Lack of belief in gods - can there be a balance?

Hello everyone, There's a short version at the end.

A person whom I subscribe to on YouTube by the name of QualiaSoup has posted a new video about the lack of beliefs in gods and how it can be interpreted by those who hold a belief with one, or many, gods.

His videos are well paced and cover a lot of ground. In this case it's 10 minutes and focusses purely on the differing mindsets of people who may consider themselves or others as following into either category.

If you have time have a look.



As an atheist myself I try not not discuss people's beliefs regarding the meaning of existence - as I have no idea if there even is one ever mind what it could be and I certainly don't wish to insult someone by saying things which counter a belief which may be well ingrained on their family or heritage for generations. That said there are many people I know who can also hold their deeply spiritual beliefs and not provoke any reaction from those who share different opinions from them.

Composure seems to be something we, as a group of friends, are good at on an individual level.

When the anonymity of the internet takes it's oily grip upon people though, including me, sometimes we start to preach our outlooks as facts or, pardon the irony, gospel truth.

I'm wondering if you think it's possible that people of different beliefs can live in harmony with each other?

I find I cannot let someone I know to be a liar and whose pursuing their own financial well being through taking advantage of others (be it UFOs, vibrations, channelled spirits) be allowed to preach without scrutiny. The idea being they eventually show themselves to be charlatans and lose their potential income base.

That said though I have no belief in any of the religions of the world and barring the one I grew up with don't feel comfortable having a go at them beyond the academic basis of their believing in a supreme entity (or entities). I know there are many people who are tied right into their religions and give it a value higher than anything else. I'm not talking about ignorant fundamentalists who would kill others in the name of their religion. I'm talking about decent people who get on fine and dandy with the world around them and make their communities happier, and better, places. I don't want to insult somebody who, regardless of their personal choice to believe, is someone I consider to be a great person.

Somehow something which I see as an elusive comforter to those unwilling, unable or happy not to think about an atheistic outlook is allowed to be taught to children, have laws set up by it and be taken into other communities and taught as truth. It's taking that difference in outlook and applying it on a macro level.

Now if you even take the atheistic outlook away - you still have people celebrating their gods in ways that offend, insult or just differ on a level which could be seen as wrong. Those with 'faith' will wish for everyone to know their happiness. And sadly there are those with opposing faiths who will be at loggerheads when it comes to a potential compromise on certain things.

Short Version

Were it up to me all religion would stop being taught and worshipped and taken into account for every day activities. Obviously while this might seem like a happy notion to me I'd be stripped people of their heritage, their identity and most importantly their love for their god. So I agree to allow for religion and keep my nose out of it as it means a lot to people I value. What of these religions though? Do they keep out of the way of each other or indeed common sense? Will there ever be a time when, for example and it's not finger pointing on purpose, creationist will teach creationism at home or in the temple and let schools teach evolution? Will Muslims allow for a naked beach for some humanists in a sacred country of theirs? Will a Jehovah Witness community allow for a child to be operated upon when the surgery is required to save their lives?

These little differences are pillars of these belief systems and will eventually meet.

So is it possible for everyone of every outlook regarding existence and the potential for a god to live in harmony?

Your thoughts please and I do apologise for mentioning three specific belief groups - I only used them as examples of where differing beliefs can clash. Every outlook has things about it which can be applied so it's not intended to be focussed on those beliefs or anyone who follows them.

Thanks for reading!

-m0r

reply to post by m0r1arty


Im kinda like you on religion. I have no problem with people believing what they want, its their choice. I dont like it when people try to preach to me and tell me that im wrong for holding the beliefs i hold.

Take the word "Athiest" for example. That to me says that ive thought about it and decided not to believe in God. Making out like there is a God and ive just chose not to believe it. So this is one label that i dont except.

Sometimes i wonder why people feel such a strong need label both themselves and others anyways. You are who you are. Regardless of what religous ideology you choose, you cant escape the fact that your exactly the same as everyone else. No better, no worse.

So if we were ever to live in harmony i think remembering this foremost would be a great start. We need to let go of our ego's and just be!

