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I want to believe...

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posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 06:28 PM
I went on a journey to reclaim my Catholic faith and this is what I found:

I really wanted to believe that the Bible is the word of God.

I really wanted to believe that Jesus Christ is the one & only God.

I really wanted to believe that Jesus was born of a virgin & was ressurected from the dead.

I didn't want to believe that homosexuality was wrong, that those who do not convert to Christianity by the Judgement will burn in hell, that those who involve themselves with anything remotely occult-like (such as reading a Harry Potter novel) was going to hell--but I was willing to entertain such notions if it meant fully grasping this true word of God.

I was troubled by the Church's track record on killing & maiming non-believers--but I figured if we take the Bible literally it says things like "a sorceress must be put to death" & other somesuch, so I guess it's all ok.

I really wanted to be a good Christian & not question anything & not do anymore research into the origins of Christianity -- I realized in order for this all to work, I needed blind faith.

But after this journey that I took (& reading many books on the origins & history of Christianity), my heart tells me that:

The Bible is made up of a diverse bunch of texts that were specifically chosen by a group of people in order to support their view of the world--and that many many texts that did not jibe with their view of the world (or that would threaten their authority) were deliberately left out (and later hunted down & burned). Then the Bible was translated and retranslated and edited throughout the centuries -- further obscuring the original texts. So what we have is a copy of a copy of a copy of a book that was put together by people w/a very marked agenda -- not the direct word of God.

The best and truest way to regard & worship Jesus Christ is as another symbolic representative of The All-Knowing, of the All-Compassionate. He is a very potent archetype in our collective psyche -- and when I say "archetype", I do not mean to say that He does not exist. And I do not mean to say that He cannot be powerful, or that He cannot answer prayers. But He is not this cartoon character that goes around spouting fire & brimstone & telling people that they're going to go to Hell. I think that this simplistic cartoon character representation of Christ that is so bandied about for so many centuries may be comforting to many but is not really Him.

And I think that if the supposedly All-Powerful, All-Compassionate one really had a bee in his bonnet about things like gays, a children's book about magic, and people worshipping an elephant or a goddess or choosing not to worship a deity at all--if He was to condemn people to eternal torture for these things--then I weep for this world, because that means our Creator is petty & insane.

And I don't think there is anything wrong with a group of people believing some religion with all their heart, with all their Faith--unless they feel the need to hate, persecute, discriminate against, and hurt (and kill) other people based on this religion.

I am open to hear any reasons why the Bible really is the word of God, why it should be taken literally, and why disbelievers, homosexuals, and other somesuch should burn in the eternal flames--other than: "because it really is the word of God, it should be taken literally, and of course all those groups you mentioned should suffer in hell because Jesus said so."

posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 06:31 PM
The things you mentioned are not even a point in christianity, when you read the list of the things that God hates remember that homosexuality isn't the only thing, do you ever hear a sermon on gossiping? No because everone gossips at some point. Do you ever hear a sermon on gluttony? No, because we have all over eaten at some time. Preachers like to point out the things that they don't do, or they pick on the women and lay on them all kinds of regulations.
The point is we are not God and cannot be God. That's why Jesus took our sins upon himself and that we could live in our sinful state. Now if we faithe in Jesus God sees us as just like Jesus...we know we're not but God sees us that way, so we pass out from under His wrath and judgement.
We are not to change our habits and lifestyles when we become christians we just trust God to so the changing, and then in hindsight we will notice that we no longer do certain things...not because we consciously made a decision not to do a certain thing. If we try to do it ourself then the focus is taken off of Christ and His power to change us and the focus is put on our selves...that's when we get into trouble !
Too many preachers out there are not teaching the God of the Bible, or the Christ of the Bible...they only speak of His love and compassion...never His anger, or raging temper at those who would demean God and His house and His words. The language Jesus used when speaking to the Jewish elite of the day were pretty strong words for those days.
If Jesus were to come back here today he would not be accepted in many churches.
He treated women like they had never been treated, He gave them as much importance as He did the men. Mary was commended for spending her time listening to Him, while Martha worked. Jesus wants us to pay attention to Him, not trying to work at being a christian.
If you have a relationship with someone, you know alot about them...when forming friendships you find out about their likes and dislikes, their history, where they came from, what's important to's the same with God, too many people want the short version of who He is, they don't want to take the time to get to know Him.
If you're looking for that relationship on the net you're looking at the wrong place...too many funkamentalists out there that want to harp on you, sayin, Jesus saves gotta do this and you gotta do that. Forget all that and just get to know Jesus.
The only preacher I found in all my years of searching is Dr. Gene Scott...he's not out to impress anyone, as a matter of fact he turns many people off with his no BS kind of teaching....that's what I like, Honesty and respect for God's word with no gimmicks

posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 09:05 PM
I am not able enough to debate with you or advise you in any way. It comes down to you, and God. No one else.

