spending half of my waking hours in an office pays its toll on me mentally and spiritually. it takes the human quality out of you. couple that with the retarded money system we have in place and it all just seems so... pointless

a lot of my negativity stems from the lifestyle we are born into in the western world. we aren't really allowed to think for ourselves as children, and most of what u pick up as an adolescent is from other peers. i have a hard time explaining things so i'll put it in a different way. we are led to have a fixed belief system (whatever it may be) which automatically closes us off to other ways of thinking. for example, we are force fed that science is the end of all truth and that there are no other possibilities. so as shamans in remote locations all around the world have vast amounts of knowledge that can help the western world, we turn a blind eye simply because of how we were taught in schools (ultimately). i'm sorry if my explanation is retarded lol.

I'm one of these people you speak of. So maybe getting into my head will give you some insight:

First of all, I have a tremendous amount of anger built in me. I tend to alternate between thoughts of extreme hatred for this planet, to loving every last person on this planet and understanding them. As soon as I start understanding them, someone reminds me of just how evil this planet can be. At this point, almost traumatic memories come flooding back of all the bastards that have mistreated in my life. For example, I remember how my long time friends told me they hated me and couldn't stand me and never wanted to see me again. I remember how cruel and evil people were towards one of my friends, who was so innocent it was pathetic. Bullies would torture him mentally everyday and I would be physically assaulted if I said anything about it. I had to watch the nicest person in the world turn into a hopeless druggy.

I went along with it, I didn't care anymore... What was there to care about. There is nothing complex about this existence, nothing but pain and misery. All for what? For nothing, that's what. We die and then that's it. We are some cosmic joke. This joke is far beyond the point of getting old. Once I started delving into the aspects of my mind, I started to see how it was all just a sham. Everything was just a program written by the gods to satisfy their egos. There was no love and compassion in the grand scheme, only in the small scheme. There is no purpose, nothing. Only a bunch of fools that inhabit this Earth. Life is bull#.

Then I realize, or I guess god's programming realizes that this is no way to live. Life is beautiful, I just need to open up my eyes so to speak and see the good in people. Live life to the fullest. Why... because my emotions tell me to. I don't care. Whatever. BOOM! shattered by some asshole that chooses to mentally abuse me. Hate builds up in me and I end up back where I started.