I dont see what difference it makes what a person believes so long as they are not attempting to force someone else to believe it either.
I wish people were more cordial in the sense that when one states what they believe and why they choose to believe it they are not chastised for it.
Unfortunately this seems to be the great crux of the issue. I have often wondered if Atheist find the word atheist to be as derogatory as the term Christian. Both carry some connotations that are negative due to past events when both sides have conflicted. Perhaps it's time to let by gones be by gones.

Sadly there are extremists in every belief system. Anything that people do has someone who is over the top.
The hobby train collector who dresses like an engineer in his basement while he plays with his toy trains on some 150,000 dollar diorama all of which was paid for by his retirement fund. LOL

Thats just one example.

Why are you so keen to tip-toe around the fact that religious people, essentially by definition, are deluded people? Religious belief is essentially "belief in propositions without sufficient (or in the face of contradictory) evidence". This encompasses more than just followers of traditional religions. This includes people who believe in the efficacy of homeopathic remedies, paranormal phenomena, extraterrestrials and Reptilians, crystal energy, dowsing, and all manner of things that we obviously know is just crap.

Originally posted by m0r1arty

I'm wondering if you think it's possible that people of different beliefs can live in harmony with each other?

It depends on the nature of those beliefs - some beliefs are more benign than others. Compare the following two:
1) Elvis Presley is still alive.
2) Muslims must strive for dominance in the world because Allah commands it.

Religious beliefs inevitably encroach upon well-established scientific facts. For example, the debacle of trying to teach creationism alongside evolution in American public schools.

Originally posted by m0r1arty
That said though I have no belief in any of the religions of the world and barring the one I grew up with don't feel comfortable having a go at them beyond the academic basis of their believing in a supreme entity (or entities). I know there are many people who are tied right into their religions and give it a value higher than anything else. I'm not talking about ignorant fundamentalists who would kill others in the name of their religion. I'm talking about decent people who get on fine and dandy with the world around them and make their communities happier, and better, places. I don't want to insult somebody who, regardless of their personal choice to believe, is someone I consider to be a great person.

You mischaracterize fundamentalists as people who are willing to kill for their religions. That is not necessarily the case - fundamentalists are simply the more responsible adherents of a religion who have taken the time to read their respective holy books and follow it as closely as they can. Fundamentalism does not in itself imply a propensity for violence. For example, a fundamentalist Jain is strictly nonviolent - his creed forbids any violence even against insects. A fundamentalist Muslim, on the other hand, is encouraged to overt hostile acts against nonbelievers and women in general. The specific religion dictates the violence - fundamentalism is simply the strict adherence to the religion.

Originally posted by m0r1arty
So is it possible for everyone of every outlook regarding existence and the potential for a god to live in harmony?

With respect to different religions - probably not. You have only to examine Islam closely to see that it is intolerant of all other belief systems.

I suggest you read "The End of Faith" by Sam Harris.

reply to post by imnotbncre8ive


Out of curiosity, NOT to start an argument.
I would seriously like to know what you think we should do to eliminate religion altogether.
I don't see how it can be done but I like to hear your views on it. Scientifically speaking what can be done to squelch the delusion?

I'm not being sarcastic, genuinely interested.

You can never get a fix on God ...my wife died of cancer last may and I hope I see her again. We were together for many years. I myself have always been a "I can't believe it unless I see It"

I miss Julie so much.

I just do not know.

I still Love her so.

reply to post by imnotbncre8ive


I dont think you can compare those who believe in the paranormal, extraterrestrials, or homeopathic remedies to those who practice religion.

For a start theres no texts that proclaim that you must believe in any of the above or face some kind of spiritual penalty. So its unfair to try and paint them as the same. People tend to believe in the paranormal, or extra terestrials either through experinces or personal proof of some kind. We could argue till the cows come home about the validity of this proof, but theres more substance to it than there ever has been to prove the existance of a God.

As for Science. Its usualy science that leads people in to these fields and at least they make an attempt to prove it through scientific methods. Religions rarely offer any proof what so ever so i think your being a bit close minded there.

I completely agree with you on Fundamentalism. Fundamentalism does'nt neccisarily mean violence, although the media is probably responsable for people thinking that way.

Peace.