Prophesy - Mastering Cause & Effect

I was just wondering if people thought the true prophets, including those with pyschic visions, have simply mastered the use of cause & effect.
I know for example, Freud in his time addressed some possible problems with civilization that were not apparent until recently. Namely, mental illness as a result of inhibitions of instict. Also, Buddhism talks a lot about mastering cause and effect.
Do you think good predictions, etc. are just a really good grasp of the situation and logically/reasonably/etc. it might lead?

What do you mean cause and effect? In biblical times they weren't predictions they were messages from God. Direct to the prophets to be told to the people.

I actually wrote a paper on this once called Future Time Analysis. I don't have access to it at the moment, but the jist of it is predicting the most probable future by realizing all of the interactions of events that have brought us to the present and in turn the future. Theoretically the idea is valid, but the amount of information (every cause and effect (time interaction) that has ever occurred ever is just too much for the human mind to process and the use of a machine is useless because we don't have the information which to program into its database to begin with.

The key is to be vague, then no matter what point in time, people will look and find parallels and then he/she is accurate. In my highschool senior studies class, near the end of the semester, the teacher showed us an interesting experiment. He said he now knows all of us so well he wrote a paper with our individual characteristics on it. We were to read it and decide if he was correct. For the most part everyone agreed he was right on. We then handed the paper to the person behind us to read their's-
they were all the same.

All a prophecy is according to Merriam Websters' is: a prediction of something to come. That means, we prophisize everyday when we plan our schedule for the following day, week, whatever. We don't have to master cause&effect to become prophets, we already are prophets.

we already are prophets.

Nice play on words, but I wouldn't count a prediction of nothing to be a prediction. I think you know what I'm saying.

Theoretically the idea is valid, but the amount of information (every cause and effect (time interaction) that has ever occurred ever is just too much for the human mind to process and the use of a machine is useless because we don't have the information which to program into its database to begin with.

So maybe either way, it is some sort of special ability, one more practical than the other. Also, our brains can be compared to a quantum computer... What about being able to interpret what is significant information for a particular event? Kind of like a hypothesis to the max.

We are told that cause creates effect.
We call it the law of cause and effect.
But it's quite the reverse; it's the effect returning from the future that establishes the cause

Which way is time running ? Forward in the free will version and backward in the divine plan;but,any way, one level up and there is no time.

So free will is not a part of the divine plan? What about people who claim to prophecize a disaster and avoid it. I agree with the no-time plane though. I read some of your posts and I enjoy them.

Free will is for Amatures

If I told you the secret to this human evolution is very simple, many would not beleive me. The mind likes complexity. It's how it controls you.
The worst Nazi in the world is your mind.

The Nazi of world war 2 were shadows externalized and made horrifically real.

Each of the Nazi' victims was killed in part by their own shadow. It's Hard to comprehend as we are entwined and bound by ideas of right and wrong, good and evil.

We need right and wrong to feel speciel.
As a victim you imagine that you have rights; compensation is due. You expect to stand elevated and speciel in the eyes of others, who will hopefully commiserate and assist you through the pain. The cult of the victim is a coomericial business. It's the out cropping of our need for easy money, attention and glamour.

The mind and your identity within it , the ego, is no different; it also wants control and attention.
It will never let you out of its prision. It cons you into thinking you into thinking it knows. Usually what it thinks it knows is misinformation, offered as ludicrous ideas - it's the mind's guessing game. When the mind moves from guessing to action, we call it free will. Free will was invented to create confusion. It's the way the Sphere ensures that escaping prisoners make little or no head way.

Free will is sold to us as speciel and vital and important.
Vast tomes are dedicated to it.
It's spoon fed to you as something you can't do without.
The idea of a free will is cleverly cloaked to hide its lethal characteristics, knowing it will appeal to your ego's need for specielness; playing to your need to be seperate and individual.
The idea is tap-tapped into your mind as a wood pecker taps a tree.

