The Filesharing Conspiracy

reply to post by SentientBeyondDesign


Now just think if you could do that, get that feeling, and make enough cash doing it so you could always do it and not have to concern yourself with anything else BUT that? That's what being a paid artist is all about. It's not about being rich, but being able to create freely and share your work.

you dont understand people.
sure there are some nasty people that dosnt care and just torrent.
but if companyes really makes cool games,and people had nice salaryes they would buy 1 or 2 games couse they would be PLEASED.
but game companyes gives us complete crap,and hardware companyes still release complete crap,expensive,changing every two years.
what do you expect?

Everything should be free! Heee Heee Hoooo Hoooo! Oh yah! I disconnected my cable over 8 years ago because i found i could get most anything i wanted over the internet for FREEEEEEEEEE! heee hee! It all started with Counter-strike and dual monitors.....yup dual monitors! One to play c-strike and one to watch/ movies/tv-shows ect while i waited for respawn. At one point I owned 6 complete computer systems. One to host a server 3 for the family, and a syatem dedicated to Downloading! from morphius to kazza to limewhire/bearwear/supernova/mininova/isohunt/piratebay/and too many more to count. back before the internet we used to trade programs and games over bulletin board systems. When movies where cheap I used to rent 3 a day and not even watch a few of them. I used to watch tonnes of tv from cable. The problem is when i started paying 65 bucks for internet access and 65 bucks for cable and 3.50 per movie it became too much. Gas went up, rent went up, insurance went up, and my wage stayed the same or i got an insignificant raise. So I cut out the unnessasary expenses. Cable......gone renting movies.....gone watching a movie a week at a theatre.......gone! Why.......cause i couldn't afford it! Now I'm not complaining or anything, I just made changes in my life so i could afford things.

What it really comes down to is that if i can afford it I will buy it! If i spend all my money on the esentials, their is no money left over for entertainment. PERIOD!!!!

Who's fault is that? I don't know, Pay me for a days work properly and I'll be able to afford to buy your crap. Stop charging me income tax/property tax/health care tax/ccp tax/gst/pst/environmental charges tax/tire tax/tool tax/user fees/restocking fees/bogus charges and crappy fees/workers compensation tax/ ect. Hell even my drinks are now taxed for a bootle fee and a 2 cent environmental fee. Then the bank charges me a user fee every time i use my damn card if not at their bank. plus a bank charge every month.

So please forgive me for downloading like a whore. I know it's wrong but i don't care. come arrest me! The first thing I'll do in jail is trade my butt for an iphone with 4 g service and then i'll dnload the scymatics for the bank and break out. lmao like any of this stuff even matters......It's still legal to download in Canada! Yay us for now. When it is illegal, I'll go to work at a blockbuster or best buy or something and copy them at work.

Originally posted by MrParanoid
reply to post by SentientBeyondDesign

 

My hard work is no excuse to get paid? Then neither is yours or anyone elses. Let's all do the bare minimum and live in your world of make-believe where everything is free and just given away.

Do you practice what you preach? If you love your home so much, why don't you just let anyone bunk there and eat your food and sleep with your significant other. Do you have a pet? Or children? Can I take them, too? (I like them). It's not stealing if I want them and they are "yours" because there is no "yours". Are you cool with that? Do you do it?

It's amazing that you honestly think I (or anyone like me) should actually profit from my work. Amazingly, it's not a new concept. Even the ancient writers and musicians made a living doing what they loved. They made their money by being the best at what they did. Homer didn't just come up with the Odyssey for "funsies." Beethoven and Bach were paid for their work. WHY SHOULDN'T I AND EVERYONE ELSE LIKE ME?

Um ... Are you telling me that great works and discoveries only come to fruition because of monetary gain? Are you that dense? Do you have that little faith in humanity that you believe we only act when we're to be rewarded for our efforts? Are you that soulless?


The people of olden times don't count, at all. First and foremost, those people did the things they did because they were curious. As for "payment" received, I'm uncertain of the circumstances involving such ... but let me just say that they didn't live in the same era that we do.

And to bring them up is pointless. Why? Simple. Because they were trapped in the same system we're trapped in.



-----

Also, there is a difference between PHYSICAL property and DIGITAL property. It is NOT the same thing. I know you guys like to make it seem like it is, but it isn't.

If you said, however, "What if you write a diary or something, and someone comes about and steals it" that is a different matter. These are not things that are supposed to be relinquished to the public.





