Just something all of you socialist/communist need to understand

Recently Castro said that the political model he designed will not work. He realized it, Russia realized it, China is becoming capitalist. It is time for you all to drop the idea that socialism/communism works and deal with what we have.

I know that in theory socialism and communism is a beautiful thing where everyone is happy and equal. But it has been proven that it does not work, so stop trying to shove it down America's throat.

news.yahoo.com...

reply to post by russ212


China isn't capitalist, democracy co-exist with capitalism but in China the communist party runs the country, no voting etc. I would say they created their own form of capitalism but with socialist 'rays'.

-Naeem

reply to post by russ212


Who's shoving it down anyone's throat? And socialism and communism are not the same thing. Plenty of European countries are socialist in nature and doing quite well. Capitalism is no more valid than communism, both are failed models. Unfortunately it will take some time before people realize this.

Oh please.
Is this because of healthcare reform by any chance?
Pure hysteria.
I know lots of Democrats, not one socialist and I haven't met a Communist since the 70's.
So WHO exactly is pushing for Communism?

Socialism is more similar to communisim than it is too capitalism. In a true socialist state, people are allowed to own their business, but the prices are set by the government, and government controls everything. In a communist country the government owns the business. What is the difference, you still can't charge what you want to in a socialist or communist nation.

Chin, is a communist nation, but they have moved to a more capitalist style of doing business. They are a really odd mix of communism and capitalism, it is really more of a facist state now than anything.

Yes this does have to do with the Presidents Social programs such as healthcare, and the stimulus.

It is being shoved down our throats right now. Lets tax the rich to help the poor. Lets provide free healthcare. There are laws being discussed that can tell you where you can live and where you can't.

Be green and put this meter on you thermostat that allows you house temp to be controlled by the government.

Yes. This governemnt is moving toward a socialist/communist agenda.

reply to post by OldDragger


Obama! The democrat party! Liberals! and even Republicans!

I think everyone should just completely abandon all names of political/economic systems, they are one in the same anyway. A society where the needs of people are adequately supported is what we need to build from first. There is no reason that some rich billionaire needs 80 rooms in his house when there are whole countries that are dieing of thirst. No one should be without food, water, shelter, and adequate energy supplies. I honestly wish we could have some poverty stricken nations come to ATS to show the mess they are living in due to the base political and economic systems, which is greed!

People like to say, then everyone will be lazy. I beg to differ, in a society where people aren't grinding for the basic needs will allow more potential for creativity and innovation. If someone just wants to sit at home and paint all day, good for them. However, there will always be those who want to progress science and technology and they will be able to reap the rewards of their success to there liking. People will always want more, but more doesn't mean you need to have a 5 million square foot house where every wall is an interconnected salt water aquarium!

Everyone, in my opinion, should contribute to the well being of the society but those who contribute more shouldn't feel like they are slaves working for peons, as is the case now with some people in America. Those who do choose to live at the lowest levels should be required to contribute something, like part of a harvest or water (moisture farming from Star Wars comes to mind).

The government should be a "holographic" democracy, with only true representatives of the people. The economic system should be a credit system with no interest rates, where using your credits will actually be encouraged so the whole economy can grow. Credit should be issued on how much you contribute to the society and should be used to make life even more sustainable. Lets face it, resources are there to be consumed and shouldn't be the base of an economic system. This way, those who contribute the most, get the most credits, and will be able to live at the level they have contributed.

Originally posted by russ212


I know that in theory socialism and communism is a beautiful thing where everyone is happy and equal. But it has been proven that it does not work, so stop trying to shove it down America's throat.

Actually many countries in Europe are Socialist and they enjoy a much higher standard of living than the US.

Don't let your ideology get in the way of your common sense.

Originally posted by russ212
reply to post by OldDragger

 

Obama! The democrat party! Liberals! and even Republicans!

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Uh huh.
I don't think you know what Communism is. No, I'm sure of it.
So you think they want to make all production worker owned?
I think the government is more interested in Corporatism than Communism.
Read a book, lay off the Fox news!

