Ontario Pit Bull ban not reducing BITES

reply to post by americanwoman


That is actually very sad.
A rare case.Chances are if the dog had have attacked a 4 year old the dog would most likely be dead....
A sad, rare and tragic case of a lap dog that killed.
Are you implying the mother of that child was a deviant?

One of the basic rules of bringing a baby home is DONT leave it alone with pets,in the bath or on a change table alone.

I'm not attempting to detract from the chils death but pretty much anything can kill a six week old baby,they are utterly helpless.
Now a creature that can overpower an adult human,thats a risk factor.
If a yappy little dog like that attacked a kid, not a INFANT,BABY OR TODDLER they would more than likely be able to defend their life.

I'm still yet to see a derro with a pomeranian, they just don't give off that i'm so tough,don't f@#k with me vibe that most derros want to portray.....

reply to post by PuterMan


I was being facetious.

Chill out.

reply to post by mumma in pyjamas


My true point of getting this out there again is the fact that the police are breaking down doors, entering peoples private homes and in some drastic cases shooting the dogs on the front lawns of peoples house in front and the owners and their children..... If you advocate this then I can't imagine what else you stand for???

Where do you get your information???

Bred to be killers? Oh Please.....
Did you read the link about Pitbulls? I think not.

Your statements tell me that you would also support this:

blogs.westword.com...

Do yourself a favor and get some facts about the breed. Dont be a sheeple and like many just assume before researching the facts.

The dogs are the most dedicated and loving dogs I have ever seen. People like the idiots who breed them for fighting are the cause......So if they are good fighters thats because they are doing this to please their owners.

Maybe we should start banning Roosters as they too can be lethel.

The politicians are doing this to gain votes PERIOD. and in turn taking your rights with them

well most of the time it is how the owner trains the dog .
funny thing is people with poodles of Chiwaways think its so cute to teach the dog to growl and act like its going to bite. makes me want to step on the little noise maker lol.
anyway with the more primitive types of breeding like pits dobys sheperds and even the herders . THEY ARE A DOG act like they are people .
they are not human trying to treat them as such can make a dangers dog.
A dog life is a totalitarian society.
They understand and ONLY understand Chain of command.
alpha bata and on down the line .
so you have 2 choices ether you are THE ALPHA or the dog is . Pick one.The dog MUST KNOW his her place in the pack. YOU and your family are the PACK.
I had a Australian shepherd (with her tail) the pack order for her was as follows ME my Wife the kids starting with the oldest down to when the new baby was born first thing I did was lay the baby against the dog and show her THIS was her new pack mate she didn't have to like it just know It was higher then her in the PACK so that baby could pull her ears or tail the only excepted response was to get up and move to another chair.
now She was the top dog I rescued many from the dump ( small town)
first thing she did was let the new dog know she was in Charge of all dogs cats birds fish lolol.
and I would back her up with that . once i got a saint Barnard mix BIG male she weighed 48 pounds soking wet the saint weighed alest 90 she went to tell him who was boss lol well he didn't like the idea .
Big mistake on his part as I made sure he know she WAS boss.
anyway he didn't get the luxury of hand picked new owner as I pick the first person who would take him.
I loved her she loved me we had a few other dogs that lived there whole life with us as well she know who was staying and who was just a temp.
man i miss her .
anyway treat a dog like a DOG not a human man they accutly put carrots in Alpo people its not a rabbit lolol
give a dog structure and it will live a long happy life and never bite the mail man lolol but will stop a prowler DEAD in his tracks

reply to post by PuterMan



I am more then happy to accept that there are occasions where ANY breed of dog can has and will attack.

I read your link and found a badly formatted list of ranom entries with no soures sited, no links and the most recent entry 5 years old.

Please find a credible link that is well set out with comprehensive listings and headings that are either breed or occurence related headings EG A list of deaths caused by all breeds Or a list of events perpetrated by certain breeds eg Poodle attacks.Perhaps this is part of the problem everytime someone tries to change my mind the QUALITY of h evidence is rangin from poor to laughable.

The best source to date is the pomeranian and that fails to recognise that amost anyone would have a reasonable chance of survining.

And people go to prison,and in some cases and places, are "awarded" the death penalty.

So some people DO die for attacking others.
Are you suggesting....dog prison?

reply to post by mumma in pyjamas


Agreed it was not a particularly good link, but really what is to stop you doing your own research and then providing us with links to support your point of view?

You cannot be spoon fed throughout life and sometimes do actually need to do something yourself to back your own feelings and prove your point. You stated that poodles have never hurt anyone - so prove it.

