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Secret Classification levels?

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posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by RedDogJT
 

There is no someONE responsible for classifying everything, except perhaps indirectly the President. Classification may be performed derivatively (I incorporate classified information, my product is now classified), by a security classification guide (technically another type of derivative classification), or by an original classification authority (there are few of these, but more than one). Most classified information is certainly generated outside the CIA. In the grand scheme of things, it's just one agency with a mission of limited scope.




posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 10:04 PM
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I don't know if this is relevant but my status was TS level 3 with limited 2nd level, where I was. Polygraph testing 2x was necessary. Biometrics and card scan, as well as varied questions were involved in an area or two upon entry, also..

R&d, but like one poster above mentioned, I don't believe it works the same for all fields. Level 2+ is insanely classified as it is, with level 1 being only for the project leads and/or president (of course). I imagine there are kinds where even things are hidden from him for some time, however. Based upon history, I'm sure of it.

Where an individual worked, what he/she worked on, as well as when (at times when testing if you are involved for that stage), are all considered "classified." This includes from your family even, other than brief and broad explanations to close one's during involvement time with the project. You're asked to sign all kinds of Non-disclosure agreements, and the punishments for breaching such documents range, but most I've seen that were at least TS all involved life in prison, to the ever more frightening act and punishment for treason itself.

They don't play around with these things, and there's no room for unintentional "mistakes" most times. Once you're in, it's exciting, but Secrecy and Honesty is absolutely required, as well as enforced.
edit on 17-7-2012 by SoulVisions because: fixed a paragraph typo



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 12:40 AM
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Originally posted by SoulVisions
I don't know if this is relevant but my status was TS level 3 with limited 2nd level, where I was. Polygraph testing 2x was necessary. Biometrics and card scan, as well as varied questions were involved in an area or two upon entry, also..

R&d, but like one poster above mentioned, I don't believe it works the same for all fields. Level 2+ is insanely classified as it is, with level 1 being only for the project leads and/or president (of course). I imagine there are kinds where even things are hidden from him for some time, however. Based upon history, I'm sure of it.

Where an individual worked, what he/she worked on, as well as when (at times when testing if you are involved for that stage), are all considered "classified." This includes from your family even, other than brief and broad explanations to close one's during involvement time with the project. You're asked to sign all kinds of Non-disclosure agreements, and the punishments for breaching such documents range, but most I've seen that were at least TS all involved life in prison, to the ever more frightening act and punishment for treason itself.

They don't play around with these things, and there's no room for unintentional "mistakes" most times. Once you're in, it's exciting, but Secrecy and Honesty is absolutely required, as well as enforced.
edit on 17-7-2012 by SoulVisions because: fixed a paragraph typo


As far as your TS clearance goes, your "Level 3" or whatever would have been an internal classification for your location, field, job, etc. It just helps to compartmentalize things a bit better and avoid having any single person with access to all information. My TS w/SSBI clearance gets me nothing where you are at, and your TS gets you nothing where I am at. And this is a good thing for both of us.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by browha
What are the varying levels of classified/secret? And in what order? I only know of Classified, Highly Classified, Top Secret, (UMBRA?), and catergorical classification


It varies by country, but in the US you get restricted, confidential, secret and top secret. There really aren't any others.

Now, there are distribution modifiers/compartments. DOE has its own method - basically it's either L (secret) or Q (top secret) with compartment modifiers like sigma levels.

A top secret project can be compartmentalized, so it might be SCI. But SCI isn't "above top secret", it's just a distribution/compartment limiter. Same with a SAP.

SCI clearances can come single scope, fullscope, lifestyle, or counterintelligence.

It can be sort of confusing at first.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 01:32 AM
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Originally posted by flyswatter

Nope, thats not at all how the classifications work.

I must maintain a DOD-issued TS with an active SSBI for my employment. What does this mean? I get to look at what is needed for my job, it means nothing special at all (unless you get a kick out of knowing that they are having to re-investigate you every 5 years).


This.

What you've got access to is the trick for TS/SCI. Most TS are single scope, like flyswatter here. Other than a couple of ONI and AFOSI, and one or two agency wonks, I don't know anyone with CI's, we don't run in the same circles.

Engineering/science staff generally have single scope, depending on where in the loop you are. A design engineer by project is generally SSBI, but if you work for a place where each designer does varied stuff for more than one group (say Navy, Army, SOC, some NSA) you'll end up with lifestyle fullscopes just because you're in more than one food chain. System integrators tend to be fullscope.
edit on 18-7-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 01:38 AM
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Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli
reply to post by RedDogJT
 

There is no someONE responsible for classifying everything, except perhaps indirectly the President. Classification may be performed derivatively (I incorporate classified information, my product is now classified), by a security classification guide (technically another type of derivative classification), or by an original classification authority (there are few of these, but more than one). Most classified information is certainly generated outside the CIA. In the grand scheme of things, it's just one agency with a mission of limited scope.


And then there's DOE.

DOE can classify things "psychically". That is, your project may be classified even if it isn't yet, due to the "Born Secret" double secret probation trick.

If you're off doing the Next Big Neutron Source, you may think of it as a handy way to produce a burst of thermal neutrons with very tightly controlled timing, but the DOE will think of it as an initiator. Thus you may discover that you have been working on DOE's equivalent to TS/SCI without benefit of having been cleared for it, depending on what they decide after the fact.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by Bedlam
It varies by country, but in the US you get restricted, confidential, secret and top secret. There really aren't any others.

There is no restricted in the US classification system. There is Restricted Data, an AEA classification category, but that is completely different than the restricted classification level in many countries.


SCI clearances can come single scope, fullscope, lifestyle, or counterintelligence.