There is a difference between PRIVATE and PUBLIC. Your home is NOT public unless you make it so. And your product is PRIVATELY YOURS until YOU DECIDE TO GIVE IT TO THE WORLD.


So don't use retarded analogies.



People are more than capable of making epic discoveries on their own without needing to be bribed with compensation.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by SentientBeyondDesign]

reply to post by Stillalive


You vote with your money. That's what the free market is supposed to do. Reward those with good ideas and eliminate the rip-off artists. Sooner or later, the weak will fade away, leaving only the strong. (Well, that's the theory). If you simply take all - be it good or bad - and then are mad when you don't get what you want, perhaps you should learn patience, research what you what, then pay for the product you believe to be the best.

Originally posted by v3_exceed

Originally posted by Bspiracy
First ever double post.. I guess the internet gods were trying to hammer the point in

b

[edit on 27-6-2010 by Bspiracy]

My freely gained avatar is the result of my own creativity.

Applauded then - It looks like a Simpsons character to me and I apologize for the confusion

Your Avatar is a rip off of a scan. Stamping ATS on it hardly legitimizes your theft. The fact is you just don't want to admit your as bad as every other pirate, unless you have written authorization from the publishers (not the artist) of Bloom County which I would bet you don't you should not be exploiting their hard work for your own personal gain. Even if you convince yourself your promoting the artist.
..Ex

No convincing needed.. I know for a fact I am promoting Berkeley Breathed and is exactly why I have it in my location heading. It's SOMETHING to put back towards the artist unlike pirates who do it for the gain of only themselves.

You are trying to seize a point that lost it's validity after I paid for and re-promoted the artist. But of course you'll sit back and argue otherwise. My conscience though is clean.

The original point before we got off on our pissing tangent is how people STEAL something without PAYING for it.
You agree to that while I don't.
Simple enough.

As far as the artists above who make music and are ok with people pirating their music, I wish it was like that for other people. I've created several album covers, help artists get their CD's pressed through Discmakers or similar companies and they depend on the sales of those CD's. It's a push pull market but if you are ok for people to pirate your music, let people know that.. tell them at the shows, tell them on your website. But it is NOT the same for artists who don't have the opportune or clout to get into venues of choice to make 800 a night.

b

reply to post by theclutch


Couldn't of said it better myself Star!

reply to post by MrParanoid


Is that why we're all paying for the mistakes of the ones that survived? :]

Is that why tons of businesses rip us off all the time? Is that why our media is a joke? Is that why BP ruined the gulf coast? Is that why commercials on TV tell you that you're going to get something, but then you open the box and find out they either hyped it up ... or used language that LEGALLY allows them to say certain things via loopholes? Is that why businesses like to tell us half-truths, so as to make themselves look nicer?



Is THAT why in a system where PRODUCTS are supported by PUBLIC OPINION, BUSINESSES are allowed to manipulate the way they are PERCEIVED with clever little campaigns?

You know ... basically, manipulating their own worth. Is that how it works? Is that why we don't take action, because we know if we stand up, they can cut us off from that juicy teet we're all suckling on?

"No, no, strongman. Not that welfare teet. I'm talking about that dependency to corporations and their 'cute little products' teet."




Nicely played, capitalism.


**** everything else, I just needs ta get paid.

"You do you, I do me."


Right? Right?! LOL.

reply to post by SentientBeyondDesign


You don't understand. A COPYRIGHT means the work remains private and legally the artist's possession. I grant you the right to my work ONLY when you buy it. And I retain the right to my work even after you buy it so you can't sell it and profit from what I did. Buying something doesn't give YOU the right to GIVE IT AWAY. A copyright is there to protect my rights as the creator. It's that freakin' simple.

The argument I made about the ancients is completely valid. You can ramble on about "the system" all you want, but the fact is "the system" hasn't always been the same system it is today, yet those past artists made a living through their creations. They would have detested the theft of their works the same as I do.

Digital or not, my creation is MINE. I can choose to sell it, or keep it, or share it. But that's MY decision to make - not some other yahoo's.

reply to post by MrParanoid


Don't release it to the public anymore then. You're just being silly. You obviously don't care enough to do it without being patted on the back with dollars for it. So, yeah.



-----
And this ATS staff member bull is starting to piss me off with all the idiotic editing and censoring.
-----

reply to post by SentientBeyondDesign


"Being silly?" You just want to live in your own world where you make the rules and you can do whatever it is you please. That's silly.

