A few more questions for those that believe in the chemtrail conspiracy

reply to post by Chadwickus


Well its good to hear you trust you Goverment to do the right thing by you..

I wish I thought the Goverment had my best interests at heart, but sadly I dont think they do...

Neither of us can prove our point because who knows whats really going on out there???

We have been lied to so many times in the past, present and you can be sure in the future....

Originally posted by KingAtlas
I hate to post this because someone will think im crazy, but it was just a stupid idea i had, which is probably wrong.Actually most likely wrong. And i hate posting somethign without knowing more about it but, this site is about sharing ideas right, even crazy ones? haha

Okay so we have all heard of the Planes dropping the chems right, but i was thinking, what if they are cloud-seeding? because of global warming, they dont want anyone freaking so the keep us full of rain by cloud-seeding even though the environment is changing. normalize the environment and no one will question the environment? Probly crazy talk haha just a thought.

This is in practice. It is not a conspiracy. Cloud seeding is being done all over the country. Here is a link to one companies website. They usually contract out to local city govt and such. I personally believe that this is wrong but unfortunately you can't own your property all the way up to the sky, only the land!!!!

www.nawcinc.com...

If you notice on the FAQs page they say that they have been experimenting with it since the 1940's and have been doing it since the 50's.

ALSO, They are currently "Chemtrailing" over the gulf of mexico right now with Corexit. They have been doing it both low to the ground and high in the sky.

It is real, it is not conspiracy, they are doing certain things out in the open, the technology is there.......
My Q though, if they have been practicing it since the 50's then have they been perfecting the technique? The answer is, of course they have. Now the question is which part of the disgracefully sinister military complex is applying this technology elsewhere?

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Look, I'm not a scientist, but contrails and chemtrails simply look different. I see both all the time and they're not the same. And don't ask me why, I don't produce them.

Originally posted by Cybernet
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

Look, I'm not a scientist, but contrails and chemtrails simply look different. I see both all the time and they're not the same. And don't ask me why, I don't produce them.

Well whats the difference in your opinion?

I look at the sky for a living, and Ive seen all types of contrails, dissipating ones, persisting ones, donuts on a rope trails and spreading ones.

reply to post by mutantgenius


Where do you get your misinformation???

ALSO, They are currently "Chemtrailing" over the gulf of mexico right now with Corexit. They have been doing it both low to the ground and high in the sky.

Whilst it's true that there has been some Corexit spraying in the Gulf...it is ALWAYS at low altitudes!

(I.E., just afew thoudand feet above the ocean, AT MOST).

Where did you get the idea Corexit was being "sprayed" at "high in the sky" as well?


Corexit spraying, crop dusting, even Agent Orange in vietnam...all very similar in their technique of application....LOW altitude.

Even in some urban and rural areas, there are occasions when pesticides (primarily for mosquito control purposes) have been sprayed. Those misisons usually employ helicopters. There will be cases of localized outbreaks of other pset infestations, and local spraying efforts, either from air, or ground too. these are NOT "secret", they are usually advertised to the public well in advance (when done in Urban areas. People with convertibles may wish to put their tops up, wash their cars the next day, etc, etc...)

You know, there are more volatile 'chemicals' coming from the people who make and post on these websites, claiming when they see normal airplane contrails, that they are some sort of mythical "chemtrail"...the 'chemicals' from them are CO2 and methane, spewing form their various bodily orifices....

Weedwhacker. A few thousand feet above sea level is high enough! Therefore, to be effective it doesn't have to be sprayed at almost ground level does it?

Also, if you read my post I explicity said, there is no conspiracy....there are many examples of "chemtrails" in current use, you named a few in your post. How is it a SECRET when we know of cloudseed technology, crop dusting, agent orange, aerial dispersants?

My question of wether there are other more insidious aerial spraying projects still remains. I wouldn't doubt for a second that there have been incidences of military testing on small areas of populous for testing.

