Our History under the Sea - Lost Cities and Civilizations - Resources and Information

I was surfing the net looking for information about the recently found city submerged off the coast of Cuba - Yucatan Penninsula to see if there have been any updates on it. While looking for info I came across a site,The Morien Institute, that deals specifically with archeological finds under the worlds oceans with archives going back to 1997 with source links and overviews.

One of the article I found intresting talks about the world sea levels. There is a new theory that suggests the sea levels were a few hundred feet higher than what they are today, possibly explaining why there are ancient cities with sea ports in the mountains (S. America - Peru).

The link below is for the archived site, while the examples below link directly to the sources.

The Morien Institue


A few examples:

Pre-Inca ruins found in lake Titicaca - 2000

The ruins of what is thought to be a huge ancient temple have been discovered by archaeologists diving beneath Lake Titicaca in the Andes between Bolivia and Peru.

"We've found what appears to have been a 200-metre-long, 50-metre-wide holy temple, a terrace for crops, a pre-Incan road and an 800-metre-long containing wall," said Lorenzo Epis, the Italian leading the Atahuallpa 2000 expedition. Ceramic artefacts were also found on the lake's floor.

Lost city 'could rewrite history' - 2002

The remains of what has been described as a huge lost city may force historians and archaeologists to radically reconsider their view of ancient human history.

Marine scientists say archaeological remains discovered 36 metres (120 feet) underwater in the Gulf of Cambay off the western coast of India could be over 9,000 years old.

Ancient Underwater Camps, Caribou Traps in Great Lake - 2009

Under North America's second largest lake, robot-assisted archaeologists may have discovered prehistoric American camps and long "drive lanes" built to guide caribou to their deaths, a new study says (caribou pictures and facts).

On what was once dry land, the structures likely date back 10,000 to 7,500 years. At the time, a vast land bridge divided what is now Lake Huron, researchers say (Lake Huron map).

Discovered: A sunken island, an Indian Ocean Atlantis - 2009

Godavaya, Sri Lanka: 14 March 2009: Marine archaeologists have just discovered evidence of a large submerged landmass southeast of Sri Lanka. They believe it could be a legendary lost island closely linked to the culture and history of Sri Lankan people.

The discovery was made by a team of Dutch and Sri Lankan scientists based on satellite maps and underwater sample extractions from the deep sea. Preliminary data need to be verified by a deep sea submersible expedition during 2009 – 2010, according to a member of the research team who did not want to be identified.

“This could well be the long lost island of Irisiyawa, which is euphemistically mentioned in our chronicles and hinted at in the writings of Greek historians,” said Dr Godwin Samarawickrama, a maritime historian at the Indian Ocean Institute based in Melacca, Malaysia.

Submerged ancient Thracian city to see daylight in Bulgaria - 2009

Sofia - Discovered under centuries-old layers of dirt in 1948, then submerged under 20 metres of water, the ancient city of Seuthopolis is to emerge once again in a bold rescue project. The magnificently preserved city, founded by the Thracian king Seuthes III in 323 BC, was discovered in central Bulgaria during the construction of a dam on the Tundzha river.

Stonehenge in Lake Michigan - 2009

The iconic Stonehenge in the UK is one of the most famous prehistoric monuments in the world, but it is not the only stone formation of its kind. Similar stone alignments have been found throughout England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales… and now, it seems, in Lake Michigan.

According to BLDGBLOG, in 2007, Mark Holley, professor of underwater archeology at Northwestern Michigan College, discovered a series of stones arranged in a circle 40 feet below the surface of Lake Michigan. One stone outside the circle seems to have carvings that resemble a mastodon—an elephant-like animal that went extinct about 10,000 years ago.

British holidaymaker discovers lost underwater 'city' - 2009

Michael Le Quesne, 16, was swimming off a popular beach in Montenegro with his parents and his ten-year-old sister Teodora when he spotted an odd looking 'stone' at a depth of around two metres.

