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Why it's easy for Illegals to take Americans' Jobs

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posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 04:25 PM
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I've been thinking about this for a while, and I came up with a theory about why it is so easy for illegals to take Americans' jobs.

At the beginning of the Industrial Revolution workers were treated like garbage by many of the employers (mostly in production). They were not getting paid enough, they were exposed to dangerous working environments, and benefits were nothing but a pipe dream.

In came the Unions. Workers came together and began to make demands of their employers. No longer would they allow anyone to mistreat them while they gave their all to a company that didn't really care about their well-being. We saw the abolishment of child labor, and workers were granted pay raises and certain rights on the job.

Later Unions made further demands of employers. Fair health benefits, retirement plans, vacation time, breaks on the job, and others we're already familiar with.

It's now 2010 and some Unions are still making high demands. Workers for certain big companies are taken care of like never before. Let's take for example GM's contract with the Auto Worker's Union.

UAW - Wikipedia


In a November 18, 2008, New York Times editorial, Andrew Ross Sorkin claimed that the average UAW worker was paid $70 per hour, including health and pension costs, while Toyota workers in the US receive $10 to $20 less.[13] The UAW asserts that most of this labor cost disparity comes from legacy pension and healthcare benefits to retired members, of which the Japanese automakers have none. Nor is it clear that labor costs, which are approximately 10% of a car's total cost, were the decisive factor in the decline of American automakers......According to the 2007 GM Annual Report, typical autoworkers earn a base wage of approximately $28 per hour. Following the 2007 National Agreement, the base starting wage was lowered to about $15 per hour.[15] A second-tier wage of $14.50 an hour, which applies only to newly-hired workers, is lower than the average wage in nonunion auto companies in the Deep South.[16]
One of the benefits negotiated by the the United Auto Workers was the jobs bank program, under which laid-off members received 95 percent of their take-home pay and benefits. More than 12,000 UAW members were paid this benefit in 2005.[17] In December 2008, the UAW agreed to suspend the program as a concession to help U.S. automakers during the auto industry crisis.[18]


(I wish I could offer other examples of Union deals as far as wages and benefits go, but I'm limited on time when it comes to that kind of research)

State worker unions are another example of where things are going wrong. When State Workers (on average) start making more money and get better benefits than people in the public sector, (the very people who pay their salaries and pensions) there's something off. It is disturbing that Unions should pay off politicians in order to sweeten the deal for their members to a point where it is impossible to sustain for long. It becomes an impossible burden on the private sector.

Americans have been battling employers for years. At first it was a fair and noble fight. They gained respect and received what was just.

However,... Looking and talking to certain individuals it seems that many Americans are now asking for too much. Even a small business must provide their workers with so much that it becomes next to impossible to stay alive on good days, not to mention during an economy such as the one we are experiencing now.

For some reason many American workers have reached a point where they feel entitled to certain things which sometimes go beyond the ability of any business to fulfill. Although some have not graduated high school or never attended college, they feel they deserve $15-$70.00 per hour, plus pension, plus paid holidays, plus bonuses every year, plus pay raises every 60 days, plus full-coverage health insurance, plus, plus, plus.... It's something nobody would be stupid enough to turn down, BUT..... we have to think about what this does to business. Never-mind the amount of taxes a business owner must pay each year depending on what State he/she conducts business in.

It is no surprise that some businesses begin to turn to illegal labor, or they move out of State/Country. Anyone who's ever ran a business knows how stressful and overwhelming it can be. It can take over your entire life, and it takes big brains to make it work. Depending on where you are located you begin to question whether the little profit you make makes all this stress worth while. In order to gain a higher profit your options are to either move out of State, outsource production, or turn to shady ways. Let's get real... nobody would stress to run a business if it wasn't profitable, and the appeal of the profit is what gets people to run their own business, which in turn creates new jobs.

