Alien Rights; What would/should humanity afford them?

In the context of Aliens landing/openly visiting the earth, I started thinking;
'If and when aliens do land/visit, what rights should they have?
Will/Should humanity treat them the same as they would treat foreign dignitaries?
Or would/should they be treated the same as illegal human aliens?'

So, here i am asking what you (regular citizens of earth & representatives of humanity) would like to see happen in this situatiion?
Also, what would you find totally unacceptable (regards to poor treatment, or even if you consider something 'too nicer' treatment)

If they come here I think the question would be what rights they grant us, I can't see us visiting them under our own steam for a very long time.

reply to post by AmmonSeth


If, five minutes after their mass arrival, I am still alive I shall be grateful. I don't think we would be in any position to start telling potential aliens what their rights our!

If they were advanced enough to fly over here then they are more than capable of overthrowing us.

We should do nothing to harm them. If they are friendly we should welcome them with open arms and treat them with respect.

I don't see the point of being violent towards an alien species if they are here with good intentions but you will still have those idiots who want to kill them or shoot at them. Why not pretend they are some huge celebrity and give them the red carpet treatment since people seem to love pampering celebs so much.

If aliens were to just land and say "hey, we're here" basically then why would you want to hurt them? Wouldn't aliens landing be the biggest thing ever to happen in our lifetime? So why ruin it with violence?


Sadly I don't think we would treat them nice....someone would shoot them.

Honestly I think the answer to this question actually would depend upon the aliens and their own circumstances - assuming of course that they didn't show up guns blazing and looking to conquer us.

If they arrived bringing gifts... A cure for all diseases, endless free energy, really cool guns, true virtual reality, TV writers with real imagination, a new ozone layer... That kind of stuff. I think, then, they be treated like Kings - or at least like welcomed guests.

But imagine if the aliens showed up in need. If their ships were a life raft, the kind of which many humans ponder building to save our own species, and they arrived literally on their last leg, needing support and care, and with little or nothing to offer?

Honestly in that case I think some government would probably shoot them outright and then reverse engineer whatever technology they'd brought with them.

My problem with the idea of granting rights is that rights are fundamental and ought not be granted. It is my opinion that they are inherant, and are in no persons power to give or take. They are like gravity in my opinion. A fact, rather than a possibility.
Here on Earth we pay too much heed to what a government tells a visitor they may and may not do. All I have ever asked from persons visiting or living in my nation, is that they obey the laws of my nation, and make sure that their behaviour is acceptable. So , worship who you like, but dont kill your daughter over a packet of condoms and a late night is my principle.
Similarly , aliens visiting this planet ought to be able to do whatever they want to do , as long as it does not interfere with a persons right to go about thier business without getting killed, molested against thier will , that kind of thing. Other than that, I believe that all intelligent life has a duty to ensure that where it is to be found, it is supported, and if possible befriended. We are all residents of the universe at the end of the day, and I find no reason why aliens should be subject to any different treatment than we are used to . The only thing that might be preventative is the amount of total BS that us humans go through just to keep a roof over our heads. I dont think a species which could cross the distance between here and thier origination point would be as petty , or red tape obsessed as we are, and would probably have done away with bureaucratic structure of all kinds , knowing full well that self determination is more important than crazy ideas like government and leadership. Therefore our ways would be pretty odd to them I think.
Im of the opinion that we have no reason to bristle about borders where these beings are concerned. Although I suppose there might be a few nations which would not appreciate a visit, there are workarounds for that, maybe ensuring for instance that airspace of hostile nations is not violated .

However what will probably happen is that a bunch of xenophobic btards with no souls or morals will assume the worst, attempt to blow them all up, and generaly cause a bunch of havoc for the rest of us with no sound reason behind it. Thats because this planet is ruled exclusively by total scumbags.

reply to post by AmmonSeth


The same rights we (try) and give to each other.

That's the only answer.

Of course, if we greet them like this:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/156cc7c39dbf.jpg[/atsimg]

www.mirror.co.uk...

then we are asking for trouble. Our rights might be voided.

reply to post by AmmonSeth



I think the first thing would be to define better, what you mean by "Rights".

