Is Oil REALLY a "fossile" Fuel?

I was just reading a highly informational thread about the layers of the earth www.abovetopsecret.com...
And It got me thinking..

BP's Gulf Well "Deep Horizon" drilled for oil at 13,000 feet. The deepest well in the World is 35,000 feet.. That's 6.6 MILES deep..

If oil is what they claim it is, the remains of forest, jungles, animal bodies etc that decomposed at high pressures and heat .............................. how does it explain oil at such amazing depths?

Lets use logic:

Let's assume there is a jungle, lots of big ol' dinosaurs. Suddenly they all die at one time, uh, lets say a volcano erupts and burries it all. Let's assume it decomposes at high pressure and carbon is left behind (oil) ... it would then have to seep through bedrock to those amazing depths of 35,000 feet (or even the 13,000 foot well)

The wells drill to the top point of the well, and use pressure to force the oil up through pipes. This means the wells themselves are much, much deeper and wider.

The oil forms an actual cavern in the land. When oil is drilled on shore (say, Texas) oil companies pump water into the well as oil is pumped out. So that vast hollow caverns are not created to destablize the crust.

Anyways.

If something at the Earths surface dies, decays, becomes oil and filters down 13k feet plus, it would require a MASSIVE amount of organic organism to create such a vast well so far down..

It's complicated in the Gulf further .. the Gulf is an ocean, and the last time there was land there was millions of years ago .. and that land was blasted all over the planet when a meteor struck the Yucatan and created the Gulf..

Whats more.. shallow wells such as those in the Southern US show no signs fossils.. only in tarpits are fossils found because animals walked in and died .. but not in wells? Further more, in areas of Texas where oil is found, looking at rock layers there is no evidence to suggest vast lush jungle or animals in mass abundance ever roamed there..... yet vast oil reserves are to be found?

We know that oil is a Hydro-Carbon. The theory behind this? It's assumed, or theorized, or perhaps only Hypothesized, that only through the decay of organisms can Carbon and Hydrogen be found in massive abundance... keeping in mind that HYDROGEN is the most common element in the UNIVERSE. Carbon is the 6th most common element. Scientist have found planets and moons and stars with vast amount of both elements. in fact there is so much Carbon on Neptune it's speculated there is enough pressure that diamonds are formed in the atmosphere..

So is it unlikely that oil is actually a common, natural chemical creation related to the abundance of both elements natural in the universe?

Personally this idea of OIL being "Organic" makes absolutely no sense to me.. And if oil is as easy as combining Carbon and Hydrogen under heat/pressure........ why can't it be made in a lab? We can make diamonds in the lab, by compressing pure carbon at extreme temps .. perhaps it's not economical, it's "easier" to gather it from the crust..

how does it explain oil at such amazing depths?

I thought it had something to do with plate tectonics

pubs.usgs.gov...

spreading and recycling of the crust



[edit on 26-6-2010 by Zeta Reticulan]

S&F for original thoughts, my favorite thing. I am hoping this will elicit a good discussion, as it is very interesting and merits such. (Bump)

No Oil has nothing to do with Fossils.

I have no idea why they continue to say Fossil Fuel.

Leave it to the media to tell continual lies.

We all grew up believing that oil is a fossil fuel, and just about every day this ‘fact’ is mentioned in newspapers and on TV. However, let us not forget what Lenin said – “A lie told often enough becomes truth.” It was in 1757 that the great Russian scholar Mikhailo V. Lomonosov enunciated the hypothesis that oil might originate from biological detritus. The scientists who first rejected Lomonsov’s hypothesis, at the beginning of the nineteenth century, were the famous German naturalist and geologist Alexander von Humboldt and the French chemist and thermodynamicist Louis Joseph Gay-Lussac, who together enunciated the proposition that oil is a primordial material erupted from great depth, and is unconnected with any biological matter near the surface of the Earth.

Source

reply to post by theability

Well then, if oil is a "primordial material erupted from great depth", then perhaps we shouldn't be mining it at all.

It could interfere with the internal aspects of our planet. (Not that we seem to care what we interfere with).

I wish you would come back and comment more about this, theability.