There are not a huge amount of statistics out there, but this is one for bites. Unfortunately it does not say what period of time this covers.

Here is another link

Now I accept that attacks by poodles are almost as rare as hen teeth, but the point is that they are known and therefore your statement was invalid.

Just found this link. Some interesting statistics here from the USA.

And here are some Canadian statistics

[edit on 6/6/2010 by PuterMan]

reply to post by unruly1


I do not support that disgusting link.And take exception to the fact that you have personally questioned my entire moral fibre on the grounds that I do not agree that PB's have no place in an urban setting because they are too powerful.Although not part of the OP there area lot of dogs I think have no place in the city/suburban areas.And no relevance in such settings.Keeping a sheep hearder in a unit,for instance is not a relevant setting.

I also would like to thank you for expressing your respect and empathy in regards to my experience of seeing my 7 year old friend mauled almost killed,hospitalsed and scared very badly permeantly by a pit bull.I see you'r compassion for dogs was extended to my little friend and all the unwilling witnesses.

It is horrible to know that kids have seen their dogs shot.Just as it was awful for me to see my mate almost die.
Like most police raids the ones described are over the top.
I am yet to see any raid by police that was civil.

To deny PB's were bred for stregnth&power is just invalid.I have read a lot about them, and I for one have seen the power,stregnth and savagery first hand.

All those poor dead dogs , if citizens had not had them there would be nothing to show,how could they claim to 'love' dog that will end up in a big pile of dead dogs if they are found with it?I love you soooo much i am wlling to risk your very life on it.

Something else to consider that further illustrates the stupidity of a breed ban.

Let's just say the paranoid fools are right. For the sake of argumen let's say that a certain breed is somehow genetically disposed to killing babies or some other nonsense. The bans are always toward the number one offender. Well, in the fantasy world where bans actually work the end result will still be simply the moving of number 2 into the number 1 slot. No doubt causing the dimwitted to lash out with a ban on number 2 now number 1.

So where would the line be? How many bites are acceptable and not requiring a ban? Every breed has a bite on record. Does it matter if the bite is due to harassment of the animal or training or lack of training or territorial defense?

Where does stupidity stop? Best simply to stop it before it starts.

The uk banned their guns. Knives took the place. They banned certain knives. Afraid to look stupid they are now pickig and choosing their bans. Up now is a ban on glasses in bars because people are smashing them and using them to cut in drunken fights. Which ban is the answer? Sharp things? Beer? Going out at night? People?

Never in the history ofthe world has a ban ever worked. I know why politicians keep pushing them. Their constituents are paranoid morons and what politician has ever passed on increasing government control and the criminal pool?

You have to stop being stupid now. Not later. Not after you've tried it for a while and decided it wasn't working. Now.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by PuterMan


My origial opinion on pitbulls was based on the mauling by a PB that I witnessed as a child,no one 'spoon fed' me that opinion,i saw it.

And i have since done my own research and the advocates are always owners and or breeders.who insist their dog is just lovely and that indeed by nature all PB's are.
So here is my major problem with that argument

1.So was the dog that almost murdered my pal,according to his owner
2.In the event they have a dog who was raised correctlu and that it just 'snaps' the damage is too severe for the victim
3.I get people like dogs and have a right to own them but WHY does it have to be a dog bred to be so strong
4.I think any dog not limited to PB's that the average person has little chance of defendig against,and a brutal history has no place in suburbia.

I'm not sure if my links work i usually get my partner to put in the links but he's at work.
Just google pit bull attck images,over 3million images
you tube pit bull attacks



pit-bulls.christianfunfair.org...

Originally posted by mumma in pyjamas
reply to post by PuterMan

 

My original opinion on pitbulls was based on the mauling by a PB that I witnessed as a child,no one 'spoon fed' me that opinion,i saw it.

Actually I was not commenting on that, and of course that is sad and should not happen. This was about poodles and whether they ever attacked anyone.

And i have since done my own research and the advocates are always owners and or breeders.who insist their dog is just lovely and that indeed by nature all PB's are.
So here is my major problem with that argument

1.So was the dog that almost murdered my pal,according to his owner

Regrettably this is almost always the case. I do not hold the view that any breed should be banned, but the PB by it's nature will have a much more successful kill rate. I do hold the view that the humans should be vetted for fitness to own a dog of that nature.

Now to annoy the Pit Bull owners.

Until the early part of the 19th century the Bulldog was bred with great care in England for the purpose of baiting bulls

Source

I don't hold with that and personally see no reason in the modern world for a PB. On the other hand there is also little or no reason for those nasty snappy little things.