It turned out to be a large, submerged building which may have been the centrepiece of an important Greek or Roman trading post, swallowed up by the sea during a massive earthquake.

Plato's fiction is coming to life

PLATO was in the news last week. Like most blokes born 2500 years ago, he doesn't make headlines all that often these days.
But on the south coast of Greece an Anglo-Greek team of archaeologists and marine geologists has started investigating a submerged ruined settlement discovered by a British oceanographer in 1969.

It is a complete planned city with its own town hall, suggesting it was inhabited by an educated and advanced people. Ceramics recovered from it indicate someone was living there perhaps 5000 years ago.

One of the reasons they are paying close attention to the site is because it is not far from the spot at which the so-called Antikythera mechanism was found.

These are just a few examples of what the site contains. Due to the amount of conversation on this forum dealing with these topics I thought I would share.

One of the more intresting occurences I have been seeing in these articles are the time frames scientists suggest for some of these newly rediscovered cities - 8,000 to 12,000 years old, which would predate the Pyramids based on current archeological timelines.

I am hoping that the more sites like these are found, the easier it will be for main stream science to accept that our history may very well be something completely different than what we are taught in school.

It seems like those responsible for changing the history of the world are resisting the notion of change.

The possibility that they were wrong.

I have seen some strange things in my travels through the great lakes.

This is an ancient world, and practically none of its history is recorded properly

So we play this guessing game, and every major discovery threatens the house of cards so many archaeologists have carefully built using the popsicle sticks of information they have found so far,

Wait until they find an entire city filled with detailed records some day, that will blow it all away.

But that would probably be suppressed until the end of time.

We can hope!


-G

reply to post by Gradius Maximus


I completely agree. It never made sense to me why science would go so far out of its way to kling to a timeline that, imo, appears flawed. One would think that science would be on a quest to answer these age old questions about where we came from, instead of trying to protect ego's.

Like politics, I'm thinking science needs a good once over as well to fix the mess.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I love reading stuff about ancient archaeology finds, I hadnt heard about some of the under sea cities you linked to - nice one I'll spend my next couple of hours reading the links you provided.

I might add that I certainly hope that the Smithsonian Institute is not involved with funding any of the investigations with regard to these underwater discoveries because if it is, we'll probably never get to know the history behind what it finds - especially if any evidence is found that veers us away from what we are taught.

Suppressed finds in The Grand Canyon, New England, Alabama
 
The Smithsonian and the US government are covering up details of past archeological discoveries that would rock current understanding of the past to “protect its people.”  The most important archaeological institute in the United States, the Smithsonian Institute, has been actively suppressing some of the most interesting and important archaeological discoveries made in the Americas.

Pasted from

If this is true of the Smithsonian, how is it that it is allowed to continue suppressing discoveries?

reply to post by doobydoll


From what I have read it doesnt really look like the S.I., is involved. It looks like it is eaither private groups, or universities that are doing a lot of this. The one thing I have noticed is there willingness to suggest the age on some of these sites.

Its one thing if it is just 1 or 2 sites from different parts of the globe, but a lot of these places are getting the same num bers now, 8-12 thousand years old. While I know the stuff needs to undergo testing to determine age and waht not. At least its a step in the right direction in terms of possibly correcting the time line issues of our history.

I remain cautiously optomistic that we are 1 discoverey away from a smoking gun that explains our past, and possibly suggests what our future may hold.

The info I was looking for regarding the city off Cuba revealed some intresting info. The scientific group that did the exploration had to sign a non disclosure agreement in order to get the private 2 million dollars. There was another article I found talking about some divers in the carribean that were diving. Supposedly one of the divers was seperated from the group and discovered a temple that glowed (yeah I know, sounds fishy). He swam into part of the temple and was able to recover a crystal that had 3 other crystal pyramids in it. Supposedly has a weird energy signature and healing properties.

Ill try to find the article again and post it. There is jsut enough info in it to suggest it might not be a complete fraud.