CO2 + H2O = CH2 + O3

The formula is that simple. Oil and Gas are just HydroCarbon or CarboHydrate which ever way that you want to slant it. Take a bottle of ordinary water. It will be containing a certain amount of Carbon Dioxide dissolved in that water. Leave it to stand for a year or two. Then open it up for chemical analysis. You will discover that the water and the carbon dioxide have reacted to form various hydro carbons including BENZENE C6H6 which is highly poisonous. Thus bottled water cannot be stored for any length of time. It quickly becomes poisonous.

CH2 + O3 = CO2 + H2O

All the Coal and Oil and Gas in the Earth is there because Carbon Dioxide in the air and sea and land is reacting with the water contained there in. Thus turning the water into Hydro Carbon minerals or Carbo Hydrate life forms.

ACID + METAL = SALT

If we think of H2O water as an ACID and we think of CO2 carbon dioxide as an oxidized metal then the result of that reaction is a SALT called CH2. The Oxygen O3 is simply being pushed out of the way as a meaningless extra of no importance to the reaction. Until the CH2 wants it back again.

Chemical bonds formed deep in the Earth under considerable pressures will not be stable if brought up to the lower pressures at sea level and above. Coal is stable, but if ignited it will quickly react with the oxygen in the air to form Carbon Dioxide and Water.

Unfortunately the amount of oxygen in the air is not sufficient for the coal to convert to Carbon Dioxide completely and thus "soot" being pure carbon collects up inside the chimney. Phosphates and Sulphides contained in the coal on the other hand drop down into the grate below the fire. Coal burns very cleanly and is certainly not the source of pollution that some would have you believe it to be.

Coal is a super abundant resource. No matter where you dig you will always find it. Also the deeper that you dig then the more that you will find it. If the coal mine is considered to be nolonger safe and gets closed down. The shafts will flood with water. That water will very quickly becomes fresh soft coal which interestingly burns extremely well.

Domestic users of Coal prefer to burn large nuggets of the coal. Smaller nuggets do not burn so well. Unfortunately industrial mining machines cause the nuggets to be too small. Thus coal that is mined carefully by hand, being large nuggets, is far superior. Soft coal burns better than hard coal. To keep the coal soft one should store the coal in water.

The chimney needs to be kept clear using chimney sweeping brush on sticks "rods" that carry the brush up inside the chimney causing the "soot" to come down. Collect it and store it for use as Indian Ink.

The phosphates and sulphates that are in the grate should be collected and used in the manufacture of "Pot Ash Water" used to make soaps and detergents. Basically put the ash into a large vessel of cold water. Leave it to soak for a week. Then tip out the now "Pot Ash Water". Then dispose of the sludge using it as a fertilizer. The "Pot Ash Water" should be clear.

SALT + ALKALINE = PRECIPITATION.

Hot up the "Pot Ash Water" in a very large cooking vessel. Then carefully add whatever oil [alkaline] you choose. The reaction will produce a precipitation. Soap. Dish washing liquid. Or detergent. I advise that you experiment using various types of oil because each oil reacts differently. Sometimes producing solid flakes that you then shape into balls or blocks. Or using a different oil the precipitation might be liquid like as used to wash dishes. Liquid soap is quite popular for hand and face washing and can be stored in glass jars. I use the liquid soap as a shampoo. Add perfumes to the soap blocks before they set to make them more appealing to the vanity of your customers. Once the soap blocks are set firm you can then wrap them in decorative paper for marketing. Making home made "Cottage Soap" is potentally a big money maker for you.

> SHIMONO <


[edit on 26/6/2010 by CAELENIUM]

Oil has been marketed by a few rich guys as a "dwindling, non-renewable energy source" ever since the oil embargo of the 1970s. Each generation has been made to feel guilty for their "addiction to oil" and encouraged to "conserve energy."

As the decades pass, the marketing gimmick is getting harder and harder to sell to the public.

The oil leak in the Gulf serves as a sign that we have all been scammed for most of our lives by people like those on the board of BP and our elected officials. They have sold to us worthless oil at outrageous prices to enrich themselves beyond anything ever seen in human history.

As they tell you to use less and less energy, stop and think. What happens to any system as energy is slowly withdrawn? It slowly dies.

this is the best thread ever , I once had a long conversation with some coast guard guys who had the task of occasionally monitoring oil tankers

we were talking about how frequent tanker leaks were and I said " Oil is worthless or they wouldn't routinely 'lose' so much of it . I think tanker leaks are a form of bio terrorism"

and they said ,"yup, we do to"

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I was just reading a highly informational thread about the layers of the earth www.abovetopsecret.com...
And It got me thinking..