As is your argument. Just because I want to make a buck doesn't mean you can compare me to a corporation like BP. Nor does it mean I even want to work with a conglomerate such as Time Warner.

I work with an independant publisher who's likeminded as myself. In fact, I bet you and many other ATSers have read this publisher's books. And I can tell you as fact that he wouldn't want you stealing his books either.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Wow deep thoughts, and well said.

Big Media is as slow as a dying dinosaur. Only a handful are prompt in response. For instance South Park was smart enough to put the full versions of their shows on their site, in full quality, with censors removed. All you have to endure is 3 commercials the entire show.

When anyone can go download the entire South Park megatorrent it'd be absurd to not do this, but Big Media doesn't get it. Every show and film for that matter could be right on the official website, the same night it airs on TV whatever, with commercials. It's safe to say most people are used to them.


The Nelson ratings system is another DOA flawed joke of a system. Roughly 10,000 people who have the boxes hooked to their entertainment equipment are essentially the dictators of what shows stay, or get canceled. These "ratings" by this quazi-elite also help determine how much advertisers pay for each new episode. The system could be balanced out, online, by these same advertisers, based on price per view, not Prime Time popularity.


On the flip side, as one who dabbles in video editing, I see the side of the content 'maker'. That is, there's too much restriction on NO BUDGET NON-PROFIT sorts such as myself. If you're not making money by borrowing something that you're trying to educate with, and provide deeper perspective with, they need to let up.

Having Youtube pull a video or removes its entire soundtrack because it contains 22 seconds of a song is rash. And they overlook the part where in many if not most cases we're actually paying homage, and helping to advertise their content. But a strict greediness comes into play as if we're offering an entire CD catalog for free direct download or something.

If someone isn't making money with it how much should they care? The one that always got me was the music videos. Oh, we can watch them on MTV, but Youtube etc (I don't actually like Youtube or Google BTW) can't have the PROMOTIONAL music video on there, even if they have advertising that outfits such as VIACOM can share? I always thought music videos were pure advertising anyways: to get you to buy albums, posters, shirts, and CONCERT TICKETS where you'll go and buy more of the same items just because you were at the concert.

Wake up, Big Media. You8're finished if you don't. If you do, great works will go on, everyone will make money, and people will still be empowered to make the best presentations they can in their individual efforts to make the world a better place.

Originally posted by DGFenrir
reply to post by Faiol

 

And how large percent of pirates are the ones who are trying to educate themself by dowloading an educational ebook or a lecture?? Even for them there are free alternatives.
I'm pretty sure that over 99% of illegal downloads are mp3, movies and video games that are used for entertainment purposes.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

But that's only because there is an unwritten law amongst video gamers. A universal understanding that most follow. And that is: that if a game is good, you buy it after you pirate!

Its nice when a culture or motto of Integrity develops without it having to be enforced by law. Humans being good for the sake of good.

We, gamers, pay for good games because we want to support the developer.

[edit on 27/6/2010 by DGFenrir]

everyone should have free access to information, regardless

if you have the money to buy all these things that are available in the way of piracy, you should buy it

thats all my point, everybody should have the free access to information, if they can buy it, nice, otherwise, they must have access too

information is everything, you need to understand that everything you are seeing right now is information too, but that they dont charge right? we are information, we are not matter ... but thats another topic, but right now you should be able to get my point

this is why most people in this world are dumb: they dont know how to get information, dont have it available or dont have money to access it

if 99% of piracy is entertainment, then it just proves the point that the freaking balance of money in this world is wrong!

nowadays anyone can download a movie, music and books and pay for it using systems like iTunes and THEY ARE SUCCESSFUL AND ARE GROWING EVERYDAY

piracy will never end, but there are a lot of money to be made in these virtual stores to buy digital media, since people who have money support the artists ...


[edit on 27/6/10 by Faiol]

'self betterment' Are you kidding me OP?

I'm not even going to attempt to address what you call an 'issue' whole.


The best way to sum this up is that the times are changing.

And something that I will point out is that you commonly put emphasis on musicians.
You tell us that if we cannot afford to pay for expensive CDs that we should simply make music ourselves?

Think. T h i n k. T h i n k.



Before going on about this 'self betterment' mumbo jumbo, you need to realize that many people don't have musical talent, but do enjoy music. And that most music artists make their money by going on tour, or from dedicated fans who buy their products because they support them.


The times are changing.

Becoming a musician is not always a one way ticket to fame and fortune anymore.

