Time for revolution? Really? Where should we draw the lines?

Originally posted by whatukno
Wouldn't a violent revolution who's goal it is to remove the Constitutionally elected government of the United States count as war against the United States?

No, because the government system has been systematically
disassembled til it no longer resembles the US that was
founded in 1776. What we have now is a tyrannical
regime who got into office by political strategist
like Karl Rove and Rahm Emanuel who rigged
voting machines to render a winner who was not
legally elected. Then they are NOT constitutionally
elected. It's a war on tyranny, not the US.

reply to post by boondock-saint


You can't shoot tyranny Boondock Saint. You just can't. Go ahead and try, you cannot shoot tyranny.

True you cannot shoot tyranny, but there's more than one way to skin a nazi. What you can't destroy by fire, you can render irrelevant by maneuver.

reply to post by BlackOps719


I'm not saying violence didn't happen in the civil rights movement and in S. Africa, but it wasn't violence that achieved results. It was the nonviolent movements that won the day and not the groups advocating violence. It wasn't just the economy that caused the collapse of the USSR. The nonviolent movements in Poland and Czechoslovakia brought communism to an end History of Solidarity
Czechoslovakia's nonviolent movment

It's easy to think that nonviolence can't work, but history shows it is a powerful and effective force.

reply to post by The Vagabond

What you can't destroy by fire, you can render irrelevant by maneuver.

Yes that is true, you can render tyranny irrelevant. And to do that everyone must be involved in the process of making sure that tyranny is always irrelevant.

Quick aside, just wanted to offer a public apology to Sremmos. I failed to make the intent of something I said clear and subsequently sremmos added a retraction to one of his posts, which in point of fact was a fine post. Anyhow, good will all around, carry on.

reply to post by The Vagabond


A revolution to bring a better and more just system.

A system of governance where individuals choose their own government and govern their own affairs.

A system which gives only minimum power to the government. The government is only suppose to govern the affairs of individuals, Affairs are agreements made between individuals and governments.

I think the world needs to realize, that the elite is trying to control us in masses, by forcing us to choose one representative as a group, where the majority wins. If we choose a representative, the elite can easily control that one person, rather than controlling all of us.

Everyone should have the right to live how ever he/she wants to live. The majority/minority is BS freedom they try to feed us, and most undoubtedly have swallowed this BS.

If I want to poke someone's eye out for stealing my property, then let it be, but I have to make the agreement with that person, that if he/she steals my property then the punishment should be poking his/her eye out. Then me and him/her choose a government we trust, to enforce this agreement, and to implement the punishment.

reply to post by whatukno


Not if the majority want it. If the majority of the people feel that their best interest are not being put first. byby then the next group that comes in knows that they better do their job or the same thing will happen to them.

Just my opinion, but I believe we are already in a massive cultural revolution, and all the division and manipulation is being vetted by a growing number of humans(ity). Thanks to the internet and alternative media people are becoming more and more politically aware everyday(Zbignew Brzeninski); whether they know it or not. As John Perkins says, the most powerful tool we have is voting with our dollars, and a highly motivated populace can make dramatic changes with the power of the political zeitgeist using this tool. Look how fast the cult of Obama disintegrated? I think massive changes are taking place everyday, but because we're in the midst of it, it feels slow and demoralizing for those who are passionately active. And the 'shamestream' media doesn't help by selling fear and lies on a daily basis. I think the only people who are getting geared up for a violent revolution,for the most part, are weakminded extremists who think that by perpetuating humanities problems they can solve them- Quite frankly I am sick of the groups who use prophecy to outline our destiny as in my mind- that is a blatant scapegoat for inaction. To use the tired and overused quote of Ghandi, 'we must BECOME the change we want to see'.

reply to post by whatukno

Constitutionally elected government

Are they really? We are not able or worthy of asking! Remember.

Revolution

My country wages war, live on my T.V.
Helplessly I watch, people dying without need.
They try to sell us war as the solution.
How many more must die, to satisfy their greed?
Silently I hope for revolution.