BP's Gulf Well "Deep Horizon" drilled for oil at 13,000 feet. The deepest well in the World is 35,000 feet.. That's 6.6 MILES deep..

If oil is what they claim it is, the remains of forest, jungles, animal bodies etc that decomposed at high pressures and heat .............................. how does it explain oil at such amazing depths?

Lets use logic:

Let's assume there is a jungle, lots of big ol' dinosaurs. Suddenly they all die at one time, uh, lets say a volcano erupts and burries it all. Let's assume it decomposes at high pressure and carbon is left behind (oil) ... it would then have to seep through bedrock to those amazing depths of 35,000 feet (or even the 13,000 foot well)

The wells drill to the top point of the well, and use pressure to force the oil up through pipes. This means the wells themselves are much, much deeper and wider.

The oil forms an actual cavern in the land. When oil is drilled on shore (say, Texas) oil companies pump water into the well as oil is pumped out. So that vast hollow caverns are not created to destablize the crust.

Anyways.

If something at the Earths surface dies, decays, becomes oil and filters down 13k feet plus, it would require a MASSIVE amount of organic organism to create such a vast well so far down..

It's complicated in the Gulf further .. the Gulf is an ocean, and the last time there was land there was millions of years ago .. and that land was blasted all over the planet when a meteor struck the Yucatan and created the Gulf..

Whats more.. shallow wells such as those in the Southern US show no signs fossils.. only in tarpits are fossils found because animals walked in and died .. but not in wells? Further more, in areas of Texas where oil is found, looking at rock layers there is no evidence to suggest vast lush jungle or animals in mass abundance ever roamed there..... yet vast oil reserves are to be found?

We know that oil is a Hydro-Carbon. The theory behind this? It's assumed, or theorized, or perhaps only Hypothesized, that only through the decay of organisms can Carbon and Hydrogen be found in massive abundance... keeping in mind that HYDROGEN is the most common element in the UNIVERSE. Carbon is the 6th most common element. Scientist have found planets and moons and stars with vast amount of both elements. in fact there is so much Carbon on Neptune it's speculated there is enough pressure that diamonds are formed in the atmosphere..

So is it unlikely that oil is actually a common, natural chemical creation related to the abundance of both elements natural in the universe?

Personally this idea of OIL being "Organic" makes absolutely no sense to me.. And if oil is as easy as combining Carbon and Hydrogen under heat/pressure........ why can't it be made in a lab? We can make diamonds in the lab, by compressing pure carbon at extreme temps .. perhaps it's not economical, it's "easier" to gather it from the crust..

IMO what caused there to be a large oil volume on earth is that we have been bombarded by comets rather than asteroids.
It is stated the largest reserve of oil is off of Yucatan which is also the impact site of the last extinction event widely assumed to have been an asteroid impact. I submit that it was not an asteroid but a comet. They are shown to be composed largely of water and hydrocarbons. I submit the vast deposits of hydrocarbon in the gulf are the result of this cometary collision and that all deep oil came in this fashion during the formation of the planet.
It also explains the fractile crust of the area as it was a mere 65million yrs ago the whole gulf was vaporized and the crust shattered by impact. This alone should tell you how oil comes to earth. If an asteroid had punched the area would it be the largest hydrocarbon reserve found? what about a cubic mile or so of ice and oil smacking the Earth there?. We went looking in the worst possible place for oil as the whole gulf is a fractured mess and the cap rock over the deposit (indeed penetrating deep int the oil bearing area) is brittle crystalline granitic rock that has been seeping the oil for centuries.
Tapping the deposit has fractured the crust beyond human repair, nuking this fractile region will only make for more seepage and floor cracks spewing oil and gas.
We have over reached our abilities on this and are going to pay dearly for it.
N.

reply to post by N.of norml


That is a very lucid and informative take on the available facts .It really puts a lot of things in perspective

a star for that

The idea that oil is abiotic has gained traction over the last decade or so. Eh, look how long it took to convince science, more accurately stated the "church's branch of science" that the sun did not revolve around the earth.

