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I need some advice on what to do...

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posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 09:57 PM
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So, I didn't really know where to put this, mods feel free to move it at your discretion. Anyways, I live in Australia, I've just heard on the news I need to submit my enrollment form to vote before 8pm tonight. I understand it is the law that you must vote here, so does that mean I must submit this enrollment form or be fined? I didn't vote last time, and I didn't receive a fine yet. It's been a few years since I finished school and I still haven't enrolled to vote. I'm thinking there may be some loop hole where if I don't enroll I don't have to vote, and that's why I haven't been fined? Maybe something like the freeman society or something, I was reading about that the other day and it sounded very interesting, though Dad was telling me they banned that in Australia, is he correct?

I'm just hoping some ATS member(s) might have advice for me, because I really don't know much about the law and politics, it's all just too absurd for me to bother dealing with, let alone Australian law, I spend more time reading about American laws and politics on ATS anyway, which is still a rarity. I feel trapped and cornered here. I was born into a system that offers me no choice but submission to it's laws and rules and implemented way of life, and I don't want to vote for a single one of those retards, I do not agree to be Governed by any of them, or Governed by any one single figure head for that matter.


As soon as you vote, you consent to be governed. You're basically giving consent to the government to make decisions for you.. You become part of "That society" the "law society". Therefore you have to follow their rules.
I read that in another forum recently where he was talking about the freeman movement...is it anything like that in Australia? Thanks for any help.

[edit on 18/7/10 by CHA0S]




posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by CHA0S
 


Dont enroll if you dont want to vote. But make sure you choose carefully. Once on the roll, you dont got off it. Also your privacy can be invaded (address etc)... so my advice? Dont enroll.

Dave



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by daptodave
 




Dont enroll if you dont want to vote.
Hmmm, you sure it's that simple here in Australia...what are the repercussions of not enrolling? Is there anything like the freeman movement in Australia? I need more details...



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by CHA0S
 


I'm just hoping some ATS member(s) might have advice for me, because I really don't much about the law and politics, it's all just too absurd for me to bother dealing with,




Well, apparently it's not absurd enough to prevent you from starting a thread about it.


Have you taken the time to research this information..?


As for contemplating this the day you have to make a decision...big time rookie move. But something tells me you're comfortable with this status.





edit for gmmaarr

[edit on 18-7-2010 by facelift]



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 10:23 PM
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We are not required to vote in the US but they highly encourage it. They govern us whether we vote or not.



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by facelift
 




Well, apparently it's not absurd enough to prevent you from starting a thread about it.
I knew some one was going to bring that up...you make a fair point, I had no interest until it actually effected me (but I still believe it's absurd
).


Have you taken the time to research this information..?


As for contemplating this the day you have to make a decision...big time rookie move. But something tells me you're comfortable with this status.
As I said, this came up rather quick, I only just heard about it on the news. I don't research this stuff often, as I've mentioned, and I'm just hoping some ATS members in the know can sum up a few of the details relating to Australian law. I am doing a bit of my own research, but I'm still churning through it all for useful stuff, and it is all rather technical and I am a rookie as we've made clear...

[edit on 18/7/10 by CHA0S]



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 10:55 PM
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Well despite the views of those in the US, it is law to vote here, so you can ignore what they say, they dont understand our system.

While you are required by Australian law to vote (& therefore enroll) this problem that thousands may have this election is the fault of Labour, they didnt even let the election commission know in time to prepare, not that the nation didnt get enough warning it was coming via media speculation.

IF they send you a fine, you have the option to contest it in writing, you do not have to go to court & they wont take it that far for a $50 (approx) fine anyhow.

I have been sent several fines for not voting, but I simply sent a reply telling them to stick their fine, I was away with the Army serving the nation & was nowhere near a polling place. I never heard a word back from them.

If you cant enroll in time & they do send a fine (which I highly doubt) then just explain in a letter (ALWAYS put things in writing when dealing with a government department, I learnt that the hard way with Vet Affairs);

1. You work or go to school/uni & were unable to attend an AEC office in the 8 business hours you have been given today.
2. To enroll online you must have a printer & a scanner. Explain you do not have access to this equipment & therefore were unable to enroll online.
3. The Labour party did not give the AEC nor the population enough time to prepare for the election, therefore you were unable to enroll via post.

These are the only 3 ways to enroll & time is against you & many others. There will be so many in the same situation, they wont even bother. If you can, good, but I wouldnt stress about it, Labour is in a panic & obviously dont want the young vote or they would have given more time.



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by SNAFU38
 


Ok, that was extremely helpful, so I'm pretty much in the boat I thought I was, but you suggest I shouldn't be so worried about enrolling because they made it so sudden...and I can try to contest it if I do get fined...but I guess my real question is...can I keep putting off this enrollment and avoid voting, even if there is a fine each time?



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 11:42 PM
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Glad to be of help. As with most posts on ATS, it is just my opinion based on personal experience & my research that personal experience led me to.