I think the whole question of 'afforded' or 'bestowed' rights is a sad joke period. The idea of 'afforded rights' even in the 'nicest' use of the term, to me, is still an expression of egosim and subjugation - and exercising these kinds of illusory authorities over others, is a fake power tool-made-real and a fulcrum of oppression...evidence of fear based needs to control and exert an otherwise unnecessary and essentially non existant power paradigm. ( ende pulpit)

In its tried and true sense, the word "Right" simply means 'moral principle'...the word Right does not mean 'permission' and given that, how can we say that we have the authority to rule or assume authority over anothers guiding moral principles/Rights?

It is also specious reasoning to assume that any civilisation to arrive here would view the protection and upholding of Rights as the centeral edict of identity, respect and social cohesion in the way many human societies do. Even here, between cultures and cities, our own view of their importance varies.

My rights as a person are inherent...they stem from within me and define me, my obligations, priorities and responsibilities in this life. They are not given to me by governments or laws or refined by peices of paper. The law and government can only protect and service my rights, they cant bestow them. Nor can they take them away...as even dismissed, restricted, unsanctioned or ignored, my Rights continue to exist. They are not a comodity even on the table for discussion.

In regards to communal civil law, where my rights are excercised in respect to the inherent rights of others and are open therefore to restriction, even that authority to restrict them is based solely on my own willingness and commitment to communal responsibility and the process of obligating myself to adhere to those restrictions; which only means I am personally agreeing to be bound by social laws that restrict my actions and behavior. That agreement is conditional and those laws and restrictions dont alter the existance of the Rights themselves or my ability to exercise them in conscience beyond those restrictions....something sadly prooved in the negative daily by s*icide b*mbers.

So even there, in that jungle of civil law and restrictions/permissions, "rights" of access, movement etc..are only *implied* authorities and exclusions, and as such, they are only as good as the obligations they embody and the outward responsibility/ies they engender and even more, they are dependant on the will of the individal and the collective society to uphold them.

Given our current human state, I doubt any individual or group of people on this planet at this time has any inherrent moral high ground or genuine position of authority solid enough that would 'afford' them the right to 'afford' rights to or claim rights over any other group..human or alien.

The fact that people do do that, doesnt mean they have the Right to do so only that they have the opportunity or are or have been empowered with the ability to compel or force such a result.

If a group of aliens arrived here, their Rights, as sentient beings, would also be similarly inherent and I feel that our primary focus ought to be towards compelling them to aid us in comprehending what those Rights are and how they view those rights in regards to the rights of others.
Without that informed awareness, no decisions regarding social status or access etc can even begin to be made.

And...after that, I would consider my first priority to be seeing to the protection of *those* Rights - not to applying or attributing my Rights to them or 'at' them, based on my own value system, which may be entirely different from their own.
Respect.

Their rights would be based on a value system that we would need to learn and comprehend in order to evaluate against our own best collective apprectiation of our human value system. As it stands today, we simply do not know what we do not know and our own concepts of *human* and social Rights differ from region to region as it is.

Our answer to that problem to date has been to have or set in place a series of 'civil' rights that encompass all human sentient beings. A third option many agree to oblige themselves to. But many do not.
So if in that context we were to catagorically state that aliens at base, are to be given the same or equvilent status of 'human' on arrival, then the Rights and obligation issues are readily resolved and only comprehension of them becomes a factor.
Their comprehension of those obligations like their decision to agree to be obligated, remains as it is for us - a decision made activly, or not, to adhere to those conventions in order to be treated and valued 'the same as everyone else'.

Until we do know what and how they view Rights, and beyond understanding, until we actually comprehend an alien view of Rights and until we can empart to them a collective view of our own human values, "affording" them Rights or restricting their Rights would be like telling a blind person where light switch is....they can switch them on but still wont see anything, meaning it wont have any result to the blind person/alien themselves.

Assuming for a second that their arrival isnt a case of Cortez conquering the Andes...I supose any actions taken on arrival of aliens here will have a lot to do with the study of value systems that the aliens might have as those value systems define their *perception* of what Rights are and do...and so, they mitigate our responses to them - be that a fear/foe or friendship relationship.

