Taxpayers should directly control the budget since Congress wont

I was thinking about how we were ignored as a nation when the health care bill was shoved down our collective throats. I then reflected on the fact that the will of the people was ignored a great deal ever since the Federal Reserve took over the purse strings of the government and took that which was rightfully belonging to the people.

The decisions about what to do with our money has been going further out from the people for many years. It filters through more and more hands before it finally does the job it was supposed to do with this current system.

I have conceived a novel way to make a statement to the government they might find hard to ignore. The idea in brief is to give the people who pay the taxes into this government the right to directly control the budget. This idea would work like this. If you are a tax payer and sign up to a certain web site set up for just this purpose and log into a secure web form that contains the entire US budget that is being presented for a vote in congress. On each of the line items there is a check box for you to approve or disapprove that item. In essence as a taxpayer you are given a line item veto on the US budget.

This can be extended to state and city budgets on their respective sites using the same system. The idea is simple. It puts every line item up for a public referendum. If the public says they want something then it stays. If not then the congress has been forewarned so the mid term elections should not come as too much of a shock.

Any thoughts from anyone on how you think this type of system might impact the vote in congress. It could be extended to more issues and votes in the future but the budget is the biggest one at present.

Imagine if budget line items could be voted up or down in a reddit like forum. The difference is that it would have to be done with your taxpayer ID and then made private by some type of built in anonymous system that would give your vote some privacy. I can imagine the discussion threads.

reply to post by wayouttheredude


Why do we pay taxes again?

Oh yeah, the pay debt on our loans to the Fed.

Let's go upstream and solve that problem. America outsourced banking, no wonder corporations outsource everything else.

reply to post by zroth


My idea addresses the out of control spending. It is not able to in this context control the fact that we have a Foreign Banking Cartel in charge of our government. It is just designed to give us more of a voice on the budget.

Taxpayer defined:

(14) Taxpayer
The term “taxpayer” means any person subject to any internal revenue tax.

~26 U.S.C. Section 7701~

www.law.cornell.edu...

Taxpayer defined

(b) Taxpayer

Notwithstanding section 7701 (a)(14), the term “taxpayer” means any person subject to a tax under the applicable revenue law.

www.law.cornell.edu...

The term taxpayer has been specifically defined by Congress and it is in regard to the so called "Personal Income Tax". Any person subject to a tax under the applicable revenue law, or any internal revenue tax. What makes you liable for an internal revenue tax?

Is it by any chance 26 U.S.C. 5005?

§ 5005. Persons liable for tax

(a) General

The distiller or importer of distilled spirits shall be liable for the taxes imposed thereon by section 5001 (a)(1).

Are you a distiller, or importer of distilled spirits?

Maybe it is 26 U.S.C. 5703.

(a) Liability for tax

(1) Original liability

The manufacturer or importer of tobacco products and cigarette papers and tubes shall be liable for the taxes imposed thereon by section 5701.

Are you a manufacturer or importer of tobacco products? Take note how very specific these Sections of the tax code are when explaining liability and who is clearly subject to a tax. Don't distill, or import distilled spirits? Don't manufacture, or import tobacco products? Maybe then what makes you liable for a tax, and therefore subject to the internal revenue law is 26 U.S.C. Section 1.

1. Tax imposed

(a) Married individuals filing joint returns and surviving spouses There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of—

(1) every married individual (as defined in section 7703) who makes a single return jointly with his spouse under section 6013, and


(2) every surviving spouse (as defined in section 2 (a)),

Hmmmm, well if you are a married individual (as defined in section 7703), who earns taxable income, then I suppose you are liable for a tax Do you earn taxable income? What is taxable income?

63. Taxable income defined

(a) In general Except as provided in subsection (b), for purposes of this subtitle, the term “taxable income” means gross income minus the deductions allowed by this chapter (other than the standard deduction).

(b) Individuals who do not itemize their deductions In the case of an individual who does not elect to itemize his deductions for the taxable year, for purposes of this subtitle, the term “taxable income” means adjusted gross income, minus—

(1) the standard deduction, and

(2) the deduction for personal exemptions provided in section 151.

Well there you go, simple enough isn't it? In general, (Except as provided in subsection (b)), the term "taxable income" means gross income minus the deductions allowed by this chapter. Hmmmm, what is gross income? Sounds simple enough, doesn't it? Gross income is the money you make before you pay your taxes, but how does taxable income, meaning gross income explain how you were made liable in the first place? Hmmmmm, maybe we better see if there is a definition for gross income:

61. Gross income defined

(a) General definition Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle, gross income means all income from whatever source derived, including (but not limited to) the following items:

(1) Compensation for services, including fees, commissions, fringe benefits, and similar items;

(2) Gross income derived from business;

(3) Gains derived from dealings in property;

(4) Interest;

(5) Rents;

(6) Royalties;

(7) Dividends;

(8) Alimony and separate maintenance payments;

(9) Annuities;

(10) Income from life insurance and endowment contracts;

(11) Pensions;

(12) Income from discharge of indebtedness;

(13) Distributive share of partnership gross income;

(14) Income in respect of a decedent; and

(15) Income from an interest in an estate or trust.