Another thing which I mentioned in my original reply to the OP is the Monsanto Aluminum resistant seed, alot of the speculation is that there is Barium and Aluminum in chemtrails, which is in fact what they will be using when they implement their Weather Modification Program, but why would Monsanto corner that market already if there isn't yet a need for it?

BTW, they really do want to start spraying Aluminum into the atmosphere and they will begin implementing the program quite soon I'm sure. They are really gung-ho about it. It will be interesting to see if there are any changes in contrails then and if not, why not?

I do have a question for you though Oz weatherman. On my last trip to the UK I saw a plane flying near the one I was on with a humongous trail of white "smoke". When at altitude are contrails visible as when you are on the ground looking up?

reply to post by mutantgenius


Well...Since Oz lives in Australia, and it's the middle of the night there, allow me. (AND, since I am the pilot, and he is the meteorologist, makes more sense for me to reply, anyway...):

I do have a question for you though Oz weatherman. On my last trip to the UK I saw a plane flying near the one I was on with a humongous trail of white "smoke". When at altitude are contrails visible as when you are on the ground looking up?

Yes, contrails are just as visible when viewed from another airplane.

The white "smoke"?? Those were the contrails. "White", because that's what the ice crystals (indistinguishable, really, from normal cirrus clouds, also made of the same stuff) look like, when formed into the clouds...for that is, in essence, all that they are.

Here are some videos, I pulled them together and posted in another thread:

....a compilation of airliners making contrails, being filmed by other airline pilots, from inside the cockpit:




Sometimes, because it's JUST humid enough for them to form, but NOT for them to sustain:



"Air India 777 overtaking us 2000 feet below, Eastbound over Germany"



"Following a B777 overhead the ocean. Video taken from a B747 flightdeck. The 777 was flying at 36000' and we were just behind cruising 1000' below."



"Shot from MD11 cockpit of opposite airplane 1000ft below us"



"A470 enroute opposite traffic 1000 feet above Malaysian Airlines B747."



(This one videoed by a passenger...):



There are plenty more....





[edit on 28 July 2010 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by virgom129
reply to post by Chadwickus

 

and by ‘seeding’ these clouds to reflect more sunlight away from the Earth, global warming could be slowed

Sorry, sounds like seeding to me...

Like I said Chad, I'm not into the Chemtrails thing as a way to wipe out 90% of the worlds population but lets atleast agree we are being sprayed with things we dont know about...

No. The term "Cloud Seeding" has meant -- since at least the 1950s, and even earlier -- a specific method of coaxing rain out of rain clouds using chemicals such as silver iodide (such as what the Chinese did prior to the Olympics).

Perhaps that article you are talking about loosely used that term also. I think they should have used a different term than "cloud seeding", to avoid the obvious confusion.



[edit on 7/29/2010 by Soylent Green Is People]

Wait...

So, sulphate particulate atmospheric injection results in infrared scattering and absorption.

It scatters, or blocks some incoming solar radiation, and absorbs some.

Wouldn't this mean a surface cooling effect, and a negligible temperature effect at higher altitude?

Anyway, the time to apply tyhe sunscreen is during high pressure, hot dry air mass, to produce a surface cooling effect. This obviously is temporary.

Hey, WW:

I did mean 1 degree. But, what is a 1% difference in average temperature? Just wondering.

reply to post by __rich__


A 1% difference in average temperature?

Not that it's relevant....because any "average" one wishes to assign has rather broad implications, doesn't it?

What I mean is, should we include ALL the extremes of temperature, to include both poles, and the equator? And everything in-between?

I think this is symptomatic of just why the debate over so-called "global warming", or better, 'climate change', is still ongoing.

The Earth's environment is complex, chaotic, and just possibly may be virtually impossible to ever be able to adequately model, for predictive purposes.

