Is it possible that Humanity really IS the only "advanced" civilization in the Universe? RE: Civil

reply to post by inivux

But if these alien races really were as advanced and intelligent as one would expect their Kardashev Type to allow them to be, wouldn't it stand to reason that they would make their communication methods "backwards compatible"?

Then again, if the backwards compatibility includes the methods we use, which are lost to the background noise of space itself, that explains why we cannot find them or detect them.

Why would they? Do we currently make television broadcasts 'backwards compatible' for tribal cultures on our own planet?

I'd love to hear what people like xiphias and sirnex would say, when asked to explain why a Type 3 civilization isn't detectable, either directly or indirectly.

That is, according to that very equation, it would mean that there could be COUNTLESS Type 3 (Inter-GALACTIC) civilizations. If that were true, why haven't we detected them?

That's a pretty darn advanced civilization type ... How would a chimpanzee in the wild detect our advanced civilization? Chimpanzee's are intelligent in their own right, capable of culture, tool usage and primitive language. Yet they would be pressed hard to detect us just as we would have as much trouble detecting something too advanced for us to detect.

That is, consider notion that life advances at the same rate and started advancing at the same time. Wouldn't that explain why we don't find other civilizations? These other civilizations would be where we are, or would have never made it past this point, due to MAD, etc.

No, it wouldn't explain it as it makes no logical sense to assume that all life started at the same time and advanced at the same rate. There are stars that are older, younger and long gone, civilizations would follow that same pattern.

If you would read the original post critically and carefully, and read through my other responses critically and carefully, you would realize that this is more about a discussion on "what if".

We (or at least I do) get that point... yet one needs to look at the matter realistically as that has more bearing on the reality of the situation! It's like pointlessly musing over 'what if' humans had fish heads and fins.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by inivux

 

Why would they? Do we currently make television broadcasts 'backwards compatible' for tribal cultures on our own planet?

That is a fair point, but suppose these Type 2+ civilizations would have "gotten past" that somewhat elitist notion of "ignoring" other, "lesser" civilizations? Surely with greater intelligence, comes a greater understanding of social interaction (i.e. "enlightenment").

That's a pretty darn advanced civilization type ... How would a chimpanzee in the wild detect our advanced civilization? Chimpanzee's are intelligent in their own right, capable of culture, tool usage and primitive language. Yet they would be pressed hard to detect us just as we would have as much trouble detecting something too advanced for us to detect.

I definitely see what you are saying, and how it is in line with the above, but I think you are viewing this through the Human lens. You're still thinking too inside the box. If , relative to a Type 2+ civilization, we are the chimps as you imply, then then what is to say that Type 2+ civilizations haven't have advanced in every way possible (technologically, mentally, intellectually, socially, etc, etc; that is, "enlightenment")? This "enlightenment" would allow them to make SURE we "chimps" could detect them, even if our methods were rudimentary.

No, it wouldn't explain it as it makes no logical sense to assume that all life started at the same time and advanced at the same rate. There are stars that are older, younger and long gone, civilizations would follow that same pattern.

You are right. That was my oversight.

We (or at least I do) get that point... yet one needs to look at the matter realistically as that has more bearing on the reality of the situation! It's like pointlessly musing over 'what if' humans had fish heads and fins.

Although that would be an interesting conversation, I'm pretty sure this conversation is on an entirely different order of magnitude, and well within "reality".

reply to post by inivux

That is a fair point, but suppose these Type 2+ civilizations would have "gotten past" that somewhat elitist notion of "ignoring" other, "lesser" civilizations? Surely with greater intelligence, comes a greater understanding of social interaction (i.e. "enlightenment").

Greater intelligence or more knowledgeable and technologically advanced? As advanced as we are today, we are literally no more intelligent than the first human ancestors 200,000 years ago. In almost a quarter million years, our mental capacity has hardly budge a bit and yet in that time period we have manage to reach the heavens.

Perhaps older civilizations do as we do and allow the younger one's to develop naturally. We are just now beginning to understand how important it is to have less impact and interaction with more primitive cultures on our own planet. With every contact and new "improvement" given to them, their way of life is lost.