If their values encompass attributes like ' I have the Right to eat you as prey' then I might want to reconsider these offerings of softly softly Saganistic approaches and simply get to the nearest bunker...but... if their value system and comprehension of the importance of Rights and the role of Rights to social security as a whole is comparable, equal to or more observed than our own, then I would hope we would listen..and learn..before we go about confusing them with our own confusions about what we think rights are and are not.



Rosha

Well, first of all, we shouldn't attack or kill them.
We should try to welcome them and officialy get to know them better.
We might become friends (I hope).

As to their rights on Planet Earth...Considering they have been here all along, coming back and forth, looking over us time to time... I think they should be allowed to come here officialy as they please and be allowed to live here if they want to. I think they should also be allowed to study us (not physically), as in culture. They already probably are doing this now, but having the opportunity to walk amongst us unhidden would be a great benefit. If they prove to be truely friendly by heart, then I guess there shouldn't be any problem. But if it will be like in V (looking good, but evil inside), I would demonstrate and shoot their butts.

In any case, we need to be careful and think. You can't ever know for sure.

See District 9.

One of the reasons I liked that movie so much was because im pretty sure thats exactly what would happen. Look at the way we treat each other? Look at the way we treat animals?

Now you have a being thats not a human, its not even an animal! So we'd kill it, without hesitation and if it had something of value? It'd be dead before it said "take". I mean, not me personally or the bulk of the people here, but rational people dont get a say in the real world, only the loons.


And can you imagine America? LOL, look at the way they see mexicans. If slightly darker skin & an accent is such a huge an issue Imagine a person that is not even the same species!!

I am aware the people of the world would condemn this but thats doesnt really mean much, we all condemn slavery but it doesnt stop us buying Nike, Apple and products from all the other companies that make a fortune thanks to it!!!

So what rights would they get? is dying a right?

Originally posted by AmmonSeth
So, here i am asking what you (regular citizens of earth & representatives of humanity) would like to see happen in this situatiion?

Treat them with respect, basically the GOLDEN RULE applied.
Allow them freedom to study and enjoy the Earth mabey they may add pointers from experiences they had that may help Earth inhabitants.
Give them a real global welcomming party that will last for a week so they can go around the world to see how we have fun and experience or positive vibes.
Try not to get to serious with them, welcome them if they are peaceful and fearless enough to land on a planet full of guns, we got to recognize they got real qualities.

Originally posted by AmmonSeth
Also, what would you find totally unacceptable (regards to poor treatment, or even if you consider something 'too nicer' treatment)

No Speciesisim any fool acting wrong out of hatred should just be seperated from the fun for the 7 day party. (cannot have some fool making mankind look like we cannot controll ourselves)
No Religion forced on them, if they have religion then ASK can we get an understanding of their belief systems.
No Interrogations on their technology.
No Questions on their technology, if they wanna share they will if they feel comfortable dont bug them.
No Testing on them have fun and see if species can together they may or may not possess emotions like human if not completely different.

So they commin in?

I think we should treat them like everyone else...you know just like normal humans do, try to trick them to pay taxes maybe get them some of those flu vaccines, entertain them with good quality T.V programs so they will forget the taxes and the vaccines efects, some McDonalds will do the rest.

Some may get tired of all that and try to go to one of those conspiracy forum and start posting idiots questions.

Seeing this OP reminded me of something I saw a while back.. Had to do some cross-checking to find it again..



[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/eba05e6d93db.gif[/atsimg] Image Source

To see the FULL statement click HERE. A brief quote from this statement is found below.

Statement of Aspirations

1. Visitors recognize and value the unique qualities of peace, compassion, hope, joy, healing and empathy ’individuals without distinction’ have developed as a result of living on a tremendously diverse planet with antagonistic histories, emotional traumas, legacies of violence; and predatory policies of competing political elites; and the contribution ’individuals without distinction’ can make as peacemakers, visionaries, and healers in interplanetary relations.