Toss in the fact of the Earth's axial tilt, and therefore the seasonal variations, as the planet orbits...the ellipse of the orbit, and the variables of distance from the Sun (may not be a big factor, but we just don't know..), and other Solar and extra-Solar variables --- to include differences in the total energy emitted by the Sun in a cyclical manner, and the fact that our entire Solar System is constantly moving, en masse, and it is unknown if any extraneous material (such as increased amounts of dust, for instance) also may play a factor, if encountered during our 'travels' as we orbit about the center of our Galaxy....

There is still a great deal of data to collect, and studies to be undertaken...our science may be incapable....it certainly is hampered right now, by a lot of missing information.


I happen to think that the biota on this planet is remarkably adaptable. It is a harsh truth of nature, that only the fittest survive...they adapt, or they perish, eventually. Adaptation varies in almost infinite ways, too...depends on the level of environmental pressures, the type of changes, the organisms, and their rate of reproduction/mutation/adaptation abilities...

WE are the unique species, as we have a skill that others do not --- for survivability, we have technological abilities, and the intellect to use them, and invent new ones.

Reason the notion of any sort of wide-scale and currently on-going and active program of so-called "chemtrails" is a fantasy, is because of its incredibly difficult logistical hurdles, as I've often written, and also the fact that NO ONE has yet a definitve answer, and thus a course of action to embark upon.

Better to do NOTHING, rather than attempt some misguided effort, and endup making things worse by those actions.

I say do NOTHING, except the more passively oriented sorts of things already ongoing, such as 'cleaner" everything, recycling of waste, and efforts to reduce dependence on fossil fuels, just to name a few....

...because, again...this planet's biosphere is very resilient. Resilient in the sense that if 'damaged', it too will adapt. AND, I'm not sure that any significant changes will occur so rapidly, as to be noticeable...except as an "after-the-fact" sort of thing, over many, many human generations of recording data.

SO....although there is little doubt that Human activity over the entire course of the last nearly two centuries, since the advent of the Industrial Revolution has caused changes in our environment....even agriculture, involving our change from nomadic lifestyles, going on for thousands of years, have an effect too.

Yet, ALL of that has had a minimal cumulative effect, over all those years..."chemtrails" are simply an uber-paranoid delusional fantasy, as the science and efficacy behind them is still sketchy...regardless of those sources linked, previously. Those are still "paper tigers" of theory, and many people have made incredible claims in past, only to fail in the practical implementation efforts of their "grand ideas"...

Worst case scenario, and everything I've written about dire environmental consequences just over the horizon? That they ARE worse, going to get worse, and are accelerating? Well...WE can adapt, even if it's painful. As a species, WE can survive....I don't think the current biosphere has any danger of turning into another Venus, for example....and the reason we will endure, is the technological edge we enjoy.

Even without that, we STILL would survive, overall....just a lesser final population, I imagine...