The government doesn't like real capitalism since that would give them less control. So we have a rather skewed capitalism that favors the rich. Socialism for the large corporations and something less than capitalism for the people. Corporations are obviously more important than people.

lol, says the man from recession land...

...if it is
inevitable that this small factional group perish, then
let it perish, as long as the Communist Party will grow
and develop. You look at the situation too pessimistically,
dear comrades of the American delegation. My
outlook is optimistic.

reply to post by OldDragger


Yeah, they don't want to own coorporations they just took over GM and several other major corps.

We don't need communism, socialism, capitalism... We need a new system. A system that rewards love and empathy. A system that unites religion and science. A system developed by the heart, not the brain, like all these other systems were.

Originally posted by russ212
reply to post by OldDragger

 

Yeah, they don't want to own coorporations

they just took over GM and several other major corps.

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That is just so dumb. You make it sound like Obama took office the just invaded GM.
They asked for money, PUBLIC money. Terms were part government ownership. Nobody forced GM.
Really, you might want to learn a little more than just parroting right wing propaganda.

reply to post by russ212


Failure of Bolsheviks, the disintegration of the Soviet Union, is a very powerful arguments against Marxs' idea of proletarian dictatorship. But some disagree, saying that the theory is good but it was not applied properly. I am a physicist and I disagree. Consider a scientist who wants to verify a theory and performs an experiment. If the experimental results agree with the theory then s/he concludes that the theory was correct. But if the results do not agree with expectations then s/he concludes that something was wrong with the experiment." Marx would not act in this way. He would use available data (gulag, collectivization, show trials, famines, etc.) and either revise or reject the theory.

Ludwik

Originally posted by russ212
reply to post by OldDragger

 

Yeah, they don't want to own coorporations

they just took over GM and several other major corps.

I still have stock in GM and still receive a dividend check every quarter. How is that possible if GM was taken over by the Obama crowd? And now for another shocker....I still own stock in HMOs, Health Ins. Companies and RCLs. But I'm sure you believe that Obama care is a federally operated program with no input from the stockholders or the overseeing corporate overlords.

This right wing crybaby mantra would almost be funny if it didn't show that a lot of the American electorate are so willing to embrace ignorance perpetrated by fools.


There is a whole world out there that apparently you aren't aware of. Take a break from the Rush, Sean, Savage lairs a do a tiny bit of research. You will be amazed!!!

I as a liberal resent your characterization as a socialist/communist. I am as entrepreneurial and as capitalistic as a businessman can be. I love the American free enterprise system but I'm deathly afraid of right wing fascism that masquerades as conservatism; that I see on the political horizon.

reply to post by russ212


And where is your evidence that capitalism works? You think capitalism works better? Take a look around, there's a child starving in America for every Street light in New York. People call the streets their home because they can't secure a job. People are denied SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN WORKING TREATMENTS FOR MAJOR HEALTH ISSUES LIKE CANCER AND MS because it simply cannot be patented because they are natural. Professional athletes make six to seven figures a year for playing a game while people who do real work often make four to five.

I am sorry, my friend, capitalism does not work at all. Money runs the country much more than the ideals of the people.

In terms of economics, US is beyond capitalism now. It is a plutocracy for the most part (when rich own the country). Think about it, the top 10% of your rich have far more resources then the rest combined. The entire point of socialism/communism is to abolish this type of rich supremacy.

It's not necessarily the system that fails imho. It's the people who eventually run that sytem who corrupt it. Like communism isn't that bad of idea for a system. However when you put a tyrant to run that system it will fail. Same with capitalism. It's not that bad of an idea but the problem as I see it is that it favors money. Money and politics should've always remained separate like religion and state. When the big corporations sleep in the same bed with the government the common people get screwed.

[Edit to add] Also when it comes to cuba I'm pretty sure Fidel is one helluva leader. They faced a disaster beyond our imagination and survived it when Soviet Union wen't down.