Six Months to Go Until The Largest Tax Hikes in History

You Americans SHOULD be paying higher taxes....

I know... I know the MORE money you give your gov't the more they will spend but taxes, I feel, NEED to be increased... Especially since your new healthcare bill was passed.

We pay out the ying-yang in taxes in Canada, but I don't mind because our debt isn't out of control, we got the worlds best schools basically and don't need to worry when I break a bone.

If you read the article, we are not talking about rich people. We're talking about you and me. We're talking about middle and lower classes. It is not the tax cuts at the higher tax brackets that is causing this. That logic is flawed. Please read the article before making assumptions. This is as a result for across the board tax cuts made in 2003 that are expiring. Ir is also as a result of the income ranges on the AMT not being adjusted for inflation.

The saddest part to me is this is going to be another hit to our educational system.

Obviously those poor socialists never figured out the Republican's Grand evil design. They realized that through the natural cycle of government that they were probably going to lose control of the government and the Presidency for 2008-2012. They designed those tax cuts to expire in 2010 just to crash the economy. Knowing Democrats are too stupid to recognize a poison pill strategy.

Elections are won or lost on the economy. And right now the Democrats are so fouling things up its likely they will lose a good number of seat in congress this year. And the Presidency in 2012.

Like it or not it's rich people that create jobs and keep the tax system running. Killing the geese that lays the golden eggs is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Even if all they did was save the money it's still got to go somewhere. Stocks, bonds. or even just being spent on extravagances still means the money is still in the system.

Clearly the socialists and communists on this board have never studied economics. Its been proven time and time again that cutting high taxes causes economic growth spurts. And ironically tax revenues go up as well. The trick is finding the sweet spot where you get high tax revenue and high economic activity.

Excessive taxes are bad. Economic activity slows and people are fired. Businesses downsize or close.

And bye-bye Democrats in 2012.

reply to post by CanadianDream420


I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes IF the money was paying for my basic needs. Fuel, housing, food, clothing, education, utilities and healthcare are NOT free and they are EXPENSIVE here in the US.

Originally posted by AllexxisF1
Oh you mean those tax cuts that benefited the super rich?

Those tax cuts that exploded the deficit?

That tax cut which we had to borrow from China to pay which devalued our currency even more.

You must mean those tax cuts that were going to create millions of new jobs when rich people got to keep more of their money right?

Oh wait...the rich got to keep their money, exploded our deficit and started ZERO new jobs in the process.

Chalk one up for the Conservative failed ideology.



[edit on 2-7-2010 by AllexxisF1]

[edit on 2-7-2010 by AllexxisF1]

Would you like some cookies with your Kool-Aid?

reply to post by CanadianDream420

How about this thought?
When I see Canadian military bases all over the world, and tens of thousands of Canadians fighting overseas wars for empire, I will listen to your advice.
Deal?

reply to post by CanadianDream420


Totally. 307 million people making 10-30K should pay more so 600 people making 70-150K can spend more.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by thisguyrighthere]

Originally posted by AllexxisF1
Oh you mean those tax cuts that benefited the super rich?

I guess that depends on the blinders your wearing

- The 10% bracket rises to an expanded 15%
- The 25% bracket rises to 28%
- The 28% bracket rises to 31%
- The 33% bracket rises to 36%
- The 35% bracket rises to 39.6%

Those tax cuts that exploded the deficit?

I thought it was all the spending

That tax cut which we had to borrow from China to pay which devalued our currency even more.

You must mean those tax cuts that were going to create millions of new jobs when rich people got to keep more of their money right?

Oh wait...the rich got to keep their money, exploded our deficit and started ZERO new jobs in the process.

No, I think this is what he meant.

Higher taxes on marriage and family...

The return of the Death Tax...

Higher tax rates on savers and investors...

Source

Originally posted by dbloch7986
reply to post by CanadianDream420

 

I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes IF the money was paying for my basic needs. Fuel, housing, food, clothing, education, utilities and healthcare are NOT free and they are EXPENSIVE here in the US.

You HAVE to stop saying that, because every generation says it, and taxes go up, and services go down every single time. ALWAYS.

Never has a tax increase ever increased public services. NEVER. The money gets wasted, every single time.