Either way, I think the more we look in the ocean, the more answers we will find.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by doobydoll

 

From what I have read it doesnt really look like the S.I., is involved. It looks like it is eaither private groups, or universities that are doing a lot of this. The one thing I have noticed is there willingness to suggest the age on some of these sites.

Its one thing if it is just 1 or 2 sites from different parts of the globe, but a lot of these places are getting the same num bers now, 8-12 thousand years old. While I know the stuff needs to undergo testing to determine age and waht not. At least its a step in the right direction in terms of possibly correcting the time line issues of our history.

I remain cautiously optomistic that we are 1 discoverey away from a smoking gun that explains our past, and possibly suggests what our future may hold.

The info I was looking for regarding the city off Cuba revealed some intresting info. The scientific group that did the exploration had to sign a non disclosure agreement in order to get the private 2 million dollars. There was another article I found talking about some divers in the carribean that were diving. Supposedly one of the divers was seperated from the group and discovered a temple that glowed (yeah I know, sounds fishy). He swam into part of the temple and was able to recover a crystal that had 3 other crystal pyramids in it. Supposedly has a weird energy signature and healing properties.

Ill try to find the article again and post it. There is jsut enough info in it to suggest it might not be a complete fraud.

Either way, I think the more we look in the ocean, the more answers we will find.

I cant read enough about this sort of stuff, so after your post I started looking for info on diving finds and I found this about divers in Belize, who a couple of months ago found huge fossilized bones believed to be 12,000-20,000 years old and possibly older, and also discovered ancient underwater caves and tunnels:

Scientists discovered several fossil beds around 60-to-90 feet below the surface, including femur bones the size of a bowling ball. They also found tusks and pelvic bones. These are the first recorded fossils ever found in Belize.
news.nationalgeographic.com...

They need to acquire sophisticated diving equipment in order to explore further. I can hardly wait to see what else they find down there.

Flagged cos its my fave subject

reply to post by Xcathdra



I've heard it said that orthodoxies aren't changed by argument or persuasion we simply have to wait for the adherents of the orthodoxy to die of old age, look at Lord Kelvin one of the greatest minds of his era yet he made many wrong pronouncements when defending the scientific orthodoxy of the times.

reply to post by Thepreye


Fair point.. My issue with this though is its not the middle ages, and we have moved beyond a flat earth that was once the center of the universe. It just seems like we are getting more stupid as time goes by. With the technology we have one would assume that it should not take 500 years for a wrong to be righted.

Eliminate the impossible, and whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth.

rabbithole2.com...

Please note the sea levels in relationship with the timeline. People generally tend to congregate close to coastlines, look for old coastlines and one will find settlement.
It is archeologists unwillingness to accept what they find as truth. Rewriting history and overturning accepted notions of the past is hard and often a career killer for Archeologists.

I've tried to find an interactive map, charting sea level decreases, however all I'm finding is sea level increases. Anyone got a link to one????

I've been looking around the web for similar stories of ancient structures found under water, and I found this (and a few others in the link) fascinating:

"1977 report of a huge pyramid found off Cay Sal in the Bahamas, photographed
by Ari Marshall's expedition, about 150 feet underwater. The pyramid was
about 650 feet high. Mysteriously, the surrounding water was lit by
sparkling white water flowing out of the openings in the pyramid and
surrounded by green water, instead of the black water everywhere else at
that depth."
www.cyberspaceorbit.com...

Does anyone know if any extensive scientific expeditions have taken place since these underwater cities were discovered, and how/where can i find out more?

Yes, I remember when the story broke in the early 00's, and the excitement that Zelitsky & co expressed when the first sonar images showed the structures off the Cuban coast.

I religiously searched for updates through the years, but there was very little except for re-hashed stories with 'old' material.

I believe Zelitsky was trying to broker a deal with National Geographic, have them pay for a new expedition, but that apparently never happened (or I missed it).

Also, if I understood it right, these sunken supposed structures are pretty hard to investigate, deep down in dirty waters.

The general subject of sunken cities and civlizations is a passionate one, and an area where archaeology is lagging behind.

