Strictly for those who knelt where Hiram knelt

reply to post by abcddcba


This is a weak example, but one none the less, If a family traditionally celebrates Christmas, and all the kids still believe in Santa Clause, what kind of asshole would hurt the kids feelings by telling them there's no such thing. What fun is it in ruining a kids exspectation that santas gonna crawl his fat ass down a small tube and bring you gifts.
Whats the point in telling potential candidates of masonry all the ins and outs of degree work before they even come to the lodge, its pointless. And like the brother said before, I will not tell you my secrets simply because I made a promise not to. Just like I promised my mother and my sisters I would not tell my 5 and 6 and 1 year old neices that santa, the easter bunny and the tooth fairy is all a load of #.

Masonry is much like any other tradition of Initiation. Within any tradition of Initiation there is some knowledge, process, principle, concept, practice, etc. This package of information if you will, is typically what is regarded as "a secret" or "a mystery".

The Pilot analogy that was used earlier is actually pretty good. The Initiates appreciate that the package of information or whatever only becomes useful if you are familiar with the prerequisite information. Imagine being accepted into flight school and then immediately being given the final test. It would look like complete nonsense to you, a cipher. This is why you start at level one and gradually prove yourself through "tests", gradually working your way up to higher levels.

With enough investigation you CAN find the information regarding all the levels of Masonry, but it is going to be a cipher to you unless you have EXPERIENCED the lessons taught and not just read them.

Masonry, just like any other Initiation tradition, is a path for ones self. A path of enlightenment and a path of growth. You only receive the merits of any path by following that path, not by merely knowing of its existence.

This is why there are "secrets". One of the most important steps in these paths is that of discovery. Things are kept "secret" because only a fraction of being enlightened or experiencing personal growth is knowing the final "secret" or knowing the "end of the path". The most important and enlightening aspect of a "mystery" is the path one takes in reaching the end goal, the process of discovery.

Initiation is laid out in degrees, secrets are formed so as to force individuals to embark upon a personal journey of discovery. The true reward of a journey is not the destination itself, but the adventure of getting there. The answers can not be known, they must be found by looking. Initiates appreciate this and appreciate that the process of initiation IS the process of seeking, therefore through initiation the secrets can be found.

We see examples of this on ATS all the time. So many people come on here wanting answers. They want proof they want to be told what the solution is. There are a ton of people on here that fit into that caste. At the same time, there are others on ATS that appreciate and enjoy the hunt. We know for one, that other peoples truths cannot be taken for granted and that we must come to our own conclusions and this comes from investigation. Second, we appreciate that so much more is learned by looking and searching, not just gazing upon. I want to come to my own conclusions and I can only do that by embarking upon the journey myself. Initiation is the same thing.

It is the same for all these people that come on here and say "what all the secrecy?" "if you arent up to something then just tell us the secrets" These people do not understand the necessity of personal discovery, the long appreciated traditions and principles of initiation.

The "Masonic Secrets" are devices of initiation themselves. The information held within these "secrets" is not necessarily the most important aspect. It is the aspect that they are "secret" that it is important. These "secrets" are not necessarily something that Freemasons care to keep disclosed. The information contained within them is completely benevolent and is available publicly. The "secrets" are an aspect of initiation and this is why they are regarded as "secrets". The "secrets" are meant to be a goal, another degree, something that the initiate works towards discovering. Through the process of discovery, investigation and initiation the secrets are "discovered" or rewarded.

"The secrets" are essentially just another badge that boy scouts can be awarded, something held as a merit that the initiate works towards. It signifies your progress.
"The secrets" are not exactly the same as degrees though as the secrets are more personal. You dont receive a badge for being elucidated to a secret, you dont brag about it, it is something you work towards for yourself and hold for yourself.

The use of secrets as a form of degree ties in to the following principle as well. The secrets and the policy of secrecy also works as a sort of screening process for a persons character."The secrets" are definitely publicly available and masons know this. So, why is it still important to them that they keep the secrets quiet? If a mason can not keep his mouth shut about information that is even publicly available than it truly does say something about his character. A policy of secrecy is an easy way of screening people who have weak characters absent of any dignity.

"the secrets" are publicly available. Why does it matter if Masons themselves have a policy of not talking about it? Go read a book if you are that concerned. Masons have a policy of secrecy because it is just a part of the game of initiation that they play. It really does not have any consequence to outsiders at all.

People want enemies. They need someone to point a finger at. Masonry does have some questionable and nefarious elements of its history and still does remain somewhat mysterious to the lay person. Masonry makes and easy target for their fingerpointing.