2. Visitors seeking to interact with Earth, recognize that we ’individuals without distinction’ have long been the visionary social reformers, peacemakers, healers, and truth seekers that have resolved many of our planet’s most intractable conflicts and promoted public awareness of the visitor’s presence, and therefore deserve primacy and majority representation in formal dialogues and negotiations conducted between visitors and representatives of global humanity.

3. Visitors and ’individuals without distinction’ in their relation to one another, need to consider themselves as both teachers and pupils, as sisters and brothers; and not as parents, authorities, or as saviors. Visitors recognize that they and ’individuals without distinction’ are in a partnership where each seeks to identify, nurture and exchange their unique contributions as planetary societies for their mutual benefit in a wider interplanetary community based on the principles of individuality, free will, sovereignty, and Universal Law.

4. ’Individuals without distinction’ and visitors are self-empowered as a result of their interactions, and mutual advancement is obtained through communication, sharing of knowledge, and expansion in all spheres of growth for humans and visitors.

5. During the first contact event, space vehicles of visitors above Earth’s population centers should appear in formations that use universal symbols of peace, love and joy. Light and holographic shows similar to fireworks displays and outdoor movies should also be extensively used to demonstrate the friendliness of the visitors, and their origins.

reply to post by AmmonSeth

I think it would be the very same a human would get,but that is a very good question my friend!!
[s and f]

good ufo radio to listen to while your on a.t.s..

I think they should have every unalienable right we enjoy.

Though I do think it will be interesting to see how we treat aliens who land en-masse as compared to illegal immigrants.

reply to post by AmmonSeth


Hey there AmmonSeth, how are you doing ?

Personally, I think people are making a natural mistake here ... a mistake that people would be pre-disposed to make in fact (human psychology ... gotta love it) !

'We are assuming that we should treat them like 'people' ... but aliens by their very nature are ... well ... 'alien' !

I think people ... especially TPTB ... should wait to see how the 'aliens' respond to us ... let's face it ... it's TPTB who are the ones most likely to exhibit the kind of kneejerk reaction that would carry enough weight to have a real influence on the end result ... and the wrong kind of (knee)jerk could trigger off all kinds of unwanted activity.

But I'm talking in sweeping generalized terms in response to a question very close to my heart ... lucky for you my old friend I'm not going to drag my soapbox from under the table (had a very busy day today) but if you haven't already done so, you might want to click 'The Atlantean Analysis' link in my signature ... it covers my theories / hypotheses about this subject and the other things you were specifically asking about when you first came to ATS (better late than never)

>>>Afterthought

The question of if we are alone is one that has yet to be answered, and many learned people has often thought about this question, along with what to do in the event we do actually meet a visitor from another planet, that were to show up.
Since this question has been around, there are protocals that are around, but there would be problems initially that would have to be overcome. The first problem would be keeping the general population away from the visitors for protection on both sides. The first problem would have to be overcome is that there would be an issue of diseases on both sides. On this planet, we have diseases that we combat, recieve innoculation against, have immunities for, and deal with on a yearly basis. Even our own body, we carry bacteria, and it is reasonable to believe that any exterestial species has its own bacteria, viruses, and other diseases, that they deal with.
Next is language, we speak many different language, so too would an exterrestial being have its own language.
So if a ship of exterestial nature were to land, the visitors would have to be put into quarantene for a time, in a clean room and the only contact would be done either behind windows through speakers, and the people they would first meet would be in biohazard suits. There would be pretty much a population the same size as a small city, of armed service personel, doctors, microbiologist, disease specialist, biologist, math professors, and linguistics to meet the visitors and then possibly a diplomat, but not the leader of any nation just yet, until after it is deemed safe. I would shutter to think what would happen if they actually landed on the planet and those who initially came in contact with them, as those people who made initial contact would also be put into a lockdown in a very horrid place for a good 6 months to prevent the spred of contagion. The only real way around this, would be for a fleet to show up over a majority of the earth, but that would scare the pants off of most people. But to show up, say You are not alone, and then leave, would actually be a thing of aw, and show that they mean no harm. If they stayed, then be worried.

They should only be aloud to date ugly chicks!!!