I'd like to point out that I am not in favor of businesses turning to illegal labor. I think they should only be allowed to hire legal citizens or working permit holders. That being said, ....
What I AM saying is that it's time for some of these Unions to release their hard grip on American companies and businesses, and stop asking for outrageous benefits, hourly pays and pensions. Although they may not be fully responsible for companies hiring illegal labor, they certainly add a great percentage to it.

While the state workers union asks that nobody be fired in California even though the State is going bankrupt, we have more companies packing up and moving out, because they can't afford to do business in this State. Taxes are too high. They're high, because the State is going bankrupt and they're raising them to outrageous amounts in order to satisfy the Unions. Politicians allow this to happen, because Unions paved their way into office and made deals behind closed doors. It's a sick cycle that is destroying America. It has come to a point where it is financially difficult to hire legal Americans to work those jobs now filled by Illegals.

Here's another twist: Since businesses like hiring illegals, many times in order to stay afloat, some of the biggest ones finance politicians to stand in the way of certain immigration reform. They don't want the borders closed. They want the illegal labor to keep coming in. It's one way to stay in business within the borders of the U.S.A. and still be able to make a reasonable profit!

Why is the cost of some products soaring? Is it the cost of materials, or the cost of labor? Or the corporate greed? With the rising cost of things it becomes more difficult to live off the wages we used to live off of, which leads us to demand yet higher wages.

My question to the public is this; Are we asking for too much? Are we expecting more than we deserve (based on our education and experience)? Are we really entitled to all the things we want, or do we need to come down from the clouds and start realizing that unless we have worked hard for it, we do not deserve it?

To conclude.... it is my theory that until a good portion of American labor starts to realize that in the past 10, 20, 30 or so years they've taken more than they deserved, it will continue to be easy for illegals to take their jobs.

All this is just a theory of mine. I could be wrong of course. Feel free to offer your opinion. I'll listen.




posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by 2manyquestions
It's now 2010 and some Unions are still making high demands. Workers for certain big companies are taken care of like never before. Let's take for example GM's contract with the Auto Worker's Union.

Actually those contracts have been renegotiated down so the companies like GM, Ford, etc.. can compete in a global market.

In addition, GM, Ford, etc.. do not use illegals because of labor unions.


State worker unions are another example of where things are going wrong.

Again, unions aren't the reason why illegals are hired.


However,... Looking and talking to certain individuals it seems that many Americans are now asking for too much. Even a small business must provide their workers with so much that it becomes next to impossible to stay alive on good days, not to mention during an economy such as the one we are experiencing now.

Not true.


For some reason many American workers have reached a point where they feel entitled to certain things which sometimes go beyond the ability of any business to fulfill.

I assume the rock in which you're living under, does not receive cable. labor contract after labor contract has been re-negotiated, modified, etc.. in the last few years. US auto workers are on par with other countries auto workers.


It is no surprise that some businesses begin to turn to illegal labor,

They don't turn to illegal labor to survive. They turn to illegal labor to increase their profit margin. They are dishonest companies/individuals who will do whatever it takes to make a buck whether it be hire illegals, dump dangerous chemicals illegally, cover up massive oil spills, etc...



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 05:06 PM
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Having argued with a couple of relatives who work/worked for GM, I can tell you most of the workers cannot make the connection between the ridiculous UAW demands and the near collapse of GM.

The union put GM in a position where it could not even hope to compete with the likes of Toyota, Honda etc.

And yet they'll still be out there striking, whining about how they can't make ends meet on 40 dollars an hour + benefits.

Yes, contracts have been negotiated, but there is still whining amongst the GM workers (not all, but my uncle says there is still discontent with the new contract).

Forgive me if I don't sympathize.

[edit on 10-6-2010 by Darkrunner]



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 05:19 PM
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Then explain why Americans were displaced from non union jobs with FEW benefits. (construction no American will work for minimum wage when the are a journeyman with years of experience)

Or why no illegals will work dirty underground mining jobs no mater what the wages. (i know why)



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 05:22 PM
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Sorry, but this is BS.