I am also, unfortunately, experienced in dealing with the Govt, mainly Vet Affairs, but they all think the same. This has also led me to learning parts of the law as required.

I was disputing my fines back in the 90's so it may have changed a little, but I seriously doubt it. From my experience & understanding of the law, the 3 reason I listed last post should provide enough backing for you to successfully avoid the fine, this election, & as I said, you will be one of thousands in the same situation. Theres just too many fish for them to fry this year, they have votes to count etc etc, but dont forget state elections coming up.

No, you can not keep putting it off, & theres no reason why you should. Though I cringe at 18yo kids voting when they are just legal to drink, you should have your say & as you get older you will appreciate it.

I know, voting is a pain in the butt, having to go to a school & line up, getting hassled by people handing out how to vote cards etc, but unfortunately it is law & they will catch you one day, unless you can live without any form of income, be it work or pension, they will work it out one day, your name enters the system some how, drivers licence, tax etc etc.

Basically, I do not think that they will even bother chasing down new voters, if your in your 20's or older, they will look at why you didnt enroll a lot harder though. I dont think they will even consider chasing down people this time, especially with the news coverage of this particular problem. If all else fails, they cant prove you dont have a scanner, & theres always ACA & Today Tonight who love a free story to tell.

Personally if I were you, Id print out an enrollment form or get one from the post office & mail it to them (free post). Make sure it is dated today so 'technically' you started the process before the deadline (another legal hitch for them, it was the best you could do with the time given). You will miss out this time, but you wont have to worry about it ever again, other than change of address details.

One final thing, you should easily find an application as a postal voter, it may even just be a tick box on the enrollment form. I am a postal voter so they send me the ballot papers weeks before state or federal elections, I dont have to leave the home to vote.

Though I can prove I have a valid medical reason not to stand in a cue to vote, I have never had to prove it nor even have my GP agree with me, so I dont know how hard they check on that. Maybe their system showed Im on a Vets pension & that was enough, or maybe they just dont check.

Good luck, I wouldnt stress this year but with the publicity of it, Im sure they will be onto it next time & check on enrollments more enthusiastically.



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by SNAFU38
 




I know, voting is a pain in the butt, having to go to a school & line up, getting hassled by people handing out how to vote cards etc, but unfortunately it is law & they will catch you one day,
It's not really that it's a hassle...it's just that I don't think it's fair to HAVE to submit to a certain Government system just because you were born into it, especially when you don't like how it operates, or the people you have to vote for...I will however most likely just enroll and save the trouble...so who's it gunna be for me...the douche or the turd sandwich...

PS- Thanks a lot for the help, I think I understand all I need to know.

[edit on 18/7/10 by CHA0S]



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 11:58 PM
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I've never been sent any mail asking me to enroll or vote & I'm 27 , so I haven't voted and I haven't been fined yet either .
I'm a little curious as to why I haven't been sent enrollment forms yet as most people I know have.
Just lucky I guess



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by Takka
 


Interesting...perhaps there is some sort of loop hole in the frame work that prevents them from fining you if you haven't enrolled...



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 12:22 AM
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I think Takka raises a point Im also curious about, I dont know how they do it or find you. Ive never been sent a form, I knew I had to get one from the post office so I (or my mother) did. Ive never heard of them sending out enrollment forms ever, its up to us to avoid the fine just as it is up to us to find any entitlements we may have.

As for our unfortunate options, Abbott is a douche, no question, he has no personality, BUT personality should not be the issue, we'd all vote Miranda Kerr if she ran because she has a personality & is, well, hot.

However, Gillard & Labour (& their TV/Rock stars) have kept providing ample ingredients for our turd sandwich, I have not seen one election promise they made in '07 kept other than that sorry the English should have made (not our govt). Does ANYone know a kid that got the promised computer ? They keep going back on promises & are now bringing out the working solutions of Howards era. They have no idea, how can you turn a $90B surplus into so much crippling debt ? Then blame it on the people who made the surplus ??

In 2007 Australia voted on personality grounds, ie anyone was better than Costello taking over from Howard mid term, he has as much personality as Abbott, so the majority voted in a liar who screwed the nation & only got through the GFC thanks to Howards team.

We need to ignore personalities at the top, they will all be off our TV soon enough, we need to look at the team behind the leaders. The labour team will continue to screw us up due to confusion, incompetence & ignorance. The team behind Abbott may be lead by a Quinby, but the team is proven to work.

If only Joe Hockey was leading the Libs, the numbers would be much different. Look at the team behind the leaders Australia, we know from recent experience, the team has as much if not more power than the leader, hence Rudds demise.



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by SNAFU38
 




Ive never heard of them sending out enrollment forms ever
I've got a pile of them in my draw...though they do stop wasting paper eventually...I'm waiting to see if they start sending me them again...



