Putin boasts new jet fighter better than U.S. plane

reply to post by Phage


Not saying that at all. I am merely saying that both these government have secret projects involving technology going on. For all we know, Russia could be fifty years ahead of America. I would say that with them releasing this model, they probably are ahead of the U.S.

reply to post by ventian

So....
What's the point of "releasing" technology that is fifty years obsolete?
Where's the benefit? Don't make much sense to me. "Our obsolete tech is better than your obsolete tech...neener neener".

the point of releasing it is we will advance in technology

It may very well end up being "better" but I was always under the impression That modern aircraft are more dependent on integrated systems and tactics. The f22/f35 seem to be highly advanced systems which I don't know if the Russians have developed these advanced stealthy tactics

[edit on 20-6-2010 by drock905]

reply to post by pavelivanov22

That is the nature of weaponry. Secrecy and transparency have little to do with it.

Last time East met West was in Georgia.

As I remember it, all those CIA spooks and US / Israeli military advisers ran for their very lives, and could not get out of Georgia fast enough as the Russian tanks rolled in.

The Russians liked all the Israeli radio controlled surveillance drones they captured so much, they actually bought more of them from Israel.

I don't know about all the secret US military electronic, communications, and optical hardware, the Russians took back for reverse engineering and study, but it must have been quite a rich haul.
Everyone evacuated Georgia so fast in blind panic, there was no time to destroy anything.

Yeah, while America has been at constant war all over the world, the Russians have been monitoring and listening, studying weapons performance and tactics. They will have countermeasures worked out, and for the Russians there will be no surprises when America tries to do it to Russia one day.

Russian technology is a bit of an unknown, but what we do know about is pretty good stuff. A strong Russian economy, and decades of very productive peace, have allowed the Russians to upgrade many systems without suffering the constant attrition of warfare.
In complete contrast the US is slowly being ground down by a failing US economy and the wear and tear of constant warfare on several fronts.

reply to post by Phage


Well, with the money it costs, I would say that it would have to be thoroughly tested before it is released.

The Russians have some impressive aircraft but to state it's better is jumping the gun. I remember reading about an incident that happened during the Korean war where a Mig pilot got cocky and made the mistake of trying to dog fight a Mustang at lower speeds than it was capable of and the Mustang pilot actually shot down the mig.

It's the pilots training that will always carry the day.

reply to post by Silver Shadow

Strong Russian economy? Since when?

ST. PETERSBURG, Russia — Russia will loosen the state's controls on the economy and abolish a key tax to spark a desperately needed "investment boom," President Dmitry Medvedev told a gathering of foreign business officials.

Medvedev invited more competition and vowed less state intervention in the economy, particularly by drastically reducing the number of state-controlled enterprises.

The moves are designed to attract massive foreign investment, without which Russia's oil-and-gas dependent economy — which shrank by nearly 8 percent last year — is doomed to stagnate, the Russian president said.

www.google.com...

reply to post by SLAYER69

Aye!

Airplanes don't kill airplanes. Pilots kill airplanes...
All things being sorta equal.

reply to post by Phage


The Russian economy is actually not doing too badly, especially compared to many other large countries.
Compared to the US and Europe it is positively thriving.

reply to post by Silver Shadow

Not really.
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by SLAYER69
It's the pilots training that will always carry the day.

It is actually a great many things. Pilot training and experience for sure, but also never forget supply, logistics, and keeping the hardware fueled , armed, and flying. Wise leadership and strategy are also vital.

Fools and traitors in the White House and Pentagon are far more dangerous to the US military than any foreign enemy.

But getting back to hardware..........
This is where America (and Israel) are most vulnerable.

High technology always proves fragile over long extended periods under harsh battle conditions. Ask the Iraq vets about sand and heat....

Shortage of spare parts and high tech ordinance will ground you.

America always wins a quick surgical strike where no resupply is needed.
But the US has lost every single extended ground war it has started over the last sixty years.

reply to post by Phage


do you understand that statistics can be manipulated ?

secondly , Russia has a positive forex reserve .

thirdly, its debt and unfunded obiligations are not bloated like USa and EU

fourthly , the next crisis is the sovereign debt crisis as predicted by George Soros,Jim Rogers,Gerald Celente which will devastate the western economies.