The reason why undocumented workers get jobs so easily? Becuase corporations will gladly pay someone slave wages as opposed to a living wage.

Any other reason is deflection.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Sorry, but this is BS.

The reason why undocumented workers get jobs so easily? Becuase corporations will gladly pay someone slave wages as opposed to a living wage.

Any other reason is deflection.


I agree with this.

We need to break the back of corporations found employing illegal aliens. One million dollar fine first offense. Five million second offense and so on.

It will never happen, but wouldn't it be great if it did...



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by 2manyquestions
 


Are illegals taking American jobs? Or just the work that Americans feel is beneath them?

When I lived in Texas we rarely got door to door sellers but when we did it was always a hispanic person asking to mow the lawn. Well the very last time someone came by we conceded and let him mow the lawn. His price: 30 dollars. The amount of time it took him? About 45 minutes.
So here is the deal: Illegals are not taking hi-tec jobs or office jobs...just the ones that you don't want.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by packinupngoin
reply to post by 2manyquestions
 


Are illegals taking American jobs? Or just the work that Americans feel is beneath them?

When I lived in Texas we rarely got door to door sellers but when we did it was always a hispanic person asking to mow the lawn. Well the very last time someone came by we conceded and let him mow the lawn. His price: 30 dollars. The amount of time it took him? About 45 minutes.
So here is the deal: Illegals are not taking hi-tec jobs or office jobs...just the ones that you don't want.


Wrong.

The truth is somewhere in between. It is not just the worst jobs that these people are taking. It you dont beleive me, walk on to any construction site.



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by packinupngoin
reply to post by 2manyquestions
 


Are illegals taking American jobs? Or just the work that Americans feel is beneath them?

illegals are taking Americans jobs. Hopefully that clears it up.


When I lived in Texas we rarely got door to door sellers but when we did it was always a hispanic person asking to mow the lawn.

I would assume its based on ethnic background of the area you live in. I get mostly caucasion and black individuals where I live going door to door.


Well the very last time someone came by we conceded and let him mow the lawn. His price: 30 dollars. The amount of time it took him? About 45 minutes.
So here is the deal: Illegals are not taking hi-tec jobs or office jobs...just the ones that you don't want.

Actually plenty of Americans DO want those jobs. What makes you think they don't?



posted on Jun, 10 2010 @ 05:46 PM
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BAsically what makes your arguement null and void is that many companies are reporting higher profits then ever.

It isn't about trying to pay a worker, it is about stockholders who want their pockets to go ever deeper, and the division of the rich against the poor.



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by 2manyquestions
It's now 2010 and some Unions are still making high demands. Workers for certain big companies are taken care of like never before. Let's take for example GM's contract with the Auto Worker's Union.

Actually those contracts have been renegotiated down so the companies like GM, Ford, etc.. can compete in a global market.

In addition, GM, Ford, etc.. do not use illegals because of labor unions.


They were negotiated down ONLY because GM was going under, and the Union saw that if it allowed GM to go down, it's workers would go with it. It's like the parasite trying to keep the host alive, sucking up less blood to keep it at the brink of life. No worries, those contracts will be renegotiated to astronomical amounts once it looks like GM is coming back to life again.

I realize they're not hiring illegals. It was my intention to point out that some part of the legal American labor tries to suck the life out of the companies they work for, and then they wonder why so many companies move overseas.


State worker unions are another example of where things are going wrong.


Again, unions aren't the reason why illegals are hired.


Again, you missed my point. Due to the high demands of the State Worker Unions, State governments are hungry for more and more tax dollars to keep them satisfied, taking it out on the Private sector (both small business and their employees). When it comes to the point where a small business or a regular Joe Worker can't afford to live in that state anymore due to the increased taxes, he/she/it moves to a new, better location. Sometimes that's out of State, or out of the country, or out of business. Sometimes that leads small businesses to hire illegal workers in order to keep the costs down.