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 01:04 AM
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If they have sent you a pile of them, they know your of legal age to vote & are expecting you to. Id be a little more cautious now, they have proof they gave you the opportunity to enroll before this screw up.



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 06:28 PM
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I can't believe you didn't enroll to vote - how lame.

You can be fined - though its rarely enforced.

Voting is one of few tools we have to work with in our democracy - and you didn't bother to enroll - whats the point of being a citizen? I'm sorry, but that is just despicable in my opinion.

Don't vote Labor and Liberal - vote for one of the other 25 parties that are running.

I don't know if you did or didn't enroll - but anyone who doesn't vote is the major douche or turdsandwich in my books.

I personally am voting greens and controlling all my own preferences for the lower house and the upper house - and I emphatically urge everyone to do the same.



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 07:32 PM
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reply to post by ghostsoldier
 


Cant agree with you more, I thought voting sucked as a kid but then I grew up & woke up.

Im not going to watch any of the debates, they are guaranteed to be long, frustrating arguments sprouting the same lines & it is making me sick.

The fact is you cant trust any of the major political parties & the 'novelty' parties have no substance, let alone ability to run a nation. Im going Liberal because I know they can get us out of the red without oppressing our lifestyle any more than it is.

It would be a nice change if we actually had political parties that worked together to fix the issues, rather than chant slogans & make reference to decades ago. I dont want my politicians arguing on every topic just because they 'have to' oppose the others, it just goes nowhere & gets nothing done.

The joy of being a postal voter, I have the luxury of taking my time over days to get it right.



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 08:05 PM
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reply to post by SNAFU38
 


This is my preference order for this year.


Vote 01 Greens
Vote 02 Socialist Alliance
Vote 03 Communist Alliance
Vote 04 Socialist Equality Party
Vote 05 Australian Democrats
Vote 06 Secular Party of Australia
Vote 07 Australian Sex Party
Vote 08 Senator On-Line
Vote 09 One-Nation
Vote 10 Citzens Electoral Council
Vote 11 Carers Alliance
Vote 12 Liberal Democratic Party
Vote 13 Australian Labor Party (ALP)
Vote 14 Building Australia Party
Vote 15 The Climate Sceptics
Vote 16 Non-Custodial Parents Party (Equal Parenting)
Vote 17 Democratic Labor Party (DLP) of Australia
Vote 18 Family First Party
Vote 19 Christian Democratic Party (Fred Nile Group)
Vote 20 Shooters and Fishers Party
Vote 21 Country Liberals
Vote 22 National Party of Australia
Vote 23 Liberal Party of Australia
Vote 24 Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party
Vote 25 Australia First Party


Voting Liberal is a step backwards in my opinion - by voting Greens you send a message to the major parties on the direction you want to see the country go.

The greens have a chance to win 3 lower house seats
And are likely to go from 5 senators to 9 in the upperhouse.
They're not as weak as you think, and I'm predicting a 15%+ primary vote - they are the fastest growing party in Australia.

They have a much better policy agenda than Libor or Laberal - check it out if you dont believe me.

Australian Greens Policy



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by ghostsoldier
 



Originally posted by ghostsoldier
I can't believe you didn't enroll to vote - how lame.

Lol
As if my vote is seriously going to make any difference .


I'm sorry, but that is just despicable in my opinion.

I think your getting a little carried away now mate .


anyone who doesn't vote is the major douche or turdsandwich in my books.

And yet you vote for the Greens , which you know as well as I is a useless vote , its either labor or liberal that has any chance , so your admitting your vote counts for nothing



I personally am voting greens

Go for it , it is a vote which will count for nothing , so you may as well not even vote in the first place . If it gives you some satisfaction knowing its pointless then I'm happy for you



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 01:08 AM
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reply to post by ghostsoldier
 


Well as the greens leader himself said, vote for whoever, it doesnt matter. The greens are giving their preferences to labour, so a vote for the greens is a vote for labour, unless you dont believe their leader.

If you are concerned about going backwards, then dont vote labour (& therefore, considering preferences, the greens also), you are going backwards if you vote for either. They have realised their policies are a failure & are now reinstating the old liberal policies, therefore backwards (in time, forward in terms of Australias overall health), however a move to the better option for the nations growth.

Labour, in its adoption of the Libs policies, nomatter how they label & refute it, is inadvertantly admitting they failed (hence they sacked the leader we voted for) & the Libs had it right. No ifs, no buts, they failed & are going BACK to Howards way. Nobody can deny that, abandoning your own failed policies & adopting an old policy IS going back, no argument about it.

As for voting communist, I hear Siberia has a lot of cheap land. I dont mind a smart government running our lives, thats why we vote for them, but communism ?? & the sex party, climate skeptics (thats a new one). Sometimes I wish voting wasnt law here so those too lazy to think will hopefully be too lazy to vote.

As for checking things out, check out your spell checker, it is Labour & Liberal, check it out if you dont believe me. Oh, & have it set on international english, not US english, hence the extra 'U' for those about to correct me.



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