Sorry....I got wordy, maybe from over-thinking the darn thing....

~~~~~

I almost forgot --- speaking of agriculture, that goes hand-in-hand with animal husbandry. I'm talking about herds of methane-spewing critters, here....creatures that, if not for us, might not have as great a chance at large population survival, in the face of predation in nature...

...still, I found this innovative possible "solution" to the methane problem:

( )

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b48ba78bf0c6.jpg[/atsimg]












[edit on 29 July 2010 by weedwhacker]

If it is not practical then why this
agriculturedefensecoalition.org... ???

Also a few other interesting things, especially the climate change committee which covers chemtrail operations beginning some time in the near future. If it is not practical then why is our government pushing to implement it on a global scale? Wouldn't that just be silly?

gop.science.house.gov...

www.youtube.com...


www.technologyreview.com...

Interesting website where I found all this info
www.geoengineeringwatch.org...

Originally posted by mutantgenius

My Q though, if they have been practicing it since the 50's then have they been perfecting the technique? The answer is, of course they have. Now the question is which part of the disgracefully sinister military complex is applying this technology elsewhere?

People have been pracitising clairvoyance for much longer, but that doesn't mean they can really communicate with the dead

The point being that their is still very little evidence that cloud seeding has much effect at all on precipitation. Though the companies selling their service will obviously state otherwise! Just as a clairvoyant will tell you he really can give you a message from great aunt Maud ...

reply to post by __rich__


The idea is to replicate the effects of the Mount Pinatubo eruption.

www.giss.nasa.gov...

Note that the aerosols are not visible as white clouds like contrails are, but as a thin haze - which would be not dissimilar to that seen across the N Hemisphere last summer after that big eruption in Siberia. Though I'm guessing 99.9% of folk never even saw those dust clouds ......

Not really sold on this chem-trail business. Even if it was happening, I don't think it would be for anything more sinister than modifying the atmosphere.

reply to post by mutantgenius

If it is not practical then why this
agriculturedefensecoalition.org... ???

If it's not practical, why these?

1. The combined plow and gun
Patent no 35600, issued 1862...
2. Device for waking persons from sleep
Patent no 256265, issued 1882...
3. Balloon propelled by eagles or vultures
Patent no 863087, issued 1887...
...
9. Alarm-equipped fork
US patent 5,421,089, issued 1995...

business.timesonline.co.uk...

The existence of a patent does not mean that invention is useful or even practical. It just means someone wants to make money if it gets used.

Also a few other interesting things, especially the climate change committee which covers chemtrail operations beginning some time in the near future. If it is not practical then why is our government pushing to implement it on a global scale? Wouldn't that just be silly?

gop.science.house.gov...

You posted a link to a photo gallery. Where does it say here that the US government is pushing for anything? The GOP's position is that global warming doesn't exist. I'm pretty sure the people that maintain the GOP science website are dead set against letting geo-engineering happen.

Here is a quote from the TR article you link, for those that are mouse impaired:

Aluminum is common in soils--it's a major component of clay--but only in acidic soils does the metal form an ion that can dissolve into liquids and that's toxic to plants. Acidic soils make up as much as half the world's croplands... Plant breeders are working on developing strains that can cope better with toxic aluminum, but they have only been able to make incremental improvements, Larsen says.

www.technologyreview.com...

Aluminum exists naturally in the Earth's crust. In in acidic soils, it can be toxic to plants. Researchers are trying to breed grains that will fare better, increasing productivity and allowing more people to be fed. How is this sinister?

Talk of geo-engineering does not equate to action. The majority of scientists either believe that it would not work, have dangerous unintended side effects, or simply be so expensive as to not be cost effective. None of this has anything to do with the contrails people are afraid of.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by __rich__

 

A 1% difference in average temperature?

Not that it's relevant....because any "average" one wishes to assign has rather broad implications, doesn't it?

What I mean is, should we include ALL the extremes of temperature, to include both poles, and the equator? And everything in-between?

I think this is symptomatic of just why the debate over so-called "global warming", or better, 'climate change', is still ongoing.

The Earth's environment is complex, chaotic, and just possibly may be virtually impossible to ever be able to adequately model, for predictive purposes.

Toss in the fact of the Earth's axial tilt, and therefore the seasonal variations, as the planet orbits...the ellipse of the orbit, and the variables of distance from the Sun (may not be a big factor, but we just don't know..), and other Solar and extra-Solar variables --- to include differences in the total energy emitted by the Sun in a cyclical manner, and the fact that our entire Solar System is constantly moving, en masse, and it is unknown if any extraneous material (such as increased amounts of dust, for instance) also may play a factor, if encountered during our 'travels' as we orbit about the center of our Galaxy....

There is still a great deal of data to collect, and studies to be undertaken...our science may be incapable....it certainly is hampered right now, by a lot of missing information.


I happen to think that the biota on this planet is remarkably adaptable. It is a harsh truth of nature, that only the fittest survive...they adapt, or they perish, eventually. Adaptation varies in almost infinite ways, too...depends on the level of environmental pressures, the type of changes, the organisms, and their rate of reproduction/mutation/adaptation abilities...

WE are the unique species, as we have a skill that others do not --- for survivability, we have technological abilities, and the intellect to use them, and invent new ones.

Reason the notion of any sort of wide-scale and currently on-going and active program of so-called "chemtrails" is a fantasy, is because of its incredibly difficult logistical hurdles, as I've often written, and also the fact that NO ONE has yet a definitve answer, and thus a course of action to embark upon.

Better to do NOTHING, rather than attempt some misguided effort, and endup making things worse by those actions.

I say do NOTHING, except the more passively oriented sorts of things already ongoing, such as 'cleaner" everything, recycling of waste, and efforts to reduce dependence on fossil fuels, just to name a few....

...because, again...this planet's biosphere is very resilient. Resilient in the sense that if 'damaged', it too will adapt. AND, I'm not sure that any significant changes will occur so rapidly, as to be noticeable...except as an "after-the-fact" sort of thing, over many, many human generations of recording data.

SO....although there is little doubt that Human activity over the entire course of the last nearly two centuries, since the advent of the Industrial Revolution has caused changes in our environment....even agriculture, involving our change from nomadic lifestyles, going on for thousands of years, have an effect too.

Yet, ALL of that has had a minimal cumulative effect, over all those years..."chemtrails" are simply an uber-paranoid delusional fantasy, as the science and efficacy behind them is still sketchy...regardless of those sources linked, previously. Those are still "paper tigers" of theory, and many people have made incredible claims in past, only to fail in the practical implementation efforts of their "grand ideas"...

Worst case scenario, and everything I've written about dire environmental consequences just over the horizon? That they ARE worse, going to get worse, and are accelerating? Well...WE can adapt, even if it's painful. As a species, WE can survive....I don't think the current biosphere has any danger of turning into another Venus, for example....and the reason we will endure, is the technological edge we enjoy.

Even without that, we STILL would survive, overall....just a lesser final population, I imagine...

Sorry....I got wordy, maybe from over-thinking the darn thing....