However,... Looking and talking to certain individuals it seems that many Americans are now asking for too much. Even a small business must provide their workers with so much that it becomes next to impossible to stay alive on good days, not to mention during an economy such as the one we are experiencing now.


Not true.


Not true for all, but true for many. People want weeks of paid vacations, paid holidays, big benefits, huge pensions, this, that and the other. Some are quite demanding, and the ones in a Union most daring to try to get their way by striking on the job. Nothing is enough for some of these people, and they don't seem to care that they're starting to hurt the business they're working for.


For some reason many American workers have reached a point where they feel entitled to certain things which sometimes go beyond the ability of any business to fulfill.


I assume the rock in which you're living under, does not receive cable. labor contract after labor contract has been re-negotiated, modified, etc.. in the last few years. US auto workers are on par with other countries auto workers.


I don't care what the contract is, the fact is they want too much, and they took and took until there was nothing left to take anymore. Now they're negotiating, and as I stated above, only to keep companies such as GM alive, because they just now realized that if they kill off the host, they'll die themselves.


It is no surprise that some businesses begin to turn to illegal labor,


They don't turn to illegal labor to survive. They turn to illegal labor to increase their profit margin. They are dishonest companies/individuals who will do whatever it takes to make a buck whether it be hire illegals, dump dangerous chemicals illegally, cover up massive oil spills, etc...


That's not true for every business. Let's not demonize every single business owner out there. Some are just trying to make it. Yes, some people are scum, but that's not true for everybody. I've known people in the construction business (among others) who've had experience working with both illegals and with American laborers. I've heard stories about how difficult it was to get legal Americans to work half as hard as the illegal Mexicans, and then the Americans expected to get paid more.

Don't get me wrong. I am not defending the hiring of illegals. Not at all! My point is only that due to all the protections and rights that a legal American worker has been blessed with these past few decades, some take too much advantage of their employers, because they know they can get away with it (especially when Unionized). When a business can hire someone who doesn't require extraordinary perks (and no, I'm not talking about the truly earned benefits an employer should bestow upon his work force), they will be tempted to hire someone who's willing to work for a little less, will appreciate his/her position, and won't constantly complain about it.



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by nixie_nox
BAsically what makes your arguement null and void is that many companies are reporting higher profits then ever.

It isn't about trying to pay a worker, it is about stockholders who want their pockets to go ever deeper, and the division of the rich against the poor.



Highest profits ever? What??? In this economy??? How's that possible? If the numbers are up, it's probably only because these days money is worth less, and therefore the numbers may look bigger. If they're making so much money, why would they cut down on their work force?

We're not just talking about the huge companies,... most of which by the way don't hire illegal workers (unless we're talking certain types of production such as food and clothing), it's the small businesses who are more likely to do so. I don't know anything about the stockholders' pockets, so I'll keep out of that.



posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by packinupngoin
reply to post by 2manyquestions
 


Are illegals taking American jobs? Or just the work that Americans feel is beneath them?

When I lived in Texas we rarely got door to door sellers but when we did it was always a hispanic person asking to mow the lawn. Well the very last time someone came by we conceded and let him mow the lawn. His price: 30 dollars. The amount of time it took him? About 45 minutes.
So here is the deal: Illegals are not taking hi-tec jobs or office jobs...just the ones that you don't want.


As someone above me mentioned, there's plenty of illegals working construction jobs. We're talking $20.00+ an hour.
As for mowing the lawn, I'm sure there's a young legal-citizen student out there who could use $30.00.
Picking fruit? Hell, young students could be doing that work too. I've seen it done in Europe. It's not an easy job, but it's not a terribly back-breaking job either. Why not hire the younger people to make some pocket money? We've got people of all ages who could use a job, any job,.... it's just a question of whether they'll turn their noses up at it. The reality is that legal Americans need to stop asking for more than the job they're doing deserves. If the legal American work-force wasn't so demanding, I'm sure the need for illegals would drop at least by half.




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