No matter how you try and spin it, the internet is an extremely positive development. You try to suggest that music is to be enjoyed, but then tell us to 'make our own' and not listen to our favorite artists if we cannot/do not buy their CDs?


You seem to be mocking the situation by saying things like 'oooh everything should be free all mineeee' suggesting that we, the consumers are greeedy folk. That we do not appreciate those whose tickets we buy to see at a concert. Or those who's CDs we buy to have their full quality songs with a case. Even though we still listen to the lower quality versions of their songs that we downloaded and put on our Ipod for accessibility.


Tell me then. How are musicians, video game companies, and movie companies still making a living and profit today?

If anything, the internet and file sharing gives these artists a portal to a larger audience.

People do not want to get scammed. People do not want to buy first, then see if they like it. So people will go out of their way and sample a movie, a song, or a game 'illegally' and then decide whether or not they will support that artist.


Good artists get taken care of by their fans. If what you're providing is quality material. You have no worries.

But if what you are providing is a ripoff of mainstream crap, then maybe you should feel 'violated' and guilty for trying to take the 'audience' as fools.

reply to post by Skyfloating


This is a great post. I myself have never downloaded anything illegally (call me old school, or just old, I guess). But I am hoping that sooner or later, an equilibrium gets re-established, with a system that works for both artists and music fan.

Back in the late 80's, early 90's, when I was in college, we had an amazing music scene. I could go hear a different band every weekend in the small college town I was living in, and I never had to pay over $7 bucks for a cover.

Then, TicketMaster got a hold of everything (and I mean everything!) and music concerts (even weekend gigs at local venues) started getting ridiculously over-priced. So, I went from a HUGE music afficionado, who was always buying CDs, to a person who stopped spending my money on music.

I blame it on the fact that music concerts got so expensive. Whenever I heard a band in person, if I liked them, I would buy their newest CD. (Or, tape, back in the 80's.) And then, I found other bands by listening to music similar to theirs. It was wonderful. Then, music got too expensive, and not only live music, but the cost of CDs went through the roof.

Now, I had the money to pay for it, but there comes point when it gets ridiculous to pay too much for an album, when you only want 2-3 songs on it, and a lot of money for a music concert. I mean, let's get real.

But, I refuse to steal, so I never downloaded illegal downloads. I just basiclaly, stopped making music my number one hobby.

So, I think, although everything you said in your post is right, I think another thing that is driving the decline in music artistry is also the greed that got out of hand. (Not by the musicians, but by the third parties that made money off the talent. The ticketmaster people, the record company, etc..) I think they basically contributed to their own demise.

I hope that live music becomes affordable again, and that bands start playing local gigs (at an affordable ticket price) again like they used to.

Same thing with books, too. I used to buy books ALL the time. And I mean ALL the time. But then suddenly, the price of books started getting ridiculously priced. Over $20 for a book?? I'm sorry, but although I love to read, when it gets above a certain price, I refuse to pay that much. I didn't go to downloading, though. What I did, was start going to second hand book stores, and libraries. And then, sad to say, I started reading more on the internet, and I pretty much stopped buying books.

So, in the last decade or so, it was the cost of live music, the cost of CDs, the cost of books that drove me to stop buying. And I could afford it.

Once in a while, if I want to buy a song, I go to itunes nowadays. Once in a while, I buy a book. But much, much less than before, and usually only when it is heavily discounted or at a second hand bookstore.

But, sadly, I know that itunes and second-hand bookstores are not enough to support musical artists and authors. So, I do hope that a better system comes along, that is fair to all.

Originally posted by dean007
times are changing maybe artists make to much money
i know my shelf i just cant seem to find a decent paying job most of the time...

if they really didnt want you doing it they would of never invented and sold cd and dvd burners mp3 players because there is almost nothing you can legally do with them

So because you don't make a lot of money it is okay to steal from others? Because you don't make as much as you would like other's shouldn't make money? I think you over estimate how much money these artists are making.

The second point is bull as well. I use every one of those devices legally. I have an MP3 player full of music I bought and ripped to my own computer. I used CDRs to take music I work on out to my car and test it out. I use DVD-Rs to back up session files and put them in a fire proof box. I used my DVD burner to make multiple copies of a custom slideshow and video for members of my family.

There are hundreds of ways to use those devices legally. Saying otherwise is a way to excuse your own illegal behavior.