I'm not a "Christian". I do believe in a "Supreme Being" I do attend church on occasion, I do read the bible and I don't just mean simply "read" the book. I listen to what is inside me and have sense enough to know when I should follow my heart, or my head etc.. (OK, not all the time) :shk:

Anyway, what I want to say is this; The most important words you wrote are "I want to believe". That's all you need to feel inside to continue in your personal search, and I do mean *personal*Here again I'll refer you back to my first little paragraph. If you want, then don't let others come between you and God. Not anyone is going to be seeking what you seek or living how you live. You are the only *you* that this world has.

That's all. I wish you well in your journey.

posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 02:41 PM

That is an excellent post. You really hit the nail on the head in a number of areas regarding the problems and fallacies of Christianity.

I agree with the two people that responded on one key point: we must all find "God" in our own way; however we conceive Him/Her/It/They to be.

If one does not find an affinity to the Jesus energies, one should look elsewhere, all the while living by The Golden Rule.

It is illogical to assume that eternal life is achieved not through good works and by living a moral existence, but simply by giving lip service to a local "deity." This reminds me of the old pagan practices. You know, the YOU MUST BOW TO GROK OR YOUR SOUL WILL BE DESTROYED kind of ideology, espoused by archaic priests in front of large statues, that makes little sense.

Good works and living a moral existence is how we are judged in the Spirit, not by our affinity to any prophet of old.

If the Judeo-Christian god is truly God, then there would be absolutely no question. Everyone on the planet would be of the same religion. Why? Because the power to create bread, to manifest wine from water, and to heal people on an individual basis, is MINISCULE next to the power to create BILLIONS OF GALAXIES.

The former smacks of an angel prophet (i.e., someone who channeled a large group of basically spiritual discarnates who gave him his various Gifts). The latter is indicative of the power of The Original Creator. I therefore conclude that He has yet to come and that He had nothing to do with the formation of ANY of the world's traditional religions.

Now, show me a God Prophet that can heal hundreds, even thousands of people at once, and then you have a strong argument supportive of his divinity. But in the course of my life I have witnessed many minor miracles manifested by large Group Entities that claim to represent "God" and none of them are anywhere near as impressive as they need to be in order to truly represent The Original Creator and His power in heaven.

But that's just my experience and opinion as a spiritual medium and metaphysical counselor.

posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 03:11 PM

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Now, show me a God Prophet that can heal hundreds, even thousands of people at once, and then you have a strong argument supportive of his divinity. But in the course of my life I have witnessed many minor miracles manifested by large Group Entities that claim to represent "God" and none of them are anywhere near as impressive as they need to be in order to truly represent The Original Creator and His power in heaven.

Yes, this is very insightful & true. I've read recently about the Greek concept of a "Daimon." A daimon is supposed to be anything that is not God (not Judeo-Christian, but just the concept of an Ultimate Creator) or human. This includes gods (small g), nymphs, angels, fairies, etc. I think that while the Christian pantheon does have some power & divinity, they are not the Ultimate; they are one in many pantheons of daimons.

posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 12:10 PM
You said you wanted to believe but u can only see the bible as a fairytale. it is not, it is a love letter from God.

From a catholic upbringing its easy to see God as a mighty powerfull judge who wants to sentance all who dont believe in him.
He is a judge. He is also the compleate expression of love and longs to lavish his love upon you. I posted something called letter from the father which was not written by me but its made up of a lot of bible verses telling of Gods love. He is the father of the fatherless. I never knew my dad. I know God, and he gives me the amazing privalidge of calling him father, something so presious I cant even describe it. Thats the father, he loves to pour out blessings upon you, it says in psalm 92 that there is nothing but goodness in him. All good things in your life that have been truly good come from him.

You also said later on "why dont we see miracles" yoyu suggested that christians must only pray to a god not an all powerfull being. Its easy to get this impression and ill tell you why you dont see miracles. A lot of the church in englad and in western countrys do not believe in the miracle power of Jesus. They say lord if it be your will heal this man. They do not even know it is always Gods will to heal!. in john 14 Jesus says "Ask anything in my name and I will do it so the work of the son may bring glory to the father, yes ask anything in my name and I will do it!"

go to or org im not sure. Thats the website for christ for all nations. the evangelist of it is reinhard bonkee who has seen in one meeting a million people come to know Jesus. Iv got a video raised from the dead which interviews a man who was raised from the dead. One of my friends is a midwife and she heard about one of the worst births the hospital had seen for ages. the baby was 11 pounds and had stopped breathing for 10- 15 minuites, after another 10 they got a heart beat and then the baby was blue and fitting, there was no way it would survive. My firend and a few of my friends p[rayed for it and it got better and better. it should have died or been servearly brain damaged. all of the brain is working although a great part has been shown to be dead. it has baffled the doctors.

posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 01:12 PM
you might find something in this.