~~~~~

I almost forgot --- speaking of agriculture, that goes hand-in-hand with animal husbandry. I'm talking about herds of methane-spewing critters, here....creatures that, if not for us, might not have as great a chance at large population survival, in the face of predation in nature...

...still, I found this innovative possible "solution" to the methane problem:

(

)

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b48ba78bf0c6.jpg[/atsimg]












[edit on 29 July 2010 by weedwhacker]

Excellent post. I'm just a bit on the fence on whether or not such "options" should be used to forestall a natural extreme climate shift.

Or, what if humanity has inadvertently stalled the natural climatic cycles?

If it could be proven without a doubt that humanity was causing unstoppable global warming , then would it be acceptable to resort to such extreme measures, despite the risks involved?

Oh well, I don't know what is going on, but the evidence is there for great interest in sunlight scattering techniques to mitigate AGW.

There is definite incentive to blocking harmful UV rays over large areas during natural high pressure clear times.

Knowing what risks Government and Science has taken in the past, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think testing may have been or is being done.

I just found a very interesting video, quite by accident. In all my years flying for the airline, never saw this (of course, I didn't work in the maintenance department, nor did I hang around while they serviced the airplanes overnight!!)

I don't know if it's only Southwest Airlines doing this, but if it improves fuel economy, and is cost-effective, there's little doubt others will. Fuel costs are one of THE biggest chunks of overhead operating expenses for an airline, and saving even small percentages affect the bottom-line profits.

So, for those who STILL believe in the "chemtrail conspiracy", I invite you to notice how many people are involved in this operation, as shown in the video. AND, none of them see anything peculiar, I.E., NO "spraying" apparatus!

BTW..."motor the engine" means that the guy is in the cockpit, and engages the starter (which is driven by compressed air) to rotate the engine, but doesn't 'start' the engine, by adding fuel and ignition. Keep in mind, every engine/airframe combination has a time limitation for starter engagement, which is why he says he'll motor for only about two minutes.

