Italy described by a Italian

---NORTH ITALY---

Think about 1960s decade Germany. Italy is not much different. We in the North, where I live, we have better security, better school education, better police control.
Every work that consists into taking money from other people is very remunerative in here.
Street vigilants are everywhere, same for autovelox machines.

Crime is low or average, depends from the area, Veneto area is still in the " high crime " range.
In my area we still have a lot of people who are dieing from amianto related disease.
We had toxic substances into house's roofs and house's material.
Children were used to play into the famous white dust, that was extremely toxic.

My house had amianto and many houses around here still need amianto to be brought away.

Most of the schools have more Albanian/ Morocco people than Italians. Children are used to have almost all of their friends foreigners.

Society for the youngs is based on school results. The better you get, the more friends you have.

Currently, almost every teenager and people in their 20s works into restaurants and as educators of children into summer campus and into schools.
Getting a real job is very hard.

Universities are very very valuable and they teach a lot.

Most teenagers in here are against the government and they would like the 1960s to come back.
One of my best friends has been a rioter for a while.

--- SOUTH ITALY ---

Well, its a jungle. A real jungle. You will find everything bad and good in here.
The places are amazing, the north is already all made of buildings and big cities, our only hope are the beautiful mountains.

In here, crime is not high, is absolutely high. Out of control in Naples and in Sicily.
I have family in the South and I think in 20 years I've seen a policeman only 2 or 3 times.
POST NOTE: I don't mean in Sicily. I mean in Puglia.
Compared to the daily group of policemen you see in the North, this is amazing in a sad way.

Well, there are no rules. Lots of olds and young don't have a helmet when they run high velocity on motorbikes.

You can be killed for not giving your cellphone, your bag or for not lending a cigarette to people who are notoriously violent.

In Naples, crime is sometimes made of organized minor " mini - criminals " that in group of 10 or so, act like a sort of Mafia and force the other guys to show up money when requested, penalty is death.

Police control is not existing. Basically, you can do whatever you want. They know who is Mafia and who is not, but they wait for the next big crime, always bigger than the previous one , to act.
Everybody is in the know, but they prefer to gossip instead of calling police fo action, otherwise their teenager childrens will be killed in the open, in a cold way.

Society in here, for youth, is based on who is the best party organizer. School is poorly organized, so they get all kind of good results without being geniuses, without much of a struggle, they get the best.

Every teenager , or better, most of them, have their jobs organized by family and they help their family.

People work a lot or they don't work at all, many are hopeless and they don't feel is worthy to struggle for making a good thing of this country.

North is all words and no action. They don't do enough.

Really , crime in south Italy is like having a Gaza...Every day we hear of people who were eliminated, robbed and such.

People don't throw away anything, everything they own is old because everything new is always brought away from thiefs.
Cars are very old, technology is somehow worst than the north.

We usually have a month of vacation into the South. In teh first week, one year, our car was almost brought away from thiefs 5 times.

People don't buy much from shops. Morocco guys and Indian guys are much preferred, obviously is supposed to be illegal in here...

Any question?



[edit on 13-7-2010 by Zagari]

[edit on 13-7-2010 by Zagari]

[edit on 13-7-2010 by Zagari]

You can be killed for not giving your cellphone, your bag or for not lending a cigarette to people who are notoriously violent.

It isn't anything like that here in Vancouver, BC (usually) Aren't there any vigilante snipers or something or Vigilantes generally who try to get rid of the violent criminals who have the run of the place?

Yeah.

Like in that movie called Boondock saints.

I've heard Naples is pretty smelly to. Does it still... stink. I've been in Genua in the North and things were a lot like here. I've been in Tuscany, Florence, Pisa... Things were in between. I've been on Elba which can not be used to compare. I've also been to Palermo and that was as if I was in a bee hive. Total chaos.

Torella del Sannio is gorgeous (Molise, CB). I can't picture much crime there.