Originally posted by Brahmanite
Too Long to quote.

nice post. you know how much less conspiracy there would be if all the other masons simply said what you just wrote? the masonic secrets are all over and publicly available, even on the library of congress for all to see. yet no one will just say the secret parts of masonry are in the rituals and lessons. also why would i not be able to get the lessons being taught just by reading them? i know theres a reason for the degree, so you can experience it and get it to sink in better. but im sure it can be done without degree work you just wont have the badges and regalia. look at jesus.

@ network dude
you do not believe people are able to walk the path on their own without freemasonry? when i started learning what all the hoopla was i was a little disappointed, i was like meh ive been doing that all my life maybe i should just go buy myself a ring lol. but there is still more i want to learn but im always skeptical when theres a price attached.

Originally posted by SirKnightE
reply to post by abcddcba

 

This is a weak example, but one none the less, If a family traditionally celebrates Christmas, and all the kids still believe in Santa Clause, what kind of asshole would hurt the kids feelings by telling them there's no such thing. What fun is it in ruining a kids expectation that santa's gonna crawl his fat ass down a small tube and bring you gifts.

what fun is it in denying light and keeping one in darkness? power? maybe masonry isnt for you.

reply to post by abcddcba


Trust me any "light" you seek I am more than willing to share with you, The true light in masonry are not its so called secrets(hand shakes and passwords). It is the tenets that I live by that provide my light. Those 4 cardinal virtues, keep me within my bounds with my God and mankind. I'm pretty sure you already have the password of a 1st degree mason. But I promised I would not tell it to you unless you can prove that you are indeed a fellow mason. But If you would like to know how I apply the 24 inch guage to my daily life, I am more than willing to share that with you. It just might help you in the long run seperate your time spent here on ATS and the time you spend helping another person or showing praise to your deity. Ask and it will be given to you, Look for answers and they will be revealed to you. Knock at a lodge door and someone is sure to open it for you and you can have all the "secrets" you desire..... for a small fee ofcoarse

Originally posted by abcddcba

Originally posted by Brahmanite
Too Long to quote.

@ network dude
you do not believe people are able to walk the path on their own without freemasonry? when i started learning what all the hoopla was i was a little disappointed, i was like meh ive been doing that all my life maybe i should just go buy myself a ring lol. but there is still more i want to learn but im always skeptical when theres a price attached.

I actually have this debate daily with fellow masons. Alot of masons do fell some superiority because they know something the regular dude does not. There are problems within the craft as far as who is a real mason and who is not.( as far as affiliation and recognition) I have been saying some of these things since I was raised. I considered myself an upright man well before I became a mason. I am thankful for a father who kept a belt attached to my ass when I did stupid sh*t as kid. He kept the word of God in my mind and heart from the pulpit of the church he pastored. I served my country in the US Army did one tour in Iraq, and the most laws I have broken have been speeding and maybe an open container violation. I must admit that through masonry I even established a closer relationship with my God, and learned the importance of selflessness and helping others. You may have heard this before, but masonry takes good men and make them better. No one is telling you that you need masonry to lead a good life. We dont recruit. If people are so concerned of why we keep secrets, join and find out, or stop being nosey.

Originally posted by abcddcba
@ network dude
you do not believe people are able to walk the path on their own without freemasonry? when i started learning what all the hoopla was i was a little disappointed, i was like meh ive been doing that all my life maybe i should just go buy myself a ring lol. but there is still more i want to learn but im always skeptical when theres a price attached.

not at all. In fact masonry is only one path of many to reach the same goal. Everybody uses the term enlightenment, but that is what it really is. You are trying to better yourself and learn more about others. When you finally get the big picture, it's that every life is sacred, every person who should need your help deserves it, every sunset should be relished. You can find out any of these things on your own, or through another channel. But masonry is the path I chose. Or it chose me, I am not sure about that. And I personally don't feel any superiority over those who have not been through the degrees, but I do feel that by doing that I have an idea about what goes on in masonry and hate to be told that I don't. it shouldn't bother me, but it does. So when some basement dwelling zit faced 12 year old tries to explain the "high level mason" thing to me, I tend to snap and find new and exciting ways to make that person look like a dork. It's a fault I am working on.

reply to post by network dude


and that is the thing to me...i do not feel a need for masonic brotherhood in order to improve myself. I feel like I have a very good grip on much of what would come from that in the masonic teachings.

What i see as a potential benefit is exposure to people of a slightly higher caliber, philosophically, than the average person. And you don't often find too many thistles among the petunias.

Originally posted by abcddcba
yet no one will just say the secret parts of masonry are in the rituals and lessons.

The rituals and lessons are not secret. Certain aspects of the degrees are secret-candidate preperation, passwords, grips-but on the whole the majority of it is not. The lessons are the least secret of any part of Masonry and if you are so inclined you can search several thousand posts on this site where the tenets of Masonry; Faith, Hope, Charity, Brotherly Love, Truth, etc are discussed.