2.In the event they have a dog who was raised correctlu and that it just 'snaps' the damage is too severe for the victim

Agreed.

3.I get people like dogs and have a right to own them but WHY does it have to be a dog bred to be so strong

No reason that I can think of.

4.I think any dog not limited to PB's that the average person has little chance of defendig against,and a brutal history has no place in suburbia.

Not sure that I would say no place, but I would definitely agree that much stricter controls should be placed on the humans owning them.

This really goes for any dog. The owners need training, and possibly need to hold a handling certificate. The primary thing is that owners must understand the dog. It is NOT just a family pet, however they view it, it is a member of a pack.

One way to reduce the risks might be to only allow neutered males, and of course bitches, in the population at large, with uncut dogs only available to registered breeders.

[edit on 6/6/2010 by PuterMan]

Pit bulls were bred for one reason,to fight,I love these endless storys how pit bulls are the nicest dogs,then hear of owners being sued because the dog attacked someone,or had small child visiting and tears them up,I'm sure if you asked enough people they would like to have a nucleur bomb for a pet,the bomb's not bad just the people who us it

Originally posted by RRokkyy
reply to post by unruly1

 

How can a banned dog bite anyone?
You folks must be nuts.
And yes if a dog kills someone the owner should face
the same penalty. Maybe then they would be more responsible.
If the dog seriously injures someone the owner should lose all
their material possessions and have their salary garnished.

People with dogs that bark incessantly hate their neighbors
and thats why they have such dogs.

No Pit Bull owner has agreed to my terms.
People own PBs because they are Extreme Dogs,Extremely Powerful and Extremely Intimidating to other people. Its about status. Just as people
want a Macaw instead of a little parrot.

People should be free to own weapons,dogs,and take whatever chemicals they want. But they should be held accountable for their actions.
But we know in our society there is little justice. If your dog mauls someone you might get fined. Only if the other person is rich would you end up in court and then you would only face a small judgment.
Which is why the bad behavior of the 1 percent ruins it for everyone else.

I dont think you typically see Pit Bulls at doggy parks,why is that?????

www.pbrc.net...
PBRC does not recommend dog parks or dog daycares. There are a number of reasons why:

o While dogs can learn good social skills at a daycare or park, they can just as easily learn poor social skills in these largely unsupervised situations. For example, a dog that is fearful around other dogs can become even more skittish in a large pack of rowdy dogs. By the same token, a pushy dog may bully other dogs without a human to correct this behavior. The ratio of staff per dog in many dog daycare settings is so low, making it difficult to control the experience for each individual dog.
o Dogs in a pack act very differently than they do individually; even a
well-socialized dog of good temperament can be drawn into “pack
behavior.”
o There's no way to predict or know the behavior of the other dogs in the group at a park or daycare; many people take their dogs to daycares or dog parks with little understanding of their own dogs' tolerance for other dogs; there is often an expectation that “dogs will work it out” however this can occur in a way that results in injury.
o Dogs playing together for long periods of time in large groups with
unstructured time or activities can result in inappropriate behavior. Some examples of inappropriate behavior that may develop or be rehearsed when unsupervised are: mounting other dogs, antagonizing other dogs, destructive chewing, and excessive barking.
o Dog playgroups need to be carefully selected by competent readers of dog body language and with an understanding of social canine behavior; there are many people, well-intentioned, operating dog daycares with very little experience with dogs and, in particular, with little pit bull experience.
o If something does go wrong, whether or not the pit bull instigates it, the
pit bull is usually blamed; every negative incident reflects not only on the
individual dog, but on bull breeds as a whole.
o If provoked in a fight, some dogs will not back away from a challenge. Whether your dog is the victim or the instigator, a negative incident can result in future problems during dog-dog interactions.

Here’s what other pit bull savvy groups have to say about dog parks:
www.badrap.org...

Here is some additional information on dog aggression and dog interactions:
www.badrap.org...

Lastly, some dog daycares and dog parks prohibit bull breeds from attending.
While PBRC does not support any legislation or policies that are breed
specific, we hope that owners will make responsible choices and set their
dogs up for success and for safe fun!

reply to post by RRokkyy


I agree

The woman I married has 2 Am Staff terriers and she is very aware of the stigma about them. She and her counterparts that have this breed are very careful that the dogs are NEVER left on their own and always on leash. This isnt because these particular dogs are dangerous...It's because of the image thats been portrayed.

But saying this I believe no matter what breed the dog is they ALL need to be supervised.

This supervision is all part of letting the dog know its place in life.

IS THIS TRUE?Four deaths in five years in one county?