You coming from the North, and feeling so "educated" and better than the south, should know -of all people- that the question between the un-even development between Italy's north and south was thoroughly explored by Antonio Gramsci in his response against Benedetto Croce's fascist invectives.

If the north has grown so wealthy, it has done so at the cost of exploiting Italy's south through hegemonic and discursive means, as a way to gain access to its resources.

This has been historically so since the middle ages.

I get this despective under-current when reading your post. I wonder if Victor Manuel and Giuseppe Garibaldi got it all wrong when preaching unity.

reply to post by Zagari

We in the North, where I live, we have better security, better manners,

What manners do you show here to ATS with your lies?
And you think just because you have 'autovelox' machines? (Condom vending machines) that makes you better?
What, you have to buy them on the street like a dog who can't control himself? Not wait for the farmacia?

Everybody is in the know, but they prefer to gossip instead of calling police for action, otherwise their teenager childrens will be killed in the open, in a cold way.

Love for a child is the MOST IMPORTANT thing there is.
Sicilian Mother's know this well.
As do the sons and daughters who have true respect and love for their families.
You do not pain the street red by making a telephone call to the Caribinieri and call it love.

People don't throw away anything, everything they own is old because everything new is always brought away from thiefs.
Cars are very old, technology is somehow worst than the north.

We usually have a month of vacation into the South. In teh first week, one year, our car was almost brought away from thiefs 5 times.

People don't buy much from shops. Morocco guys and Indian guys are much preferred, obviously is supposed to be illegal in here...

No, here in Sicily we don't throw everything away, we don't live like people in the North who can afford to. And we can't sell used to others with the taxes to pay, again and again.

And yes, the outside of our houses are not beautiful but family sees the beautiful inside and that is all that is important, not the outside 'Window dressing' like the North who have no place to go for Sunday pranzo but a corner Trattoria.

Techonology is worse, yes. Out town has only one ISP and it is broken more than it works.
No problem, we spend more time outside growing our food and 'regina' and less time playing video games and posting on YouTube.
And we still work while you come down from the North for your month of vacation.
Who do you think is working at the Lido's and Bars and Discoteca so you have your fun?

The Senegalese and Marocchino sell for cheaper money, but, if you really knew Sicilia, you'd know it's the Chinese that are ruining the towns and the shops. We all suffer together against their invasion.

I have family in the South and I think in 20 years I've seen a policeman only 2 or 3 times.
Compared to the daily group of policemen you see in the North, this is amazing in a sad way.

Then you did not open your eyes did you?
There are police everywhere here in Sicilia! And the Caribinieri! And the Guardie di finanza!
And they do their best.

I'm done with this - I'm not wasting any more of my time trying to reason with a Bugiardo.

I don't know what the point of your thread is, or why you come here and lie to ATS about Sicily, but it is not well done of you.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1fe7ca2b46fb.jpg[/atsimg]

This is where you come for vacation.

This is where WE LIVE!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0f5fc6c3a95d.jpg[/atsimg]

lasci mi in pace


[edit on 13-7-2010 by silo13]

I've never been personally in Sicily. I have family in Puglia. Most of my description was about Puglia.

Interesting anyway. We have a view from the North Piemonte and a view from the South Sicilia.

I gave you a star.

Well, there are no rules. Lots of olds and young don't have a helmet when they run high velocity on motorbikes.

And DON'T tell me this is false. I know what I saw in the South.


I would like to add a point: North doesn't like over - control and South would be in need of over- control...

I don't know much about the police situation in Sicily...

My focus was on Puglia.

This is where you come for vacation.

I said I have family in the South. Doesn't mean Sicily.
And a note...Just to say...My family always told me its better if I stay away from Sicilia and Calabria...They wouldn't be nice if I decided to go on vacation right there.


And " What manners do you show here to ATS with your lies? "

What , WHAT lies are you talking about?


[edit on 13-7-2010 by Zagari]

[edit on 13-7-2010 by Zagari]

[edit on 13-7-2010 by Zagari]

[edit on 13-7-2010 by Zagari]

[edit on 13-7-2010 by Zagari]

Okay, I will add something more:

- We in the North use to go out in la Via Roma in the afternoon.