Look at education. Every time crappy public education gets a light shone on it, they say what? "We need more money!" What the hell have you been doing with the "more money" we gave you LAST time??

It's time to stop these tax-happy politicians for good. No where else does a dollar have more power than in the pocket of a citizen.

reply to post by mhc_70


You got that right. The deficit exploded because of SPENDING. Not because of tax cuts. This government is.out of control. It has snowballed into a massive money sucking machine. With inflation across the board this will cause irreversible damage to the economy.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by dbloch7986
reply to post by CanadianDream420

 

I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes IF the money was paying for my basic needs. Fuel, housing, food, clothing, education, utilities and healthcare are NOT free and they are EXPENSIVE here in the US.

You HAVE to stop saying that, because every generation says it, and taxes go up, and services go down every single time. ALWAYS.

Never has a tax increase ever increased public services. NEVER. The money gets wasted, every single time.

Look at education. Every time crappy public education gets a light shone on it, they say what? "We need more money!" What the hell have you been doing with the "more money" we gave you LAST time??

It's time to stop these tax-happy politicians for good. No where else does a dollar have more power than in the pocket of a citizen.

Spot on!

reply to post by AllexxisF1


So the solution is to raise taxes and screw over the middle class and small business owners? Wow, that makes a lot of sense.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


You made my point. If my taxes paid for utilities, food, housing, healthcare and transportation like they should then I would be okay with it. But they don't, and I'm smart enough to know they won't (case-in-point: social security). So I don't need to be paying all the taxes that I do just so Nancy Pelosi can ride around in her Air Force private jets to go home for vacation and so welfare recepients here in CA can go to strip clubs.

reply to post by groingrinder


"poor" people don't play the market. Gives them incentive to get an education, make good life choices, make some money so that they can.

Now as it relates to the folks who work hard for their money, most of them work for small businesses which get hammered with this tax policy. They get hammered, folks get paid less, fewer people get hired. For folks who are counting on their retirement accounts or investments to pay for things like college educations, they get massively hammered. When the economy tanks, equities lose value and the accounts get hammered accordingly.

Retirement accounts are governed under ERISA which prohibits the institutional money managers who run the money (yes those are the evil bankers) from employing investment strategies that are utilized by the private investor (i.e. rich person) to avoid the consequences of this government foolishness. It is the plumber, teacher, cop who gets hammered the most when the equity markets tank.

80% of Americans hold equities, either directly or via mutual funds. They get hammered with higher taxes. As I said, the rich have other options, hence the rich get richer under these policies.

Now we can talk about American competetiveness. When the governments fiscal policy creates a poor equity market, corporations have less capital, lending institutions hold back credit and the first thing that gets hammered is research and development (right behind company contributions to retirement accounts). That drains innovation from American business, degrades our competetive advantage and over a reasonable short period of time based on the short cycle of a high-tech economy, kills jobs.

How many people do you think leave the job market when taxes go up? A ton. How many women will not work because the marginal benefit of working relative to the cost of child care makes it simply not worth it? Personally I don't want those brains out of the US economy. How many folks who have money will either cut back on their labor or sit on the sidelines until things get better? A lot. How many smart, innovative folks in engineering jobs will take their company equity and take a break while this foolishness goes on, deciding its just not worth it to work while the government is confiscating an increasing amount of their hard-earned money. A bunch. How many firms will move overseas to avoid the increasingly burdensome tax policy coupled with the US regulatory policy? A ton. There is a reason why there are more IPOs on the London exchange now than the NY exchange. More shareholder value is created by moving to Europe.

The folks in business friendly places like Singapore and India are licking their chops right now.

If other Asian countries like Tawain, Korea or China ever get their act together and created environments friendly for foreign business, with a reasonable set of intellectual property protections and a reasonably level playing field relative to domestic firms, this economy is going to tank and it is not going to come back.

Perhaps thats what folks want. Obama saying last week that no country should have an "unfair" advantage in the world economy certainly suggests that he is as supportive of a welfare state of soverign nations as much as he is the domestic welfare state.

Good luch to him and good luck to us.

Frankly, today economic power is a matter of national security and I believe what he is doing now is dangerous.

Originally posted by Quickfix
reply to post by AllexxisF1

 

You do realize that China did not save the U.S. from collapse.

It was the U.S. taxpayer.

Just so you know.