New rule could require owners to alter pit bulls

County supervisors hope a new ordinance will cut down on the number of pit bulls impounded in shelters.
By Courtney Vaughn
Hi-Desert Star
Published: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:47 AM CDT
SAN BERNARDINO — After four human deaths in the past five years caused by pit bull attacks in San Bernardino County, and two child deaths this year alone, county officials are trying to step up animal control enforcement.

The ordinance comes in response to the high numbers of pit bulls and pit-bull mixes in shelters, as well as public concern following six reported attacks this year, according the county’s Animal Care and Control division.

“The public is clearly concerned about the overpopulation of pit-bull-type dogs in our county. This ordinance will control the pit bull population and keep the county from having to house and eventually destroy so many of these dogs,” Mitzelfelt, supervisor of the 1st District, stated in a release from his office.

*
Animal Care and Control reports pit bulls are the type of dog most often put to death at county shelters.

County shelters impounded 1,717 pit-bull-type dogs during the last fiscal year. Of that group, 77 percent were euthanized.

Throughout the county, this type of breed is difficult to adopt. Locally though, tough restrictions at the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center, which bans the breed altogether, make it harder for shelters like the no-kill one in Joshua Tree.

“It’s a little bit harder to place them because of the base ordinances. We get a lot of military families who want to adopt out here,” the shelter’s manager, Michelle Willey, said.

If the ordinance passes, pit bull owners in unincorporated areas — not Yucca Valley or Twentynine Palms — will be given 30 days to sterilize their dogs, if they are not already altered. A $100 fine will be imposed for those who do not comply.

Vouchers worth $50 to be used toward the cost of the surgery will be available to dog owners who qualify.

Brian Cronin, division chief of Animal Care and Control for the county, says some exceptions have been made for licensed breeding kennels.

“We’ve provided what we feel are reasonable exemptions for people who are responsible breeders,” he said over the phone Monday.

Ok, I realize this is a very old thread, but I felt the need to put in my two cents, so here it is...
I own a "pit bull". I also live in Ontario. (For the record, my pit was born in early 2005, before the ban came into effect.). I am completely in favour of regulating and controlling the people who own these dogs, not only for the benefit of the neighbourhood, but also for the benefit of these dogs. As others have previously stated in this thread, some people obtain these dogs for no reason other than protection, status, intimidation, or whatever you want to call it. For the most part, these people are not responsible dog owners, nor do they properly train their dog at all.
I decided to own a pit bull type dog because I honestly love their big block-heads and muscle-y bodies. I love their personalities and their drive to please you as an owner. A pit bull will do anything to make you happy, and the sad thing is that the people who obtain these dogs for the wrong reasons often ask these pits to do things they wouldn't do otherwise. These people do not take the time to properly socialize or train their dogs.
In my opinion, these dogs are very misunderstood by the public, due to the negative stigma created by irresponsible owners and perpetuated by the media. The irresponsible owners are the ones who allow their dogs to roam freely, or bite another dog/person during a walk. These are the people participating in dog-fights. These are the people abusing their dogs. These are the people who lock dogs up in stash-houses with barely any food and no attention. These dogs are then exposed to the public, whether by accident or on purpose, and something horrible happens because this dog had the bad luck of being raised by the wrong person. The media then reports on it, sensationalizes it, and the public is given the wrong image of these dogs.
This leads to less families owning the dogs, and more "less desirable" people getting them, due to the pit bulls "tough image" which is constantly perpetuated by the media. Banning the breed could even make it more attractive to these bad dog owners.
I've done a significant amount of research on pit bulls, and found something I think is very interesting:
The American Temperament Testing Society (ATTS) Test.

ATTS was established to:
- Provide for a uniform national program of temperament testing of purebred and spayed/neutered mixed-breed dogs.
- Conduct seminars to disseminate information to dog owners, dog breeders and evaluators (testers) concerning dog psychology, motivation, reaction and other aspects of temperament testing.
- Recognize and award certificates to dogs that pass the requirements of the temperament evaluation. Work for the betterment of all breeds of dogs.
- Select, train, prepare and register temperament evaluators.

Source: atts.org...
The ATTS subjects the dogs to various visual, auditory, and tactile stimuli, such as rocks rattling in a bucket, gunshots, suddenly openeing umbrellas, or a friendly stranger. The dogs are put through 10 sub-tests in total to determine their temperament. It is considered a failure if the dog shows unprovoked aggression, panic without recovery, or strong avoidance.
Source: atts.org...
So, I went through and found all the results for American Staffordshire Terriers, American Pit Bull Terriers, and Staffordshire Bull Terriers (since these are the dogs that are specifically outlined in the Ontario bill)
American Staffordshire Terrier - 84.2% pass rate
American Pit Bull Terrier = 86.4% pass rate
Staffordshire Bull Terrier = 89.7% pass rate
This is an average pass rate of 86.7% for these three dogs.
Source: atts.org...