Fact is, that I LOVE go out in the center city during night. Its much more enjoying.
In the South this is the norm and I usually enjoy much more la Via Roma of the Gargano in Puglia ( won't say which city ) than the one in my Piemonte town.

I was wrong about the manners, sorry, I feel like the South people are much more open than the North ones.

The vita di famiglia is much more valuable in the South, people actually demonstrate affection and love.

I would say that in the month every year I spend in the South ( Puglia ) it always seem like another world.
Yes, people shout both in here and both in Puglia, my town is not much quiet.
But at least in the North there isn't the venditore di patate ( potatoes truck ) that wakes you up at 7 am!!!

I would always live near the sea and I feel like I belong to Puglia people ( My family is from Puglia and Veneto ).

My grandfather and my father for a while worked as raccoglitori di pomodori ( tomatoes ) and I admire what they did.
My grandfather had his life shortened to 60 years because of that work...Car accident with that damned Ape vehicle ( that for me is a damned thing that shouldn't be able to run on the streets ).

Damned Ape vehicles!!! Slower than a turtle...

This year I have in the plannings that I will go on holiday with my family half the month and I will than remain there with my nonna for the rest of the month, in August.

Really, if the situation with crime was better, I would had thought about moving in Puglia...But crime in there makes me think differently.

But no one will take my place in the spiaggia!!!

[edit on 13-7-2010 by Zagari]

[edit on 13-7-2010 by Zagari]

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by Zagari

 

We in the North, where I live, we have better security, better manners,

What manners do you show here to ATS with your lies?
And you think just because you have 'autovelox' machines? (Condom vending machines) that makes you better?
What, you have to buy them on the street like a dog who can't control himself? Not wait for the farmacia?

Everybody is in the know, but they prefer to gossip instead of calling police for action, otherwise their teenager childrens will be killed in the open, in a cold way.

Love for a child is the MOST IMPORTANT thing there is.
Sicilian Mother's know this well.
As do the sons and daughters who have true respect and love for their families.
You do not pain the street red by making a telephone call to the Caribinieri and call it love.

People don't throw away anything, everything they own is old because everything new is always brought away from thiefs.
Cars are very old, technology is somehow worst than the north.

We usually have a month of vacation into the South. In teh first week, one year, our car was almost brought away from thiefs 5 times.

People don't buy much from shops. Morocco guys and Indian guys are much preferred, obviously is supposed to be illegal in here...

No, here in Sicily we don't throw everything away, we don't live like people in the North who can afford to. And we can't sell used to others with the taxes to pay, again and again.

And yes, the outside of our houses are not beautiful but family sees the beautiful inside and that is all that is important, not the outside 'Window dressing' like the North who have no place to go for Sunday pranzo but a corner Trattoria.

Techonology is worse, yes. Out town has only one ISP and it is broken more than it works.
No problem, we spend more time outside growing our food and 'regina' and less time playing video games and posting on YouTube.
And we still work while you come down from the North for your month of vacation.
Who do you think is working at the Lido's and Bars and Discoteca so you have your fun?

The Senegalese and Marocchino sell for cheaper money, but, if you really knew Sicilia, you'd know it's the Chinese that are ruining the towns and the shops. We all suffer together against their invasion.

I have family in the South and I think in 20 years I've seen a policeman only 2 or 3 times.
Compared to the daily group of policemen you see in the North, this is amazing in a sad way.

Then you did not open your eyes did you?
There are police everywhere here in Sicilia! And the Caribinieri! And the Guardie di finanza!
And they do their best.

I'm done with this - I'm not wasting any more of my time trying to reason with a Bugiardo.

I don't know what the point of your thread is, or why you come here and lie to ATS about Sicily, but it is not well done of you.

lasci mi in pace


[edit on 13-7-2010 by silo13]

My family is from North Italy and I lived there for many years. But most of my friends there are from the south, I like how they can be happy even if they don't have too much, and what they have they share.