Well there you go then, gross income means all income from whatever source derived. So, does this make it clear how you became liable for an income tax? If your a married person who in general makes deductions allowed and earns taxable income, which is defined as gross income, which is defined as any income from whatever source derived, then you are subject to an internal revenue tax. Of course, if you simply just distilled, or imported distilled spirits, it would be easier to understand how you became liable for a tax, and clear that a tax was being levied upon a specific activity, and the same goes if you were a manufacturer or importer of tobacco products, but if not, then you have to decide if you fit into the category of married individual who makes a single return jointly with his or her spouse, or decide that you are an individual who does not itemize his deductions, which then means you have a taxable year:

(b) Taxable year For purposes of this subtitle, the term “taxable year” means—

(1) the taxpayer’s annual accounting period, if it is a calendar year or a fiscal year;

Which takes us right back to taxpayer, and what is a taxpayer? Why a taxpayer is any person subject to any internal revenue tax? Wait a minute! Who's on first? That's right? Who's on first? That's right. Then who's on second? No what's on second. I don't know! He's on third.

Prior to the income tax collected in perpetuity the federal government did not have near the budgetary problems they have today. If you want to be a taxpayer, it is fairly certain the IRS will gladly accept your voluntary admission that you are a taxpayer. If you want to reign in Congress and their outrageous expenditures, perhaps it would be a good idea to figure out if you truly are liable for an income tax, and therefore a taxpayer which is subject to any internal revenue tax.

reply to post by wayouttheredude



I did not intent to derail the conversation.

The point I was trying to make is that it does not matter how well you treat the hostage. The crime is that we are being held against our will, so anything after that is irrelevant.

The citizens of this world are stuck in a vicious cycle of minutia. We align to one side of a particular polarity (e.g. red/blue, gay/straight, dom/rep, him/her, black/white) yet we are all connected on a single vessel flying through space and part of a single eco-system that supports everyone and everything.


We need to cut off the head of the snake to reclaim this world. Currency, in all forms, has created devolution on this planet. A budget is worthless in a false system.

Humanity has value but has been devalued for the material satisfaction of each of our senses.

Time to take the power back.

reply to post by zroth


Yes, what you said is absolutely true, the taxes go to pay debt, the interest on the dollars we Americans have already spent, not to mention the billions of dollars the government has already spent! We need to banish the FED and seize their assets, and give power to coin money back where it belongs, to the US Treasury, and impose a flat tax, a consumer tax you pay at the cash register. A consumer tax would fill the coffers real fast like, and the best thing is, everybody has to pay....no tax loop holes. Companies would come back pretty fast too, for without property, income, and hidden taxes, America would be a "tax shelter." The FED and the IRS are privately owned banking concerns, above the law, and without any oversight.

I really love the idea of the OP. A secure government website where everyone has a secure ID code to log in. Every budget concern is posted, and the People can vote yes or no on the site.
This could easily be accomplished. Better than letting a bunch of old men decide on our future.

Jean Paul Zodeaux!
Great post!

Back to the OP:

Actually...that's one marvelous idea.
But, the Internet is full of thieves and I've witnessed even the toughest code get cracked.
So, in a perfect world it's a great idea.
But we all know how bad Internet crime is.

You want to know how taxpayers can directly control the budget?

Stop paying taxes.
Your W2 is withheld by a private person inside your company.
You have the option to withhold your own taxes.
There is NO law stating you HAVE to have your taxes withheld by a private entity.
Now, get all 120 million taxpayers to stop paying taxes at the same time...

Then, you will start something.


But, of course, too many people fear losing their "American Dream" to stop paying taxes.





[edit on 6-8-2010 by havok]

Sounds good havok, so how do we go about convincing even 20% of the US working population to withhold their own taxes and not pay in? It would have to also include some of the richest Americans since most taxes are paid by what, the top 10% of earners?

It will never happen, but it would be nice if we had more say in what is spent.

About the health coverage, come on now, the guy is HONESTLY trying to reach a solution to a problem that REQUIRES some serious improvements to.

Just think, if Bush were still in office, he would have spent TWICE as much as Obama thus far, but it would have went directly to the WEALTHY folks and to MORE WAR spending.

Gotta have WAR, WAR, WAR, WAR spending and lots of money for the wealthy when a republican is in office!!!

I really hope for the sake of America and every other nation on the planet that we NEVER get another Republican in office EVER AGAIN!!

[edit on 6-8-2010 by Baloney]