Milatary Camoflauge

reveal your position?he is shooting at you he knows your position and your not alone if you are on a patrol you at lest have 3-4 other soliders with you
and we will all have to return suppresing fire until we id the shooter its the same thing you stand there to look for the shooter or you can fire while looking for the shooter

you obviosly dont know about "squad positions" you dont bunch together so the shooter or shooters have to pick individual targets not groups.
also once you lie down or find cover the enemy loses sight and track of you.

Originally posted by devilwasp

also once you lie down or find cover the enemy loses sight and track of you.

well how do you figure. assume for a moment you have multiple suspects in an elevated position I.E. roof tops or trees. just cause you lie down doesent meen they cant see you. and we follow a rule called " Plus One" this rule states that when there is one suspect there is another somewhere so while you think your hiding for all you know there is another shooter behind you. every situation is diffrent. you cant say that there is one solution to every situation. its not practical.

secondly have you ever heard of F.L.I.E.R. We use it in our helicopters to find suspects at night. is heat vision with it you can see through walls and almost anything else. this technology is not hard to comeby. and for all you know the suspects could have a version of this.

[edit on 27-6-2004 by tealc]

i meant its more difficult to hit a target lying down at a distance than when its standing up. its a military saying "when in doubt hit the dirt" . the military has solutions to most ambush's but i dont know em. they left that part out at marine camp.

never heard of F.L.I.E.R., but we do have thermal sights. each tow truck has one, but we stowed most of the tow stuff. it was really no use in the city. infact, we were told to never use anything larger than a .50, and in some of the mud hut towns not even that. i spent the whole time over there with only a 240b and an m4.

as far as just opening up suppressive fire as soon as you make contact, that is not something that was hapening, nor something that was ordered. what are you gonna suppress? the school on the left, or the homes on the right? you dont shoot at all untill you know who exactly your shooting at.

what you have to remember is that a large part staying alive over there is keeping the locals happy, and you dont do that by shooting their homes. in all truthfullness, we were warned about more I.E.D.s (roadside bombs hidden in trash) by the people we passed on the street than actually detonated near us. sometimes they would just post a sign that there was a bomb ahead knowing we didnt read arabic. our translaters were usualy not in the lead vehicle, so by the time he saw it (if he did) it was too late.

you have to keep the local happy. be nice to the kids, listen to the old ladies whine and complain, and treat the men and teenagers like equals untill they do something to make you act otherwise, and they will cooperate with you. most people over there are good and dont care who is in charge so long as they arent dying too much. it the little things, like buying sodas from kids and waving when they are chanting "good, good, mister" theat keep them on our side. it really is a small percentage who are bad. you cant just open fire on everyone.

besides, much of the contact i made was with I.E.D.s, and there is little way to fight them, they are remote detonated. the only way to fight them is to find out who is making them and raid his house and arrest him.
God help you if you just kill everyone you see and dont even get the people who did it.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
reveal your position?he is shooting at you he knows your position and your not alone if you are on a patrol you at lest have 3-4 other soliders with you
and we will all have to return suppresing fire until we id the shooter its the same thing you stand there to look for the shooter or you can fire while looking for the shooter

Westpoint.

When you or your section are targeted it maybe that other members are taking incoming when you may not be, you don`t hide you return suppressive fire to allow you and your section to find the best place to position that gives you a clear arc on the target area whilst not exposing your body mass.You only return fire to suppress when you have id the targets positions and your section has to withdraw away from or set up defensive position. The initial contact you suppress to allow you to move,the point is to cause the target to take cover thus allowing you to move.To id the target he has to be exposed to you.Unless they are stupid and stood up shooting like a lunatic(which is how you describe your method)you have to draw fire to one of your section whilst the others are targeting and returning fire once there identified.If your firing whilst trying to find the target two things could happen either one of his team shoots you from another area (remember even Americans haven`t invented a weapon that can be fired in all directions at once or he keeps his head down until you run out of ammo which case you still won`t now were he is and he`s got more ammo than you.In Iraq most contacts are over after the initial contact and by the time you have taken defensive position the target has gone.

secondly have you ever heard of F.L.I.E.R. We use it in our helicopters to find suspects at night. is heat vision with it you can see through walls and almost anything else. this technology is not hard to comeby. and for all you know the suspects could have a version of this.

[edit on 27-6-2004 by tealc]


I would love to see a solider walking around the streets with a huge dome from a helicopter on his head.You`ve been watching way to much T.V man.

Do any armies reguraly use camo to lower heat signatures besides in aircraft.

Simple answered no.too complicated to put all over the body in the field.

there are no testing that l have heard of to extend to troops.

never heard of anything to lower heat siganitures. we did have pannels on our trucks that made a signature that the tanks a nd choppers can see with the thermals, to reduce freindly fires. in fact, i remember alot of guys had a little metal square on the backs of their kevlars the did the same thing.

and id bet you $1000 that you cant find an iraqi with thermals. mabey old 2nd or 1st gen russian night vision, and even then only a very select few.

and weirdo, the tactic you refer to about firing to make the enemy reveal his position is what we call a recon by fire. something that can be donewith both direct fire and indirect (calling for fire from arty., so the enemy will move and you can see him). i never saw anyone do it in iraq, however it is something we are all taught and practice. with every enemy direct fire i observed in iraq, the enemy was painfully obvious. one pair of retards drove past my pltn. (6 trucks with 240Bs, 50 cal., and 19 personell with m4/m-16s) on a motercycle and the guy sitting on back opened up with a folding stock kalishnikov (ak).the driver threw a hand grenade that didnt detonate.we had one person get shot in the hand. everyone who didnt have their face planted in the dirt knew exactly where to fire at, and there was no way to tell who killed the guy, he had every type of round in our platoon inside him.

just saying. recon by fire is a usefull and worthwhile tactic, but it wasnt usualy neccecary over there.

Originally posted by cavscout
weirdo. who are you to claim i am not what i say i am? i am a 19d20d3, a cavalry scout, in the 2nd acr.

Cavscout

Just curious what unit of the 2nd are you in.

im in second squadron, second armored cavalry regiment from ft. polk, LA. the rest of the regiment is still in iraq, getting ready to come home.we were the lead element coming home, and they were supposed to follow us by a week or two, but the regiment got stop-movement orders shortly after we got home.

Originally posted by cavscout
mabey the velcro will help keep my MREs warm!

LMAO

You should know better, Scouts don't heat MREs...

Tous Pour Un

HAHAHAHA!!!!!!

at last, someone who knows what he is talking about.

any chance you were at knox in 2000/2001? you sound like my damn drill.


scouts out!

I was in Knox during that time frame yes.

Don't remind me of the DIs, our troop had the honor of breaking in three baby drills.

mind if i ask you MOS? if you were in scout OSUT at that time, what troop?

ever run into Livingston? my new privates are still hearing storys of him at knox

OMFG!!!

Sr. Drill Livingston! (He's all mouth)

Yes, Echo troop (it wasn't "EASY troop"!,we lived in the pit) had Rivers, AKA "Black Death".

Capt Scott, the man.

Man, your bringing back some memories.



[edit on 28-6-2004 by ADVISOR]

[edit on 28-6-2004 by ADVISOR]

OMFG!!!.........?

whats that about? what do you mean double post delete?

Originally posted by cavscout
OMFG!!!.........?

whats that about? what do you mean double post delete?

I edited my post above.
DUDE, exactly OMFG!

See post, a couple above.