You are offered free will as a pillar in the human rights' edifice; something to be defended and to die for. It's placed sneakily into the American national identity, " land of the free (will)" Welcome to the invisible prison of the Shere. The prison you insist is not there.

Free will is for ametures. it got you the job you hate, the rotten relationship you endure/d; it got you to the stoplight just in time to hit the school bus, which you thought was an accident, but was the mind driving you, in time for a disaster.
it carried you lurching from one rotten choice to the next. Sometimes, rarely, it got it right, well almost right, but most of the time it bought you the pain of restriction and sufforcation, confusion and boredom. You suffered the exhaustion of the slavery it imposed on you , the you got angery and protest,so it said "Okay move to califorrnia, try that." Perhaps you did move. But with in a few months, after the novelty wore off, down came the asbestos fire blanket of your minds free will.

You found your self , yet again, in a sunny prison with other prisoners who are crawling along in traffic in the lane next to you.

Let go of free will. Its a con game, a very clever one. It's the best of reverse psychology.
tell people to fight for free will , tell them how important it is .

In this way you glue the idea to their arrogance and their need for identity.
Then once the idea hardens and is accepted, sit back and watch people give over to it.

Watch the pitiful sight of prisoners dying to defend the camp guards who stand over them in the watch towers.

the subtlety of the manipulation is unbelievable. Almost no one has seen it. Some have intuited its existance, but they are ridiculed to silence. And very few know how to to rotate out of the snare it uses to capture the mind, disallowing real inforamtion and personal truth. this reality is a zoo.


more later.

that is a very synical view of free will.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
I was just wondering if people thought the true prophets, including those with pyschic visions, have simply mastered the use of cause & effect.

Absolutely, so called pyschics in particular if you ask me. If you really watch a "pyschic" at work they ask so many probing questions the person practically gives them all the answers.

There is a guy with a TV show not sure of his name wherein he channels dead relatives. Listen closely to him, he covers his tracks so well and misdirects that it sounds like he's a wizard.

[edit on 15-6-2004 by echosounder]

I get what you are saying now, I've read some of Freud and he talks about how the ego enslaves the mind, but...

And very few know how to to rotate out of the snare it uses to capture the mind, disallowing real inforamtion and personal truth

So then you advocate instinct rather, would that be part of the divine plan you speak of?

Here are some other things I've learned. Some are frightful some are beutiful. many , at first, are hard to beleive . I'm not trying to convince you, or win you over.
I'm only telling you what I know.

We come from an incredible place; sadly our return is not guaranteed. There is a war on, you Know ? many deny it. it suits them

In the stigmata, an ancient Nag Hammadi scroll known as the gospel of St.Thomas is quoted "the kingdom of God is inside you and all around you, not in buildings of wood and stone, split apiece of wood and I am there. Lift up the stone you will find me. These are the hidden sayings that the living jesus spoke. Whoever discovers the meaning of these saying will not taste death."

You can't Get there with your mind.
Sorry, sorry, love me, love me
That is the riddle.
It's in your heart
and beyond that
It's past your death
but there is no life
And so no death
This is a dream
We are
not really
Here.


For those of you who yearn to return to your true spiritual home, I have some wonder ful news.
Your are home. Your are at the centre of everything. It's under your very nose.
All that stands between you and the incredible magnificence of it all is the mind.
You can enter via physical death or you come from a mental death.

A mental death feels like what I'd imagine a physical death would feel like. It requires you to voluntarily let go. Many physical deaths are not volutary. Once your body quits you are stuck, you can't Change any thing. Pre-death is preferred

She-She-La-La is a feminine god. She's very scary. I fell in love. She showed me how to die. I was frightened.
She asked me to surrender, Whispering, saying"there is no life and death"
I eventually agreed with her. She held my hand, I'm not worthy of her. She showed me the warrior's way to die - then bliss, the bliss of resurrection.
I could have gone much sooner.
She's patient.
She-She-La-La is my eternity. I am her.