Excellent point. This is exactly the reason why we should not have to pay more taxes and we should force the government to cut spending instead.

Originally posted by mhc_70

I guess that depends on the blinders your wearing

- The 10% bracket rises to an expanded 15%
- The 25% bracket rises to 28%
- The 28% bracket rises to 31%
- The 33% bracket rises to 36%
- The 35% bracket rises to 39.6%

Great post but to put it into a better perspective because a lot of people don't understand how bad this is.

Th 10% bracket rising to 15% is not a 5% increase, it is a 50% increase. If you earned $8,000 now, you would be taxed $800. When the Bush cuts expire, that $800 liability will turn into $1,200.

The next bracket 25% to 28% is not a 3% increase either, it is a 12% increase.

The next bracket, 28% to 31%, is a 10.7% increase.

The next bracket, 33% to 36%, 9% increase.

The next bracket, 35% to 39.6%, a 13% increase. You will be making over 375k a year in this bracket.

Except for the end bracket, this is regressive taxation. Can a person who earns only $8,000 afford a 50% tax increase? Can a person earning $40,000 afford to ge slapped with a 10.7% tax increase?

The Obama administration and the democrat party knows full well that the expiration of the Bush tax cuts will equate to a huge tax increase on the poor, thats why they like spouting the super rich nonsense.

Yet how many super rich will have their tax liability increased by 50%? Why does no one notice that the poor and the middle class are gonna eat it hard?

So to those who think that the Bush tax cuts are evil...

Do you really want to increase the tax liability of the super poor by 50%?

reply to post by dolphinfan


I can't respond to what you said because you said it all in a nutshell. Sadly the one screaming that its the rich people's fault and blame the Republicans gets all the stars. But you are well versed in the ways of macroeconomics.

I hope that whomever gets elected in November can solve this before it becomes a real crisis. This increased tax burden coupled with the burdens of Obamacare on small businesses will devastate our innovativeness and our economy. We will lose our position in the world as a superpower in everything except the military.

God forbid we become a welfare state. It didn't work for Russia, California or Greece. Why would it work for the US?

What a bunch of BS. These are not tax hikes. This is the expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts that have exploded the deficit and on top of unfunded wars and Medicare Part D are the FACTUAL cause of the disaster that is now the American economy. The ignorant will rant Obama is to blame, but those that do reveal both their stupidity, ignorance and their inability to sort fact from fiction.

It is a fact that the top tax rate is only 35% and that is for the very wealthy. Back in the 60's it was as high as 93%. Since the myth of Trickle Down (Supply Side) economic, the tax rate for the rich has been slashed, putting the burden more and more on the backs of the middle class (or what remains of it).

Further, another article today (on Drudge) shows that the average American CEO pay today is 319x the average worker salary. In the 1970's is was 30x. Are our CEOs that much smarter? Are you dumber and worth less? The article concludes that it was the erosion of the top tier tax rates that led to this explosion in CEO pay.

Just the other day it was revealed the the head of Johnson & Johnson just closed on a $8.9M property around Palm Beach, FL. This the same week he laid off 8500 employees...not enough profit it seems, so had to trim the payroll.

So Fyou, all of you whining about this "tax increase." Learn your history before your ignorance further destroys all our lives.

All you whining about this "increase" are very likely not affected by it at unless you make a few $100k a year. I make a six figure salary and it won't affect me one bit (except by reducing the deficit).

reply to post by wutone


Thank you. I didn't even think to explain the mah to people. Maybe now they will understand the situation more. This is a huge increase! It will be seen immediately following Jan 1, 2011 in most people's payroll checks. Businesses will see the effects in September of 2012.

Originally posted by pajoly
So Fyou, all of you whining about this "tax increase." Learn your history before your ignorance further destroys all our lives.

All you whining about this "increase" are very likely not affected by it at unless you make a few $100k a year. I make a six figure salary and it won't affect me one bit (except by reducing the deficit).

Learn some math first.

The bottom bracket is increased from 10% to 15%, that is a 50% increase.

The poorest tax bracket gets a 50% increase when the Bush tax cuts expire.

Maybe it doesn't affect you and many of your rich liberal tax loving friends but it sure hurts the hell out of the poor.

Another example of the "party for the people" unmasking themselves.