A few notes from the video, as well:

The Dallas-based carrier is using the EcoPower system offered by East Hartford, Conn.-based flight technology firm Pratt & Whitney Global Service Partners. Terms of the deal weren't disclosed, but Pratt & Whitney said Southwest's annual fuel-cost savings could exceed $20 million. The airline also stands to cut 135 million pounds of carbon dioxide emissions annually as a result.

~~~~~

And, here is a photo of a modern Boeing 737 overhead panel. This is located right between the two pilots, easily within reach from either seat.

Every system on the airplne is up there...the center pedestal (not shown) has most of the communication/navigation functions located there, and the forward instrument panels have, of course, control displays, and many other informaitonal displays, and a few controls as well...point is, you can scour the Internet for visuals of the entire cockpit, and you WILL NOT FIND a control to opperate any "spraying" systems. If there WERE such a system, the controls would most likely be locate don the panel shown.

Also, this panel shows the Engine Start Switches...they are bottom of photo, that would be most forward, from pilto's perspective. White squarish knobs, positons labeled "GRD" (for 'ground'), "OFF", "CONT" ('continuous'), and "FLT" ('flight'). The last two are just to energize the ignitors, which are normally not active, unless selected on for various reasons.

Ignitors are on in the "GRD" position, of course...the switch is held magnetically, and releases automatically when engine speed sensors (@46% N2) record the proper RPM during the starting sequence procedure...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cd9230ec34bf.jpg[/atsimg]

Fuel "on/off" is controlled via mechanical levers, down below the throttle quadrant, located on the center pedestal.

Here's a video...this on a B-737-300, the photo above is a panel from a B-737-800, but there are only minor differences. They do not show the start switches in this one, but you can see the center forward instrument panel:







[edit on 31 July 2010 by weedwhacker]

First, anyone that is so condescending to those that think differently has a problem with inferiority, I believe. Reminds me of rush limbaugh.

As an AF brat, I grew up seeing contrails and they are not like the ones in the sky now. What flight patterns crisscross like that? Why don't they dissipate for an hour or so? Living near 3 AF bases (one now closed) and an international airport, no activity from them accounts for this. This is a deliberate pattern to disperse whatever it is they are spewing.

I have also read accounts of pilots, maintenance people, and a higher up who have seen the modified innards of aircraft to accommodate the chemicals and/or who know this is what is happening. I'm discerning of what I read and these rang true to me.

I can't answer your questions as you wanted, but had to put in my 2 cents. I believe they are out to harm us. If you choose to believe differently, that's fine, but don't attack me for thinking as I do.

reply to post by cajajo


I believe you should read the rest of the thread...or any of the dozens others. But, since it seems many come along, scan, read the first an dlast posts only ---

As an AF brat, I grew up seeing contrails and they are not like the ones in the sky now. What flight patterns crisscross like that?

Flights that are on courses that take them say....East/West, and other flights that are traveling North/South. See?

There are a huge number of variations in between, as well. Any glance at a map, and then a look at airline route structures between various city pairs will make this very obvious.

Why don't they dissipate for an hour or so?

Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't.

It is completely dependent on the nature of the airmass, at the time...the levels of water vapor that are present, and the temperature, and the stability of the air, and the conditions approaching...such as a moving weather front, or other such changes underway. The atmosphere is in constant state of change.


[

Living near 3 AF bases (one now closed) and an international airport, no activity from them accounts for this. This is a deliberate pattern to disperse whatever it is they are spewing.

Irrelevant, as is constantly being pointed out.

The airplanes making contrails are PASSING BY your location! NOT arriving/departing locally. Proximity to local airfields is not an indication of contrail activity...except inasmuch as a particular city MIGHT happen to be under a great deal of passing traffic, overhead.

I have also read accounts of pilots, maintenance people, and a higher up who have seen the modified innards of aircraft...

Proven to be a hoax. Do a more thorough search, and you will see.

i have a little other theory ive read some where about the chemicals in chemtrails and ther whas some chemechals that protect us from sun radiation so for some reason i connect it whit the solarstorm warning.

maybe the goverment now somthing they dont tell maybe a solarstorm would be more devestating then we think and the chemtrails are here to protect every one on earth from sun radiation