Mom and Dad re: Religious Rivalries

Dear Children (and believe us, that's all of you), We consider ourselves pretty patient folks. For instance, look at the Grand Canyon. It took millions of years to get it right
We've been patient through your fashions, civilizations, wars and schemes.

We want to let you know about some of the things that are starting to tick Us off.

First of all, your religious rivalries are driving Us up a wall. Enough already! Let's get one thing straight: These are YOUR religions, not Ours. We're beyond them all. Every one of your religions claims there is only one of Us (which by the way, is absolutely true). And each claims its scriptures were written personally by us, and that all the other scriptures are man-made. How do We even begin to put a stop to such complicated nonsense?

Okay, listen up now. We're your Father AND Mother, and We don't play favorites among Our children.

Also, We hate to break it to you, but We don't write. Our longhand is awful, and We've always been more of "doers" anyway. So, ALL of your books, including those Bibles, were written by men and women. They were inspired, remarkable people, but they also made mistakes here and there. We made sure of that so that you would never trust a written word more than your own living heart.
You see, one human being to Us, even a bum on the street, is worth more than all the Holy Books in the world. That's just the kind of folks we are. Our spirit is not a historical thing. It's alive right here, right now, as fresh as your next breath.
Holy books and religious rites are sacred and powerful, but not more so than the least of you. They were only meant to steer you in the right direction, not to keep you arguing with each other, and certainly not to keep you from trusting your own personal connection with Us.

Which brings Us to Our next point about your nonsense; you act like We need you and your religions to stick up for Us or "win souls" for Our sake. Please, don't do Us any favors. We can stand quite well on our own, thank you. We don't need you to defend Us, and We don't need constant credit. We just want you to be good to each other.

The thing is, We want you to stop thinking of religion as some sort of loyalty pledge to Us.
The true purpose of your religion is so that YOU can become more aware of Us, not the other way around. Believe Us, We know you already. We know what's in each of your hearts, and We love you with no strings attached.
Lighten up and enjoy Us. That's what religion is best for.

What you seem to forget is how mysterious We are.
You look at the petty differences in your Scriptures and say, "Well, if THIS is the truth, then THAT can't be!" But instead of trying to figure out Our Paradoxes and Unfathomable Nature, which by the way, you NEVER will, why not open your hearts to the simple common threads in all religions.
You know what We're talking about. Love and respect everyone. Be kind, even when life is scary or confusing. Take courage and be of good cheer, for We are always with you. Learn how to be quiet, so you can hear Our still, small voice. (We don't like to shout).

Leave the world a better place by living your life with dignity and gracefulness, for you are Our Own Children. Hold back nothing from life, for the parts of you that can die surely will, and the parts that can't, won't.

Simple stuff. Why do you keep making it so complicated? It's like you're always looking for an excuse to be upset. And We're very tired of being your main excuse. Do you think We care whether you call Us: Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, Diana, Wakantonka, Brahma, Cerridwen, Father, Mother, God, Goddess or even the Void of Nirvana? Do you think We care which of Our special children you feel closest to, Jesus, Mary, Buddha, Krishna, Gerald, Mohammed or any of the others? You can call Us and Our Special Ones any name you choose, if only you would go about Our business of loving one another as We love you. How can you keep neglecting something so simple?

We're not telling you to abandon your religions. Enjoy your religions, honor them, and learn from them, just as you should enjoy, honor, and learn from your parents.
Know that Our Special Children, the ones that your religions revolve around, all live in the same place, (Our heart), and they get along perfectly, We assure you.

The clergy must stop creating a myth of sibling rivalry where there is none. Our blessed children of Earth, the world has grown too small for your pervasive religious bigotries and confusion. The whole planet is connected by air travel, satellite dishes, telephones, fax machines, rock concerts, diseases, and mutual needs and concerns.
Get with the program! If you really want to help, then commit yourselves to figuring out how to feed your hungry, clothe your naked, protect your abused, and shelter your poor. And just as importantly, make your own everyday life a shining example of kindness and good humor. We've given you all the resources you need, if only you abandon your fear of each other and begin living, loving and laughing together.

We're not really ticked off. We just wanted to grab your attention because We hate to see you suffer.

In Perfect Love and Perfect Trust,


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