My country passes laws no one’s even read.
Each one a new pronouncement, liberty is dead,
crushed beneath the weight of institution.
How can I believe a single word they’ve said?
Tirelessly I wait for revolution.

My country collects tax, with total disregard.
Carelessly it’s wasted on bureaucratic lard
and corporate bailout distribution.
Our children's future irrevocably scarred.
Hopelessly I pray for revolution.

My country watches its people lose their homes
while it provides the banks with trillion dollar loans.
Citizens bereft of restitution.
What’s a man to do, when they’ve taken all he owns?
Violently I call for revolution.

My country lost its way, its’ leaders are corrupt,
leaving their people oppressed, homeless and bankrupt.
No hope of a peaceful resolution.
Even if it means my life I must offer up.
With my words I start the revolution.

by Me

reply to post by wisintel


Great poem but I'm sorry sir words alone don't start revolutions. Actions are necessary. Strong actions by a large body of people.

I forgot who posted it earlier but yeah if everyone in america stopped voting, paying taxes and going to their jobs (only those that don't help the general population should stop going to work i.e cubicle workers who crunch numbers. Farmers need to stay on-board as well as power plant workers, water companies and the like) the gov't would be rendered powerless.

how are you going to overthrow a government thats been hijacked by 2 political parties who have a strangle hold on the presidency and the senate. a true revolution only has to dismantle these two cesspools from which they replenish their stocks. that's why the teaparty is such a threat and the republicans are trying to inflitrate and neutralize them.

the republicans and the democrats apply the enemy of my enemy is my friend doctrine when i comes to outsiders destabilizing the status quo.

reply to post by The Vagabond


Thank you for your concise and thought-through post. What the people bleating "revolution revolution" don't realize is that a justification for revolution does NOT exist when someone you don't prefer to be elected is. A justification for revolution is not keeping social security or the department of education. A justification for revolution is not trying to improve our nation's health care system, no matter how misguided you believed that to be.

Barack Obama campaigned on health care reform--he got elected based on his campaign promises--and we got health care reford (which is MUCH watered down than from his campaign platform in 08), and this is why I fail to have any sympathy for these people who scream about how he is "destroying America via health care", when he went across the country for an entire year TELLING PEOPLE HE WAS GOING TO REFORM HEALTH CARE.

Alot of the keyboard jockeys on here are itching for a revolution or societal breakdown because they believe they can handle it, and will come out of it on top somehow as power players in a new Mad-Max esque world without government. I'd love to see their reactions when their loved ones are killed in this civil war--hundreds of thousands of lives ripped apart, families torn down the middle--and why? Because of health care reform? There are no FEMA death camps, NWO, etc out there, why in the hell would an American President forfiet his own nation's soverienty? It doesn't make sense and never will.

I agree that now is the time for a revolution. But no matter how many times I think about it, I can't see any good possibility coming from a revolution built for violence. Many lives are going to get taken because of. So I've also thought of other scenarios where it would be possible to wake people up. I think that the most effective way to take down and organized mafia, is to join the ranks and fight from the inside. I also think that another effective tool would be to wipe out most of the mass mind-controlling powers such as tv. Just some thoughts.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


IMO, nukes are the least of my concerns.. if a state with nukes actually did secede from the Union the Feds would get their hands on it first.. and the ones they couldn't get would be pretty much useless without the Airforce to take care of it (nukes actually require a lot of maintenance) or codes/ability to launch it....

I also highly doubt the Feds would ever abandon their bases...

I assure you, the next "civil war" / "revolution" (same thing depending on the outcome?) .. will be entirely guerrilla.

I think we will see a Basque/IRA type insurgency long before a conventional war between states.

reply to post by wisintel


You deserve a thousand stars my friend.. excellent post.


reply to post by jacktherer



You are very wrong.. it takes many words to inspire action, and action brings about revolution, regardless of it's form .. be it peaceful or violent.. without a cause to rally behind and something to inspire, a hope for change is impossible.