I definitely see what you are saying, and how it is in line with the above, but I think you are viewing this through the Human lens. You're still thinking too inside the box. If , relative to a Type 2+ civilization, we are the chimps as you imply, then then what is to say that Type 2+ civilizations haven't have advanced in every way possible (technologically, mentally, intellectually, socially, etc, etc; that is, "enlightenment")? This "enlightenment" would allow them to make SURE we "chimps" could detect them, even if our methods were rudimentary.

In retrospect, would not such 'enlightenment' cause more advanced civilizations to allow lesser advanced civilizations to develop at their natural progress, to learn from their own mistakes, to develop technologically at a normal pace rather than having technologies and knowledge dumped upon them that is beyond their current comprehension? Would you hand a gun to a chimp and allow your child to play with the chimp?

Although that would be an interesting conversation, I'm pretty sure this conversation is on an entirely different order of magnitude, and well within "reality".

I personally find this discussion well outside the realms of reality as it appears to me to be asserting that humanity may possibly be the only advanced civilization in all of existence. That's pure fantasy given the immense age of the universe and the vast size of it. Even if there were type 3 intergalactic hoping aliens, unless they are flying towards us, they wouldn't even know we existed. The universe is immensely huge after all.

Those are all excellent points, and they are causing me to seriously consider that we really aren't alone.

Originally posted by inivux
Those are all excellent points, and they are causing me to seriously consider that we really aren't alone.

I know for a fact we are not alone. We have plentiful evidence that given the right conditions, life will take a hold and evolve to survive in even the harshest of conditions. Our planet is full of such examples and we may possibly have at least three other celestial bodies in our solar system that could contain some form of life. Mars, Europa and Titan are those three candidates and I would certainly say there is microbial life on all three. Mars and Venus possibly had abundant life in the past before whatever disasters took place on them that wiped out life there.

We're now starting to discover planets around other stars in our stellar neighborhood that are within the habitable zones of their host stars. If liquid water and a proper atmosphere conductive to life is on those planets, then chances are life exists there as well. Even if there is intelligent life, we can't assume that this life will have human like attributes, ideas, or technologies. Many thing's would be more different than they would be similar.

It seems that INIVUX has started to get so distant from himself, that he really think the only way out is death & decay for everyone.

As you see, this is a really irrational way to think, as it implies that you can foresee the future for everyone & everything on Terra.

Explain to me the logic in this way of thinking about all life?

Originally posted by olle2000
It seems that INIVUX has started to get so distant from himself, that he really think the only way out is death & decay for everyone.

As you see, this is a really irrational way to think, as it implies that you can foresee the future for everyone & everything on Terra.

Explain to me the logic in this way of thinking about all life?

There is no logic behind the thought of it being possible that we're alone in this vast universe.

For starts, it's rather ridiculous to assume that all intelligent life will eventually wipe itself out before reaching a sufficiently high technological advancement to explore the cosmos. There is no example that such an event has happened or ever will happen. The only reason we think of such a thing is out of pure guilt towards our own species when we look upon ourselves as that example. Yet this is arrogant narcissism to think such a way as any intelligent species out there will not be *homo sapiens*, they will be a completely unrelated different looking race of beings with different values, cultures, religious ideas and subset of acquired knowledge. We can't even compare ourselves to them as we would be more dissimilar than we would be similar.

The universe is simply to large for us to being the cream of the crop and as much as our species has throughout the ages pretended we are so special, we're not. We're a tiny insignificant speck upon billions of other specks in a large universe that we know hardly a damn thing about. I don't know why people can't look at the big picture realistically rather than through ignorant imaginations of being the greatest species in the universe. It's just sad and does a disservice to our own race should we ever get discovered by someone else.

October 3, 2015

"According to a new report by the Netherlands Institute for Radio Astronomy, there are no signs of advanced alien life in 93 of our neighboring galaxies."

Source: www.foxnews.com...

Well, this certainly isn't encouraging news! I could understand not finding signs of intelligent life after searching 93 solar systems... But 93 GALAXIES? Oh my...