Questions about the 9/11 Pentagon attack

reply to post by wcitizen


Its amazing how many individuals are too dense to realize that it wasnt just the impact, and it wasnt just the fire. It was both.

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by wcitizen

 

Its amazing how many individuals are too dense to realize that it wasnt just the impact, and it wasnt just the fire. It was both.

He's confusing the report on the towers with the report on Building Seven. In the NIST report the latter's collapse is hypothesised as having nothing to do with the debris.

But only someone who was very credulous or a bit thick would try to contend that the planes had nothing to do with WTC 1 and 2.

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by jambatrumpet

Originally posted by dereks
This is why truthers are considered so silly, their "research" solely consists of visiting damn fool conspiracy sites, which are well known for posting lies!

I love it...Truthers: silly?... your assertion that a steel skyscraper collapsed because of fire...for the first time in history...two of 'em...on the same day....now THAT is silly...

your cherry picking of posts will not change the truth.

edit on 30-10-2010 by jambatrumpet because: (no reason given)

I am sure I read somewhere that they both had Boeing 767's smack into them at hundreds of miles an hour. I'll try and find it.

Well now, if you were as well informed as you expect others to be you would be aware that the official explanation for the collapse is NOT the impact of the jets, but the FIRE caused by the fuel.

No it isn't. This is what NIST said " The impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns; dislodged fire-proofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors, and the subsequent unusually large, jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires weakened the now susceptible structural steel.
No building in the United States has ever been subjected to the massive structural damage and concurrent fires that the towers experienced on 9/11/01."

You can hardly ignore the high speed impact of airliners or treat them as some sort of irrelevance. I think someone on here calculated the impacts in terms of tons of tnt going off. I don't know how to do that but, if anyone does, I would be interested.

No, I'm not ignoring them. I have taken into account the impact, based on what I've read and statements by those involved in the original architecture of the towers. I've also noted that the impact may conceivably have damaged some of the structure at the top of the towers just above and below the POI, but have concluded it is not possible that this happened to the structure all the way down. The towers didn't buckle. Massive steel bars don't shatter. The buildings were designed to resist many times the impact of these planes. The lower structures were not impacted. They would not have been damaged anywhere like enough to collapse.

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by wcitizen

 

Its amazing how many individuals are too dense to realize that it wasnt just the impact, and it wasnt just the fire. It was both.

Well, I admit that I can be a bit dense at times, but I am also perfectly aware that both impact and fire are factors. I guess that wasn't clear in my posts because I was emphasising a specific point.

Didn't much like the tone of yours, though.

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by wcitizen

 

Its amazing how many individuals are too dense to realize that it wasnt just the impact, and it wasnt just the fire. It was both.

Well, I admit that I can be a bit dense at times, but I am also perfectly aware that both impact and fire are factors. I guess that wasn't clear in my posts because I was emphasising a specific point.

Didn't much like the tone of yours, though.

i will apologize for the usual suspects of de-bunkers and there tone in this thread wcitizen,this is what they do,they work as a team,star eachothers comments reguardless if they are completely wrong,they are well versed and well rehearsed on this subject matter,they try to belittle anyone new in a thread,and 90% of the time this works,and they know it,there only source are 2 truster websites...and if you take the time to read these 2 sites properly,like i have you notice how these sites teach these de-bunkers how to break a thread discussion...

anyway they try to baffle you with pointless jargon,well the 2 smart ones do anyway,the others just follow them.


@Alfie,i've already explained numerous times to you,go back and actually read the thread.

reply to post by thedman


Did they notice any bodies or luggage ?

I wont believe a plane hit the pentagon untill I see it. Where is the footage?????

That may be it. Something that simple - Show me a picture of an airplane hitting the pentagon. Until they show us photographic proof of their story, we cannot stop asking where's the plane? Where's the plane? Where's the plane? Everybody asking every politician every time they show up somewhere, where's the plane? If we do this they will cave because there really is strength in numbers.It could start right here tonight, the where's the plane campaign.

Originally posted by dillweed
Show me a picture of an airplane hitting the pentagon. Until they show us photographic proof of their story, we cannot stop asking where's the plane?

So as there is no photographs of the Titanic sinking yiu do not think it happened, as their is no photographs of a B-25 actually hitting the Empire State building it did not happen, as there is no video of Elvis dying he is still alive....