But these same friends told me many times that It's true North Italy is more civilized than the south, and that is why they moved to north. Bologna (NORTH), has the oldest university of the wolrd, so no questions about culture.

Last time I arrived to Milan (NORTH), I was about to be assaulted outside the train station by about 10 guys. 2 carabinieri showed up in the very last minuted saving me, they told me those were albanians. Then, they advised me to get out quick, because those albanians might come back as soon these policemen leave me alone again. Scary thing.

I never had been in South Italy, but is because is too expensive. If you live there and have a good job, somehow you're lucky.

My family in the north have everything they need to have a decent life and they wouldn't move to America for any reason. They say "too modern". I don't know what that means.

NON LITIGARE, TUTTI SIAMO ITALIANI.

and like my father used to say...."Mangia bene, caga forte, e non temere la morte."

vi voglio bene.

[edit on 13-7-2010 by Trueman]

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[edit on 14-7-2010 by Zagari]

[edit on 14-7-2010 by Zagari]

I've visited Southern Italy, a small town named Callabrito which is somewhat near Naples. Preferred it to the North - it had much more character and flavour.
The crime situation in Naples and surrounding area was talked about. In all fairness, I don't know much about it, as I only drove through every now and then. I heard there were a lot of robbers who rob cars at traffic lights, and our driver was a little fearful of this.
Your thread is VERY dramatic though.

I'm an American. I was last in Italy about 15 years ago on my honeymoon. We visited Venice, Florence, Rome+Vatican and Naples. Wish we had had more time to go other places, esp. in the south which is less like USA. Some highlights:

Florence was a ripoff. The restaurant wouldn't serve me a free glass of water, they would sell me water or beer or another drink, they all cost about $7. I think Italians paid these prices too so it's not just a tourist trap. Just a trap, period. But it was scenic and the Uffizi museum was very good of course. My new wife spent about a half hour staring at the statue of David. My name's David too, but I don't have that physique.

Venice was OK. It's sinking into the ocean. It is unique.

Rome has all the sights but it's the typical big city in some ways. I remember being on the bus and about 20 people crowd onto the bus, including a couple of nuns going to or from the Vatican. Only the nuns paid the fare, everyone else just ignored the cash box and crammed into the bus. When we commented on that to the guy next to us, he said "It's Italy!" cheerfully.

We went to the Vatican and learned that that day the Pope was going to give his weekly public audience. The guard (dressed up in that colorful striped outfit) told us the tickets were all gone. We looked sad. Then he said "But you can go in without a ticket!" We were happy. He told us how to go, and nobody demanded a ticket. The audience was huge, the pope was way at the front and we could barely see him, but it was cool. We're not big in organized religion, but it's nice how they welcomed us at the Vatican.

Naples had a sinister spirit to it. We liked it, it was our favorite of the cities! I guess we're a bit sinister ourselves. All the cars were tiny white Fiats and they all had dents. It was certainly the most beautiful of the cities we visited. It was chaotic, but we are pretty chaotic people ourselves. And it was more like real life than a place like Florence where we just didn't feel rich enough to be there.

I didn't go to Bologna or Milano, but I didn't hear they were overrun with immigrants when we were there. I guess that's more recent. And the immigrants have children, unlike the native Italians who hardly have children any more. So the kids in schools are immigrant children. I don't know how the country demoralized the people so they don't make babies any more. Is it because life is too expensive vs. what one can earn? Same as the USA, the immigrant hispanics have more children per family than the native people who were already here.

How are Chinese destroying the economy in Sicily? I'm really curious to understand that. I know they are good businessmen, is it that the shops end up being run by the Chinese rather than the original Italians? Or is it more than that? Some countries, like Malaysia, have laws that preserve some privilege for natives, because otherwise everyone knows the Chinese will take over everything.

Thank you for reading my outsider's reflections!