You should definitely dip into Graham Hankock's book "Underworld" to further explore the subject:

Google Video Link

Originally posted by doobydoll
I've been looking around the web for similar stories of ancient structures found under water, and I found this (and a few others in the link) fascinating:

"1977 report of a huge pyramid found off Cay Sal in the Bahamas, photographed
by Ari Marshall's expedition, about 150 feet underwater. The pyramid was
about 650 feet high. Mysteriously, the surrounding water was lit by
sparkling white water flowing out of the openings in the pyramid and
surrounded by green water, instead of the black water everywhere else at
that depth."
www.cyberspaceorbit.com...

Does anyone know if any extensive scientific expeditions have taken place since these underwater cities were discovered, and how/where can i find out more?

If I am not mistaken I think this is the group that had to secure the 2 million in private funds to continue the expedition, in addition to signing a non disclosure agreement about what they find (which imo is just wrong but I digress).

Here are a few more links to the topic you were asking about.

Atlantis Found

The ruins of temples dated at 12,000 years old have been found near Bimini, Bahamas. Megalithic structures are not supposed to be in the Bahamas.
Preliminary analysis has revealed that the original structures, although smaller in size than the Great Pyramid of Giza, appear to have been more advanced.

Casing stones have been measured which are of the same unique angle as those at the Great Pyramid.

The ruins are megalithic and bear a remarkable resemblance to ancient sites in Egypt. So called "quarry marks" found in the Aswan quarries and also on the Great Pyramid, itself, appear to be identical matches with those found on the Bimini temple stones.

One major difference, however, between the Egyptian sites and these stones is that on The Bimini stones you find a great number of sky maps which have recorded the paths of various heavenly bodies. The major concern of the mysterious ancient civilization that produced these heavenly maps seems to have been Saturn and Jupiter --with the oldest records reflecting an emphasis in Saturn.

Some of the stones are under water and some of them are under the sand under water. They are not in their original formation.

It appears that the most important or revered numbers associated with these ruins were the numbers five and nine. These numbers were also of great significance to the ancients of Egypt and Meso-America.

History of the Golden Ages
Atlantis - An Introduction

I found another index site that has more underwater archeological projects listed. This covers ship wrecks and items in addition to lost cities.

ACUA Underwater Links

Its not as detailed as the other site listed, but it contains items not on the other site.

Originally posted by Tinman67
It is archeologists unwillingness to accept what they find as truth.

Two examples that show this is poop:
1) Folsom, New Mexico
2) Monte Verde, Chile

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


I think think the intent was to show archeologists refuse / ignore the evidence that humans were a lot more advanced than previously thought. Archeologists talk about the cradle of civilization springing up in the Middle East a few thousand years ago, with the thought process being anything earlier than the "established time" was nothing more than hunter - gatherer setups.

The notion of cities revolves around the process of food. Fertile ground is found to grow, with a healthy population of animals etc, causing people to stay in one place longer, instead of moving on to forage elsewhere.

There is an opposing theory that we severely underestimate how advanced our ancestors were. Other theories talk about how cities formed before advanced agriculture.


The theories behind how old the Pyramids and the Sphinx are based on erosion is a perfect example of the argument. Either side could be wrong of course, however you cant ignore the campaign to completely support the current view that they were built 4,500 years ago.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
I think think the intent was to show archeologists refuse / ignore the evidence that humans were a lot more advanced than previously thought. Archeologists talk about the cradle of civilization springing up in the Middle East a few thousand years ago, with the thought process being anything earlier than the "established time" was nothing more than hunter - gatherer setups.

Archaeologists only say this because this is what all the evidence we have found indicates.

You may not realize that it wasn't too long ago that the civilization that began in Sumer was unknown to us. If archaeologists are so prone to cling to "old ideas," then why did they embrace this new one?

I'll tell you why, evidence.

Now, the fact that a culture is classified as hunter-gatherer means nothing as far as what they can accomplish. The idea that it does is formed from bias on the part of people, such as yourself, that think this way and is not due to any archaeological pronouncements.