We are not here. It's all a farce, an illusion.
While we labour under the misconception of our physicality, we are trapped. Once you see that you are immortal, you are free. It requires a rotation of the mind, a bit like turning a pillar inside out.
Like a necker's cube.


Sensations are binary electrical signals that travel to your brain to indicate what is happening in your environment, touch, for example.
Emotions are reactions in your etheric to the mind's options and ideas.. All emotion is housed in the etheric.

Emotions are not true information. They are just the out croppings of some opinion you hold. Only fealings are real. Fealings come from inner knowing. They are ESP.

Mind is the camp commandant, your personal fat controller. Sensations are the camp's telephone system. Emotions are the threater performance the prisoner is required to attend every day, like it or not.

Feelings are God's Gladiators calling faintly from the distance, reassuring you that the camp guards have no real bullets and that the gate is wide open. Of course, it's hard to hear the Gladiators calling, as the theater noice is deafening and when that is not in full swing, the camp commandant is barking new orders.

The camp loudspeaker-system (the media) floods you with misinformation that tells you how dangerous it is to make a run to freedom. It sells you onideas that feed the ego to trap yoou. It sells you constant fear. It cons you into thinking that what is happening to others in the world is some how a part of your imminent journey. It sells you on the nned to search for security, and it says the camp and its overall fat controllers will keep you safe, here's your welfare check.

It reats over and over again the fat controllers are very important. Her is the news, " The speaker of the House of Representives said..." Who give a F*CK what he said ? It isn't going to help you any way.

The point of the 'news' is to drip feed you fear and to offer you endless problems you can't fix. The idea is to generate a steady steam of helplessness, ensuring that you accept the idea that you are powerless - that the fat controllers know best. It ensures that you buy the idea that some one important is running the show, someone you must defer to and respect. Of caurse, politics is nothing more than an externalization of your mind and its desire to control you and those around you to make it feel safe. Give away the TV, ignore the papers and you are already walking to the gate.


There is a plan, a divine plan. It's you alternative incarnation after you had enough of free will, the mind and the zoo we are in.
The plan rests in your subtle feelings (not in your emotions) and it comes bit by bit, as you need it. It is splendid. It's more then you can imagine.

Now don't confuse a divine plan with religious ideas about conquering the Earth for Jesus or Islam or whoever wants to be the next fat controller.
Don't get confused with your ego's domination and its desires for your life.

The divine plan will not necessarily bring the ego the things it craves; attention, money, glamour and recognition. More likely, it will ask you to serve and be selfless, and it will require you to accept and follow along in blind faith. It will often test you to see if you are for real. It will demand instant action. Just as you are lying on your bed after 20 hours non-stop, it will say, "Get up and call brother George in Denver and make sure he's okay and following the plan "

You will probably ague at first and go to sleep instead, and the plan will say what a wimp, She's hopeless. It's a waste of time messing with her." Then it drifts away from your subtle feeling as it can't be bothered with you and you are lost for a while. Next, free will seizes the opportunity to come back in your life and suddenly you are driving 17 hours non-stop to steamboat springs for no reason at all other than to run away.

The divine plan is not like a Nazi-style control trip, as God, by its very nature, can't be a controller like your mind can; God has to allow thing to be free. Control is demonic. The law of allowing, as some call it, requires us to accept evil and good, error and judgment.
That is why there is pain and what we mislabel as 'evil' in our world.
If God is good, how can it allow evil we ask ? It has to. It is the ultimate liberator. It can't control.

When people talk about the will of god they are selling you some gobbleygook of the Sphere.
There is no will of God. Just the out cropping of what god is, love.
Unconditional love liberates and lets us go. It allows without personal criticism or judgement.
It allows even when what is happening is not personal choice of the mind.

Control and Administration.

Administration is hiring enough competent drivers to run the trains on time. The drivers can choose to drive the trains under your terms or not.
Control is different from administration. It's the imposition of your will on others. It is demonic. The fat controllers of your mind decides to impose itself, intimidating some, cajoling others, attempting to control everything; how people look, what they eat, where they go, how they prey, who they have sex with, what they ought to do. Meanwhile, it steals their money (energy) under the guise that should contribute to the greater good. Doing so, it feeds off the energy of others, enslaving them to its demands using guilt, regulation, manipulation, and /or threat.