The 'secret parts' of Masonry are the grips, passwords and modes of recognition. But even these are all out in the public domain.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


and knowing what I do of you, I would be proud to call you brother weather you are a mason or not.

Originally posted by abcddcba
but why all the secrecy about everything else? i understand the reason for keeping the secrets of the signs and grips, but the rest doesnt make much sense. would it kill people to know most of them are "already masons"?

It's part of the mystique of the Lodge.

MOST lodges, well ..... I should like to think anyways.. try to only bring the highest caliber man into the folds of the Lodge. Part of this process, of ensuring only the ones who truly, absolutely, of their own free will and accord, want to be there is not giving them ANY information.

There are many men who when told they will be half naked walking in circles in a dark room blind folded with a rope around their neck with the only guidance being perhaps a man they've only had a few conversations with, all the while doing it in front of many men you've never even met before. Well.. many men shrink away at such a thing. In fact, there was just a thread recently about some guy who freaked out and refused to join because he just couldnt understand it.

But at the same time, a man who is so insistent on finding the TRUTH, by experiencing the UNKNOWN while putting a huge amount of faith in God and strangers.. that's the kind of person we want.

Without the Mystique, Freemasonry is just another dinner club.. and while you can argue it is anyways, unlike other clubs, our core membership takes the "secrecy" to heart, and don't flout the "secrets" even if really there are none -- you just don't talk about it.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
.........
But at the same time, a man who is so insistent on finding the TRUTH, by experiencing the UNKNOWN while putting a huge amount of faith in God and strangers.. that's the kind of person we want.........

Trust and faith are 100% soluble together. I personally believe you can't have one without the other.

well said rockpuck.

reply to post by abcddcba


I am not a mason, but the most damning secret about them is NOT that they sacrifice children to Satan during their meetings, engage in homo-erotic orgies, or are plotting some scheme to dominate the world. The most damning them about them is NOT that they are hiding some great philosophical or spiritually enlightening truths from the rest of us.

The most damning secret about them is that their meetings are boring, their members are for the most part, fairly ordinary and unremarkable people. The most damning them about them is that their meetings are mostly about mundane matters like how the electric bill is going to get paid or who is going to bring paper plates to the next picnic.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
The most damning secret about them is that their meetings are boring...

The stated, or business, meetings can be rather tedious. It is up to the master of the lodge to add programs, either dring or after, to generate interest in attending. For example, we recently had a representative from the Battleship New Jersey come and give a presentation about her which was quite interesting.

The Degree nights however, I always find to be enjoyable as we often get many more members and visitors when we present them.

reply to post by network dude


Were you asked to keep a secret on the account of your throat being slashed or intestines being ripped out? Just curious. No wait, thats a secret too, lol. Seriously though, well just speak freely on what you feel is safe to.

reply to post by EddieBee


Well sure, but that hardly ever happens…

reply to post by EddieBee


the penalties are symbolic. they are meant to make you think about what you have promised to do with regards to masonry. Nobody is going to kill you in strange and gory ways should you tell someone the secret word of a master mason instead of them reading it on page 1 of a Google search. But if I did reveal that secret, then I should feel as if that happened to my conscience. The only person I know of who has ever died in that way, was the guy hanging from the bridge in Italy when he was done in by the P2 lodge. They were a bit wacko and were made clandestine due to their unlawful activities. But ask anything you would like to know. If I can’t answer it, I will refer you to the great Gooogle in the sky.

reply to post by EddieBee


I can't speak specifically for obvious reasons, but (in my opinion) the penalties are neither symbolic nor binding in their more grisly implications. A Mason binds himself to "no less penalty" than the nasty things you've heard because Masons believe that the loss of their honor is no less a penalty; indeed, it is more of one. The penalties themselves are derived from lines of the play that is central to the Master Mason degree.

reply to post by SirKnightE


As a long, long, long time unregistered lurker here at ATS and a brother, I am often quite aghast at the mainstream flack Masons receive on the internet. So it seemed appropriate that my first post should be in a Masonic thread.

I will echo what most other brothers on this forum have said, even though they are oft debated for stating this:
I am a 3rd degree Master Mason, and I know many 32nd and 33rd degree masons. These men are, by far, some of the best men I have ever met; dedicating many years of their lives to the betterment of the fraternity, and consequently, to the betterment of mankind.

This is not propaganda fed to me by "higher ups". I am not "out of the loop" because I am a low level Mason.
I am an officer of my lodge, and will be Master in less than 3 years.

To sum it up,
We are not some evil secret group, though we may have had a few bad apples, and we have done things in secret.
We are your brothers, your fathers, your cousins, your teachers, your military personal, and your judges, we are also your plumbers, your butchers and your caterers.

As my lodge says, "There are no strangers here, only friends you haven't met"
2B1 ASK1