Do you see where your stupid reasoning is taking you? Why do you ignore all the eyewitness accounts, the physical damage to the Pentagon, the bodies, engines, seats, data recorders etc etc that were found at the Pentagon from flight 77?

Originally posted by snapperski

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by wcitizen

 

Its amazing how many individuals are too dense to realize that it wasnt just the impact, and it wasnt just the fire. It was both.

Well, I admit that I can be a bit dense at times, but I am also perfectly aware that both impact and fire are factors. I guess that wasn't clear in my posts because I was emphasising a specific point.

Didn't much like the tone of yours, though.

i will apologize for the usual suspects of de-bunkers and there tone in this thread wcitizen,this is what they do,they work as a team,star eachothers comments reguardless if they are completely wrong,they are well versed and well rehearsed on this subject matter,they try to belittle anyone new in a thread,and 90% of the time this works,and they know it,there only source are 2 truster websites...and if you take the time to read these 2 sites properly,like i have you notice how these sites teach these de-bunkers how to break a thread discussion...

anyway they try to baffle you with pointless jargon,well the 2 smart ones do anyway,the others just follow them.


@Alfie,i've already explained numerous times to you,go back and actually read the thread.

Thank you, snapperski, that's really nice of you, but really, I don't think you need to apologise for the debunkers.
I haven't come across this particular poster, but it did strike me that his tone and the 'ad hominem' are characteristic of the regulars. I think I've come across one of those smart ones who try to baffle people with jargon...lol!

Thanks for the links, I'll have a read.

Dereks - I refuse to engage in a battle of wits, against an unarmed man. You're analogies are weak. Just like your proof. How can you defend a lie? I'm sad for you.

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by dillweed
Show me a picture of an airplane hitting the pentagon. Until they show us photographic proof of their story, we cannot stop asking where's the plane?

So as there is no photographs of the Titanic sinking yiu do not think it happened, as their is no photographs of a B-25 actually hitting the Empire State building it did not happen, as there is no video of Elvis dying he is still alive....

Do you see where your stupid reasoning is taking you? Why do you ignore all the eyewitness accounts, the physical damage to the Pentagon, the bodies, engines, seats, data recorders etc etc that were found at the Pentagon from flight 77?

The problem is if there was footage of the titanic sinking we would have seen it, it would be used in docos, little clips for news promos all over the place, prob as much as ive seen planes flying into the WTC. So still wheres the plane smashing into the pentagon, is in the wests best interest that we dont see a plane hitting the pentagon, from what ive heard the most filmed building in the world....

reply to post by lambros56

Did they notice any bodies or luggage ?

Yes they did -

Firemen once the fires had been extinguished went back in to do search and recovery

Read "FIREFIGHT" goes into detail about procedure when human remains found

On Tuesday, Army Staff Sgt. Mark Williams witnessed a combat zone for the first time in his 11 years of service. He never imagined it would be inside the Pentagon. One of the first recovery personnel to enter the crippled headquarters building after a hijacked Boeing 757 smashed into it, the urban search-and-rescue specialist found a gruesome sight. "If anyone has ever burned a pot roast, they'll know what the victims looked like," Williams, 30, said Thursday after another 12-hour shift of searching for 190 bodies — those of 126 missing Pentagon personnel and the 64 aboard the doomed jetliner.

The fireball occurred when the jetliner's full fuel tank exploded on impact and roared down corridors so fast that "90% didn't know what happened to them," he said.

Many were sitting at their desks or behind partitions. One woman was found frozen in a sitting position, her arms posed as if reading a document.

Several bodies were found huddled in groups near televisions. Pentagon workers were apparently watching the carnage taking place at the World Trade Center when the hellish scene on TV became reality for them, too.

When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him.

"It was the worst thing you can imagine," said Williams, whose squad from Fort Belvoir, Va., entered the building, less than four hours after the terrorist attack. "I wanted to cry from the minute I walked in. But I have soldiers under me and I had to put my feelings aside."

.

As of Thursday morning, search teams had recovered 70 bodies. The remains were being carried by helicopter to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware to be identified.

William's seven-man squad from the Military District of Washington's combat engineer company at Fort Belvoir was there to work alongside nearly 250 civil search-and-rescue crews from Maryland, Virginia and Tennessee to find survivors in the rubble. After the first few hours, there were none.

"You always hope to find survivors," said Sgt. Aaron Oakes, 22. "But when you see it, then reality sets in."