It is also interesting to note that this is a higher pass rate than the Australian Shepherd (81.6%), The Collie (79.9%), and the Shetland Sheepdog. Remember this test is considered a failure if the dog shows any unprovoked aggression, and is NOT an intelligence test. 20.1% of collies failed this test. 13.3% of pit bull type dogs failed this test. All I am trying to prove is that they are not inherently aggressive, and that many other dogs can be aggressive.
Please don't lump all Pit Bulls, or all pit bulls owners into the same category as the drug dealers and thugs who decided this breed was cool. Many of us responsible pit bull owners own pit bulls that would never hurt a fly. My pit is great around children, cats, small rodents, other dogs, strangers, sudden noises, etc. The only time I have seen her become aggressive was a few years back when a bunch of teenagers came up to me and tried to rob me of my phone and money. She bared her teeth and sent them on their way because I was so afraid. I would expect ANY dog to protect their owner in this way.

I love my pitty.

reply to post by mumma in pyjamas


These dogs were not bred to be killers, they were bred as "BULL DOGS".

Ever see the stereotypical bull with a ring in it's nose?

These dogs would take the bull by the ring, and make the bull go where the owner wanted them to go.

That is the reason their ability and urge to "hold on" is and was so valued.

They also are willing to face anything their owner may ask, and not give up; which is why they became such noted fighting dogs.

Dogs bred to kill: Akitas. Shar Peis.

The owner of any of these powerful dogs should be educated prior to ownership. period.

Something no one mentions regarding pit bulls is that they sometimes must be stopped from what they are doing, in order to make sure they stop for water breaks. If they don't there may be heatstroke and therefore brain damage.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Ridiculous the family pet needs to be hidden in the attic like Anne Frank.

Of course the ban doesn't do anything. No ban ever does anything.

The problem with dogs attacking is rooted solely with the owners of the dog. A ghetto trash inbred moron who wants an angry agressive dog will have an angry agressive dog whether it's a chiuahua or one of the many breeds commonly referred to as "bull dog".

Interestingly enough those "bull dog" breeds consistently score higher on the temperment scale than many other breeds commonly thought of as "safe".

There is no difference between a ban on a breed of dog and a ban on a race of human.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Your not far from the truth. If PETA and their satanic animal rights activist's have there way, all domesticated animals would be extinct. And there would be non human-animal interaction at all. My guess is they will use this to target all dogs and eventually see a total ban on dog's.

Well these dogs are insanely popular, and there is over population, with any large population the incidents will go up.

The sad thing is the people these dogs are popular with (some not all) are irresponsible dog owners, simply as shown by the fact the pounds are filled with these puppies.

I got a blue nose puppy from the pound here in riverside county ca, the entire pound was filled with these dogs, I have to say the dog I got is one of the most subdued mellow dog I have ever known. Shes a ham who loves everyone, from small children to small dogs, she treats them all gently.

At 70 pounds shes is a gentle giant now, Responsible owner equals balanced calm dog who will not bite...

BSL is a form of institutional wealthism and racism, simply ways to deny the poor their liberty.

Why not ban cars as too many criminals flee scense of crimes in a car? Why not bad doctors as they kill more people in accidents than anything else?

Why not legalize the endeavors that the dogs are being used for by the "criminal" element, thusly removing the profitability of the endeavor and doing away with the violent crime that is associated with the endeavor. Prohibition NEVER helped anyone or anything.

Derek

reply to post by unruly1


My buddy got a german shepherd. Guess what, the thing is terrified of men, it has lunged at me multiple times, of course my buddy then engages me by yelling at me saying "You got too close man,"... I just returned to my seat from taking a whiz, although my friend believes he has trained his dog (granted, it can shake paw, lay down, and stuff) the dog is a danger. This guy criticizes me for not having my dogs trained, but both of my dogs aren't aggressive, even if they don't lie down on command.

So when it comes down to it, it is all in the owner. Do I believe my friend could adjust his dog... YES. Is he taking the right apprach? NO...

If I were him I would never start yelling at the person who my dog just attacked- don't you think the dog might be thinking "Yeah, you tell em boss'."

Regardless, I have met friendly pitpuls and mean Shih-tsu's.

All in the owner.

Ontario resident here