Personally, I was an "early adopter" only because the decomposition of dead animals and plants just never logically added up.

reply to post by CAELENIUM


The 2 elements so fascinating to me are the simplicity of your explanation. and its fit with facts.

Consider how close the formula CO2 + H2O = CH2 + O3 is to what we learned in organic chemistry, without it ever appearing in any text or lecture I recall. A pressure symbol is needed to make it more complete, my opinion.

Some considerations: Early Earth atmosphere was full of CO2, NH4. Comets brought water. Tectonics were extremely active. Under some pressure CO2 and H2O makes fizzy water. Under tectonic pressure, molecular bonds are broken and reformed. So, the early Earth chemistry reduced the CO2 in the atmosphere, increased the O2, made and buried oil, and probably made coal. All the O2 did not come from primordial trees. CO2 is a necessary part of the cycle to make O2 for all us fauna.

I did a search using "experiment H2O carbon dioxide pressure" and didn't see much that was meaningful. But, did find this "In particular, the solubility of water in carbon dioxide, which is very low at ambient conditions (􀂧 10-2 molar fraction), increases strongly with temperature to reach a complete miscibility at temperature around or slightly below the critical temperature of water." at IAPWS.jp

This paper only gets to the aggregation of water and CO2 in relatively low pressure/temperature as compared to tectonics. But one can already see the proto-behavior in the bond transformations that makes the above formula feasible. This was a paper presented in Kyoto, Japan, not in the USA.

If I were to look at the pattern of facts, I'd conclude oil is not biological, the CO2-as-a-pollutant is a radical scam, there are oceans of oil, changes in atmospheric levels of CO2 greater than we have seen fall within normal global system dynamics, there are existing biological and natural mechanisms for down-converting oil components back to CO2 & H2O.

Any of this wrong? I'm thinking the Supreme Court acted stupidly in having anything at all to say about CO2. How to get the facts out.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting

Well then, if oil is a "primordial material erupted from great depth", then perhaps we shouldn't be mining it at all.

It could interfere with the internal aspects of our planet. (Not that we seem to care what we interfere with).

I wish you would come back and comment more about this, theability.

Well please understand I am not an oil expert by any means, but from what I understand about the oil and where it comes from, yes it is a great risk as we have seen from this spill.

Others that have posted articles and publications also have stated that oil isn't going to run out, it renews. But I have no source which to quote from.

As the quote states, oil has been regarded for long periods of time in the wrong mannerism.

Something that human beings do all in the name of profit.

Just like Funeral Homes after we die. Money making is really a sick and disgusting, bad dream.

This is an excellent thread, the replies as much as the OP.

I was thinking similar things recently, and i remembered that the GOM was supposedly a meteor impact site.

Surely that would have devastated any plant / animal matter in that entire area? Making it unlikely at least for it to have eleft enough behind to create said oil?

Just a brainfart from my side, but the whole non-renewable resource idea does stink. If it is in fact found in pockets all over the globe, at the depths it is found, is it possible that is is just a ... tectonic mechanism, like oil in your cars engine?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Personally this idea of OIL being "Organic" makes absolutely no sense to me

lots of people use vegetable oil
or biodiesel for their cars

Vegetable_oil_fuel

Vegetable oil fuel kit

Whale oil was used for lamps long ago









[edit on 26-6-2010 by Zeta Reticulan]

reply to post by CAELENIUM


That is some interesting information. It would make sense that water would play a key part in the formation considering it's abundance. Perhaps that's also why they intentionally flood oil wells and coal mines?

reply to post by N.of norml


Comets though are more rare than asteroids, and actually are not that big. If any of significant size struck us we would be blown to bits. Also the oil reserves are massive and widespread and very deep.. there is only evidence that we have been hit by a few colossal asteroid/comets of significant size.

Next would be that if hydro-carbons naturally form on a comet, or rather the material a comet is created from, then it's common sense to say hydro-carbons are natural. If they are in abundance on a tiny space rock, it's clear they'd be even more abundant on a planet?

Personally I think the idea that it's some kind of natural primordial ooze is the most logical answer.. makes the most sense. It would explain it's abundance and depths at varying levels of the Earths crust.

OIL is worthless gunk , I think like most things business says to itself well charging more for less just makes sense charge more makes heaps of profits drill less refine less

lets pretend there's no way we can drill or refine or handle this stuff safely
that's how they plan to implement their more for less strategy