Full article

www.usatoday.com...

reply to post by deenuu

from what ive heard the most filmed building in the world....

Most FILMED according to whom? Conspiracy websites?

Pentagon has a large permanent guard force which patrols consistently by foot and vehicles

Cameras are used to watch locations from a central point - one man can sit in office and oversee large area

Way to save money....

Also cameras are normally placed to watch enterence/exit points. Pentagon enterence was on opposite section
(wedge) from the impact point.

The film of the impact was from a camera monitoring a parking lot and used a very slow frame rate

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by deenuu

 

from what ive heard the most filmed building in the world....

Most FILMED according to whom? Conspiracy websites?

Pentagon has a large permanent guard force which patrols consistently by foot and vehicles

Cameras are used to watch locations from a central point - one man can sit in office and oversee large area

Way to save money....

Also cameras are normally placed to watch enterence/exit points. Pentagon enterence was on opposite section
(wedge) from the impact point.

The film of the impact was from a camera monitoring a parking lot and used a very slow frame rate

Ok so that is the reason why we havent seen a plane flying into the pentagon, the footage doesent exist. makes sence, Im not convinced, but thanx for the reply.

I have done a quick search on Pentagon surveillance and yeah most of the info comes from conspiracy websites, so ill ignore that. I do think the surveillance on the pentagon would be classified info for obvious reasons, which makes me wonder how your able to detail quiet a lacklustre security presence with a few guards and a few low quality sec cams sounds like allot of black spots for communists, hippies and terrorists to exploit.

I (THINK) there is footage of something hitting the pentagon, and its not being shown for a specific reason, be it national security, or cover-up.

"I (THINK) there is footage of something hitting the pentagon, and its not being shown for a specific reason, be it national security, or cover-up."

What's the difference?

"Millions of gallons of water flowed throughout the building after the attack," said Joe Kelley, Munters district manager in the Washington DC area. In some places water was 18 inches deep on the floors."

www.public-action.com...

This begs the question, why was water and not foam used for extinguishing the fire after the alleged airline crash at the Pentagon? Foam smothers a fuel fire, while water ignites it. In addition, there are many other very serious questions regarding the Pentagon search and rescue procedures.

Shoddy security and incompetently coordinated search and rescue efforts at the nation's top military shop in a time of need? One would think the defense mechanisms and response would have been a little more effective at a building of such symbolic and real world importance.

Originally posted by deenuu
from what ive heard the most filmed building in the world....

Once again you believe the lies from the damn fool conspiracy sites.... try doing your own research instead of just believing their lies!

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
In addition, there are many other very serious questions regarding the Pentagon search and rescue procedures.

Shoddy security and incompetently coordinated search and rescue efforts at the nation's top military shop in a time of need?

Care to show us all this "shoddy security" and "incompetently coordinated search and rescue effort?" No, I did not think you could, just some more lies from one of those damn fool conspiracy sites!

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by deenuu
from what ive heard the most filmed building in the world....

Once again you believe the lies from the damn fool conspiracy sites.... try doing your own research instead of just believing their lies!

I did, and as I expected there is no government website that shows the numbers of security cameras at the pentagon. This information wouldn’t and shouldn’t be in the public domain. In my humble opinion the chances that a UFO hit the pentagon without being captured in clear view is very slim, but not impossible. This is just 1 of number questions I personally have from that day. Your comment was was quiet aggressive, un-warranted and not helpful.

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
"I (THINK) there is footage of something hitting the pentagon, and its not being shown for a specific reason, be it national security, or cover-up."

What's the difference?

"Millions of gallons of water flowed throughout the building after the attack," said Joe Kelley, Munters district manager in the Washington DC area. In some places water was 18 inches deep on the floors."

www.public-action.com...

This begs the question, why was water and not foam used for extinguishing the fire after the alleged airline crash at the Pentagon? Foam smothers a fuel fire, while water ignites it. In addition, there are many other very serious questions regarding the Pentagon search and rescue procedures.

Shoddy security and incompetently coordinated search and rescue efforts at the nation's top military shop in a time of need? One would think the defense mechanisms and response would have been a little more effective at a building of such symbolic and real world importance.

edit on 31-10-2010 by SphinxMontreal because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-10-2010 by SphinxMontreal because: (no reason given)

apparently not much man, which is quiet scary..