I agree with a portion of what your saying, do I believe people should pay for all of the following? Yes. Do I believe everything is overpriced and not worth paying for? Yes.

You ask questions in your thread, but here's a real questions for you.

"Half of my paycheck monthly goes to Medical Bills and Medication, the rest towards Rent and other various bills. I love the twilight series and would love to go see the midnight showing, but wait... 10 dollars? With 10 dollars I can go to the dollar general, buy a loaf of bread, a gallon of milk, 3 bags of potato chips, a toy for my nephew (Who I am babysitting for a whopping 10 dollars 3 nights a week to pay my internet connection), and still have money left over to buy a pack of cigg's. I think Ill watch it tomorrow streaming."

Sorry man, musicians, writers, artists are not the only ones with financial problems. I wouldn't ever tell you to ever stop doing what you love, but if the artistic world is not treating you right I am sure you can get a local restaurant or maintenance job and still sell your work on the side. Maybe if we lived in world that didn't put a 10% sales tax on almost every luxury I wouldn't download.

Hmm.. I wonder if Disney and Pixar would literally go bankrupt for settling for 5 bucks a ticket for Toy Story 3 @ 7,000,000 dollars gross this weekend. I wonder if some of these other companies would be able to live of hitting half of the 30,000,000 dollars they would make off a movie. Where the CEO of Universal Pictures is probably sitting with 5 million in his bank account. The problem with the new media market is that the larger media companies overcharge to make ridiculous profits, and most Middle Class American's about 10 years ago, were able to afford it but during this recent economic crisis definitely not.

I am not saying that this is completely right, but If i had a choice to pay my mortgage for a month or pay for every CD in my computer's library, order movies daily on in demand, go to the local movie theater where I am overcharged for a sub par movie, buy a CD where I may only like one song. Pay my mortgage with little or no entertainment, or get the best of both worlds. I know which option I would choose.

You provide your thread that downloading is bad from one side of view.

Yes I do understand that this market is bad for independent artists. Do I buy their CD's at the local nightclubs in support? Yes. I just went to a local craft market where I bought a picnic table, well can't download that. The point is YES independent artists need support, do we need to censor the internet with some government agency which we will be paying to fund so their work doesn't get stolen. But, in return lose the freedom of watching a movie online instead of paying 10 bucks to go see and putting millions into a few peoples pockets which they will probably donate to some odd country with an HIV problem instead of giving back to the people who payed their salaries?

K... I think I got your point?

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by mblahnikluver

 

if they keep pushing that crappy device that they wouldnt have a job soon
cause everyone will be downloading books and their services will not be needed.

Exactly. And isn't that a good thing?

We have the technology right now to make the function of standing around a bookstore waiting for people to walk in and buy books, completely irrelevant.

Why is it better to not use that technology, and keep people working mindless, useless jobs?

I have a real simple question. What will they do instead. If book store employees, taxi drivers, programmers, and musicians aren't making money how will they support their family's or earn a living?

Who is going to buy the recording equipment, computers, or other things needed to create product for people to use?

There's a lot of posts here (and rightfully so; this is a topic that needs to be discussed and the OP did a great job) and I don't feel like wading through them all to see if this has been mentioned: there's a lot of older or more obscure works that aren't available through any legit source.

For whatever reason these works are out of print or were never commercially available to start with and the only way to obtain them is filesharing. I'm not saying it's a great thing to do as the mind behind the work gets no compensation out of the deal, but the fact is some people want to hear, read or watch these works and just can't do so without breaking the law.

Another issue is cost. A lot of the more professional grade software out there is out of the price range of the average consumer. But without said software there's no way to make a demo, or work up a portfolio to present to someone who would be willing to invest in your creative efforts and make a marketable product, and without something to show you've got talent you're going to be ignored. It's a bit of a modern Catch 22.

I'm not saying that the above scenario justifies stealing. It doesn't. It's just an explanation for increase in software piracy.

Personally, I don't fileshare (I live in the middle of nowhere and lack the bandwidth, and I earn enough and have enough self-respect to buy what I need and want) but I don't judge those who do either. (Not to imply that the OP was judgmental, just stating my stance on the moral side of the issue).

Sorry if any of this has already been brought up.


TheAssoc.

they have copyrights on grains of some food...does not make it right you can go to jail cause you are hungry and plant there dang seed's.

ok a shoplifter steals a cd at walmart it's a pety crime.
out the next day .

you down load the cd your a felon....
and none of you see this as a force of power?

same crime same time.