Single scope is a type of background investigation. It grants TS and may grant SCI eligibility, and it is required for certain positions based on risk level and sensitivity. FS and CI are polygraphs. Lifestyle is, AFAIK, a nickname for FS.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli

Originally posted by Bedlam
It varies by country, but in the US you get restricted, confidential, secret and top secret. There really aren't any others.

There is no restricted in the US classification system. There is Restricted Data, an AEA classification category, but that is completely different than the restricted classification level in many countries.


SCI clearances can come single scope, fullscope, lifestyle, or counterintelligence.

Single scope is a type of background investigation. It grants TS and may grant SCI eligibility, and it is required for certain positions based on risk level and sensitivity. FS and CI are polygraphs. Lifestyle is, AFAIK, a nickname for FS.


As far as documentation classification goes, the closest thing that the US has to "restricted" would be SBU - Sensitive But Unclassified.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli
There is no restricted in the US classification system.


Officially, it's FOUO, but it's commonly called restricted. At least we always did.



Single scope is a type of background investigation. It grants TS and may grant SCI eligibility, and it is required for certain positions based on risk level and sensitivity.


You always have the SSBI. But some SCI clearances require differing levels of poly. It tends to require more invasive poly the wider the scope of your access.

I think we're talking the same thing, I'm just being sloppy.


FS and CI are polygraphs. Lifestyle is, AFAIK, a nickname for FS.


Lifestyle and FS are used interchangeably at some places, but technically a fullscope is a CI poly plus lifestyle poly combined.
edit on 18-7-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 04:30 PM
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I did not mean to coop this thread by asking my question, but it seems all you smart guys with your security clearances miss my simple point. So I'll ask it a different way in order to overcome my own ignorance, since I was never offered any security clearance rating.

How is raw intelligence data that is pouring in from the field, off satellites, from drones and secret contacts classified?

How is it determined what classification such data gets, weather it is segmented and compartmentalized for dissemination into actionable intelligence, and to which organizations it is to flow?

edit on 19-7-2012 by RedDogJT because: to be more precise



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 04:30 PM
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reply to post by browha
 


The last level is Majestic.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by Bedlam
Officially, it's FOUO, but it's commonly called restricted. At least we always did.

Depends on the agency. It's FOUO in some agencies (e.g. military, IC), LIMDIS at NGA, LES for law enforcement, SBU at State, SSI at TSA ... and all of it is supposed become CUI at some point, but who knows when.


Lifestyle and FS are used interchangeably at some places, but technically a fullscope is a CI poly plus lifestyle poly combined.
edit on 18-7-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

Interesting. I don't think there is a lifestyle in CVS. Only CI and FS.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by RedDogJT
How is raw intelligence data that is pouring in from the field, off satellites, from drones and secret contacts classified?

How is it determined what classification such data gets, weather it is segmented and compartmentalized for dissemination into actionable intelligence, and to which organizations it is to flow?


Sorry. It can degenerate into peripheral shop talk. This is a much better question, though.

It depends a lot on who gathered the data, and why, and how.

At one level, the raw data is often classified under the project that produces it, at the outset. If it's something coming in from a Lacrosse, it's under that aegis to start. Then an NGIA analyst team gets it, pores over the data looking for items of general interest. The analysts may suggest dissemination of different analytic results packages to be delivered along with the data to interested parties - for example, if you're on record as being interested in movements of tracked vehicles in the Balkans or something, you might get this data by "push" over JWICS. You can also ask them, if you're looking for a one-off thing or you're fishing for corroboration of a ground asset observation and get it by SIPRNET or JWICS by "pull". Satellite imagery is generally default secret or TS depending on the type of asset that produced it, again back to inheriting the class of the producer.

A big PDF doc on NRO/NGIA data sharing

If you had something from a normal res satellite, it might go to NRO's unclassified GEOINT. If it's some sort of SCI/SAP metamaterial lens satellite with unnatural resolution, the undegraded images will be SCI and the people they'll share them with will be far fewer.

The entire data swapping/sharing thing is covered by EOs:
eo 12333

From the military side, there's a sort of bureaucracy in place to share and disseminate info that sort of rotates around NMJIC. It's in an old FM I've got, it's probably on the net - FM34-1.

They did a study on how well the DIA was getting info to the field a few years back - it turns out that they discovered that DIA got more info to the company level by the old buddy net than by the official routes. At first they were going to crack down on it but I think they did the smart thing (or so I heard) and actually sort of enshrined it for eternity. So if you're in the field and you need timely info on what's going on around you, you're better off if the company brass has an old foxtrot buddy at DIA who can pass him the data through the back door.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli

Originally posted by Bedlam
Officially, it's FOUO, but it's commonly called restricted. At least we always did.

Depends on the agency. It's FOUO in some agencies (e.g. military, IC), LIMDIS at NGA, LES for law enforcement, SBU at State, SSI at TSA ... and all of it is supposed become CUI at some point, but who knows when.


Lifestyle and FS are used interchangeably at some places, but technically a fullscope is a CI poly plus lifestyle poly combined.
edit on 18-7-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

Interesting. I don't think there is a lifestyle in CVS. Only CI and FS.


Well, my furtive background in my formative years was mostly military/DOD so that would make sense, even though I don't think I heard FOUO used very often.

I always thought lifestyle was a waste of time, maybe they do too...I still see lifestyle poly discussed in a way that makes it clear it's distinct from fullscope for some jobs just poking around. You tried looking in Scattered Castles?

edit to add: For the record, I am not soliciting you to reveal specific content from SC, just saying you might peek.

second edit to add: went to work and looked - you're right, it's CI or FS. The OPM only accepts those two classifications for coding, if you're transferring data from DOD's JPAS/DMDC or SC you have to code the polygraph level those two ways.
edit on 19-7-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)





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