Originally posted by Silver Shadow

But the US has lost every single extended ground war it has started over the last sixty years.

Oh and the Russians just did a fantastic job in Afghanistan right? People tend to forget those parts of history that seem not to fit into their versions of history. The Iraq war is over, we are leaving.

The Korean war was a negotiated peace accord. So given your parameters then the Chinese also have not won any engagements Not to mention their disastrous involvement in Vietnam back in 1979, where in a matter of weeks the Vietnamese handed them their rear, or the Russians in the same last sixty year period either.

[edit on 20-6-2010 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by Phage


America appears to be more wealthy judged only on GDP, until you figure in debt, and the rate of debt increase. Spending all that borrowed foreign money sure swells your GDP.

With a credit card, any bum can live like a King for a very short time, but that is not real wealth.

Russia has only 50B debt, America 13,000B debt and climbing very steeply.
Russia has roughly half the population of the US for comparison, so it is fairly large.

So with all this vast American wealth, why are California and several other American states about to die financially ?
The vast wealth of America is a complete illusion.
Now that foreigners have stopped putting cash in your begging bowl, financial reality is about to strike down America very hard indeed.

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
So with all this vast American wealth, why are California and several other American states about to die financially ?
The vast wealth of America is a complete illusion.
Now that foreigners have stopped putting cash in your begging bowl, financial reality is about to strike down America very hard indeed.

Not to get too far off track, but do you really believe what you're saying?


Each state in the Union have their own International rating, California's is still higher than Russia's.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3505e6e0d395.gif[/atsimg]

[edit on 20-6-2010 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Oh and the Russians just did a fantastic job in Afghanistan right? People tend to forget those parts of history that seem not to fit into their versions of history. The Iraq war is over, we are leaving.
[edit on 20-6-2010 by SLAYER69]

Nobody has ever won in Afghanistan in all of History.
Even Alexander the Great was booted out on his ear.

Yes the Rooskies were beaten in Afghanistan.
They stood no chance.

And so was America when Bush and the Texas oil boys wanted to build that pipeline through Afghanistan to the Caspian sea.

The United Nations had to go in there and rescue America, and all the combined forces of the UN are now getting our asses kicked there too.

Afghanistan is just too hard
No shame in getting beaten there, we all have been.

Iraq was a huge mistake for America, you are fighting the resources of the entire world, and after seven years you will be retreating beaten, having achieved absolutely zero.
There never were any weapons of mass destruction, Bush lied, the whole world knows that. A fools war, and nothing to be proud of.

When America pulls out, the war will be over. The illegal invaders will be going home badly beaten.

Vietnam achieved nothing excepting to bankrupt America, and turn all America's former allies away. Nixon taking the US off the gold standard sowed the seeds of the great financial collapse we are about to see happen very very soon.

While Americans love starting wars, it has brought nothing but financial ruin and disaster upon America.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Yes, Ratings agencies are as crooked as the rest of the financial system.

Maybe you have heard about the real estate collapse in America ?

Sub prime borrowers with awful credit ratings were loaned money, and those hugely risky loans were repackaged and rated AAA+ and sold to suckers as solid reliable investment income.

Slayer, you are skating on very thin ice quoting the ratings agencies.

reply to post by sadchild01

You need to read my post where I stated 30 to 40 years excludes the Vietnam War (on purpose) to include modern types. I am specifically relating to conflict in more modern times. The Vietnam War comprised a wide range of types, although I do have information that says the F4 shot down 154 to a loss of 41 in air to air and a staggering 477 to ground fire the MIG 21 shot down 85 to a loss of 95. The significant majority of US losses were to ground fire. Happy to debate this in another thread.

The point remains... In the last 30-40 years Soviet / Russian kit has been found inferior to equivalent western kit.

I should add that I am surprised that the Russians are trying to field this type of aircraft. I wonder as the amount of activity on UCAVs by the west suggests to me that the next type of aircraft to be fielded will be unmanned and that opens up a new set of possibilities.

Regards