If and when any new evidence is found for any early culture that might be classified as a civilization, archaeology and anthropology will no doubt so classify them.

In the meantime, ponder on Gobekli Tepe, Stonehenge, and other extremely ancient yet highly sophisticated accomplishments.

Their builders are not classified as civilizations. Yet Archaeologists do not hesitate to attribute these great accomplishments to the people that acheived them.

The theories behind how old the Pyramids and the Sphinx are based on erosion is a perfect example of the argument. Either side could be wrong of course, however you cant ignore the campaign to completely support the current view that they were built 4,500 years ago.

The construction of the Great Pyramid is convincingly dated by hieroglyphs found therein.

There is simply no evidence for the Sphinx being much older than Egyptology claims, and a very large amount of evidence indicating that Egyptology has the date for the sphinx pretty much right.

Again, with evidence, this view can change. But real evidence is required, not the small amount of facts that could indicate anything either way, as is the case with Schoch's theory.

Harte

reply to post by Xcathdra


S & F

Great topic. I wrote a couple of threads on the topic sunken or lost civilizations due to ocean levels rising etc. Don't let the name fool you. Part-3 is completed.


Enjoy
Origins of Atlantis/Lemuria Myths Part-1
Origins of Atlantis/Lemuria Myths Part-2

Originally posted by Tinman67
rabbithole2.com...

Please note the sea levels in relationship with the timeline. People generally tend to congregate close to coastlines, look for old coastlines and one will find settlement.

...which is one of the places where archaeologists tend to look for new discoveries. The problem is that once a group of people like a place, they move in and stay there... so ancient stuff is buried under layers upon layers upon layers of more modern cities.

Also, not all of the ancient sites are coastal. Not every spot on the coast (even back then) was high in easily obtained resources. You do find them along rivers (again, the problem is that rivers have a "lifetime" and many of the rivers we see today were only formed within the last 12,000 years) -- often the coastal sites were seasonal camps. There's been a number of them identified along the Texas coastline.

Living on the coast also puts you at risk for hurricanes and tropical storms (which would wipe out all traces of many types of groups (people living in grass houses, as they did around here.)

It is archeologists unwillingness to accept what they find as truth. Rewriting history and overturning accepted notions of the past is hard and often a career killer for Archeologists.

Archaeologists and historians rewrite textbooks all the time (I was involved in a rewrite of a textbook some 8 years ago.) If we didn't then all our textbooks would end with the last recorded bit of history being the founding of the US (and no updates that things had happened in the Americas after the Founding Fathers got here.

I've tried to find an interactive map, charting sea level decreases, however all I'm finding is sea level increases. Anyone got a link to one????

What you want is maps of the world between the depths of the last Ice Age (about 24,000 years ago) and the end of the Younger Dryas (about 10,000 years ago). These dates are rough (plus or minus 1,000 years) and you're not going to get yearly data because very few sites preserve annual records (even in fossil beds.) There's ways of finding this stuff for your area (we considered it when we were studying sites on the coastline of Texas) but I'm not sure how much detail there was globally.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

I think think the intent was to show archeologists refuse / ignore the evidence that humans were a lot more advanced than previously thought.

A 'theory'...in the popular usage of the word...is just that until proven. To concoct a history built upon what could be possible is to generate an Idiocracy. Intuitive leaps don't count as fact. What could be cannot be considered equal to what is known to be.

Science does not shatter its paradigms easily or graciously. The bar is held high, some say ridiculously so, but when the evidence merits, the knowledge base changes accordingly. I gave two examples in the North American context...Folsom and Monte Verde.

Your key word is evidence. One clear site, excavated professionally by an archaeologist with impeccable credentials, in a sealed context with indisputable conclusions, will change our timelines. Nothing else.

And that is the way it should be.

Slayer69,

BRAVO!!! Your work on those two threads is nothing short of magnificent!

HUGE KUDOS!