To give away the need to control is the first step in the divin plan. First, you stop dominating and attempting to control your life, you then offer the same escape from torment to those close to you. If you have children, you can learn to administer their lives rather than terrorize and dominate them.

The divine plan states that there is no plan. We are trying to let go and arrive at a place where things arise spontaneously from our collective joy of being in the presence of God.

The Goddess

The Goddes energy has arrived in our world.
She will hurt the male-dominated world and will give the fat controllers a fright. She is both the destroyer and the eventual resurection.

The terrible lies of the world will be exposed. We are all pretending. We pretend we have the interests of others at heart. We pretend to be generous. We pretend to love using our minds, not our heart.
we pretend to care, it grants us self importance. We pretend to be truthful and yet we never listen to truth within and we lie like crazyall the time. We play Mr. nice Guy and yet we are often mean and nasty to people. All who are very dark within play the Mr. Nice Guy game. It's part of their propaganda. Whn you see a Mr or Ms .Nice Guy or Gal watch very very carefully. The 'Nice Guy' often hides a fat controller, a manipulator of the worst kind. I've chased a few black Magicians in my time - only when they got in my way. I never saw one who was hiding behind his or her 'Nice Guy' image. very few people are openly rotten.

The world is going to change. The tyrannical fat controller will be fatally wounded. the house of cards will collapse. The time is now. The game is up. The forces of retribution are just about to march into Babylon...

Modern physics has a problem for predicting based on cause and effect.

1. You would need to know the position/velocity/direction of every particle in the universe. (the vector)

2. HUP. States you can't know some of these things because the very act of observing them changes the values.

Originally posted by radardog
Modern physics has a problem for predicting based on cause and effect.

1. You would need to know the position/velocity/direction of every particle in the universe. (the vector)

2. HUP. States you can't know some of these things because the very act of observing them changes the values.

Those theories are plausible, though not necessarily correct. To project the outcome of a physical event in a certain area, you do not need to know the PVD of all particles in the universe, that is scientifically ludicrous. It's called predicting, and as always, predictions can be either wrong or right. You cannot dismiss prophecy, precognition, or related fields with that theory.



[edit on 19-6-2004 by iceofspades]

Predictions can be either correct or incorrect. I agree.

The trick is knowing if the prediction will be correct or incorrect before the event occurs. After-the-fact known predictions don't mean much. Take an easy case:

1. I predict I will grow one inch tonight.

2. You predict that I will not grow one inch tonight.


One of us will tell the future. What does it mean to us right now, though? Nothing, really. What we need to know is who is right before the event occurs. To do this, according to modern/contemporary physics (not that I'm suggesting this is the end-all way to approach things), we would need to know the PVD as I described before. Then, in turn, it would be more of a proof.

Sort of a super-complex kinematics problem solving.

To wrap my point up, for us to know (with respect to math and physics) that we will correctly predict the future (I guess I should have been more specific) we would need those things.

There are people who consider themselves Fururists... they predict possible outcome of future technology and sometimes politics by anylizing current trends and theories. They don't claim to be psychic, and they seem to be very good at what they do.

www.amazon.com...

some books by futurists

[edit on 20-6-2004 by UnusualMe]

Originally posted by UnusualMe
There are people who consider themselves Fururists... they predict possible outcome of future technology and sometimes politics by anylizing current trends and theories. They don't claim to be psychic, and they seem to be very good at what they do.

www.amazon.com...

some books by futurists

[edit on 20-6-2004 by UnusualMe]

Hmm, I can't seem to get that page to load, but I have heard of those people. It's a very interesting topic.

just goto amazon and type in futurist.. you should get the same page

I don't think prophecy masters cause and effect. I think people just vibrate at different frequencies and the prophets or psychics are those who can feel certain vibration levels of certain events and certain people ....