Star Trek. World without No money.. How?

Based upon your mental wellbeing, physical capability, and societal contribution you are granted access to certain recources.

When "buying" a home... You are matched up with availible houses given number of occupants, physical capabilites, and societal contribution. Buying the house will just be a social phrase that will endure.

The federation only works because they have replicators and what amounts to free energy.

Without the ability for everyone to have whatever they want, that whole interstellar communist love-fest falls apart.

Fred's right too; it is also bloody inconsistent.

reply to post by SentientBeyondDesign


My friend, As long as a lone woman is raped and a child is abused we as a race is nothing more than maggots on the grave of a rat. My post is my first attempt to discern a probable outcome of the very immeniment end of the current cult of money. All abusers will end at once. Theif's both low and high , coorporate, will come to an end. These human vultures will try to maintan their activities on the beginings of whatever monetary solution is considered to be wholesome to the planet
My musings are what will the harm be that allows the planet in total to be human equal. No matter where you were fortunate to be born or close to borders of more financialy aware countrys.


I say finances should be done away with.

We as a race of humans have a desire to breed and exhist.
This desire has seperated the masses and created the have and have nots .

I'll state that studies have shown that a woman child is most attracted to a man that appears to be able to protect her children and give them a greater foothold on the ladder of evolution. Dare anyone to counter.

If all of the animal instincts are removed...ie survival..then perhaps the creative areas of our collective minds will be enhanced by the riddance. This would be like loosing a "sense" seeing , smelling , feeling.. Survival being the most dominant sense in combining all to the effect of surval. IF that is an inherant attribute of a new paridigm and food / shelter is a by product ...What would be the credit/money?







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reply to post by awakentired



Real change could only come with a new paradigm, imo, one where everyone has an equal opportunity to better themselves, and can fill their minds and aspirations with something more than just making ends meet.

Even though we do, as you say, have all the resources and abilities now, we still do not see many changes due to greed, selfishness and separateness. 2 of the most influencing actions for change are war and technological advances. I would rather see the latter help lift us from this turmoil.

Sci Fi doesn't always mean impractical or impossible, and I believe technology will be one of the sources for our liberation from slavery. That is, if we don't blow ourselves up first.

Peace

reply to post by awakentired


Using your logic we would have to become robots to avoid being grave rat maggots or somesuch.

You're fantasizing too hard.

reply to post by speculativeoptimist


I feel that the new Paradigm started today. Why ? You may ask. Let it be known now I'm not a writer...my grammar and punctation is poor..I'm just a human beign with a computer.

Today I cried.

I am almost 50 years old and I can count on one hand how many times I have cried. The atrocity of Israel broke my defenses. I prefer to kill than cry. I prefer to silence than cry. I have done both. Today i cried.

I realize now that there is a new paradigm...paradigm shift if you will.

My challenge to those that read this statement is how can it be engineered to be fair for alll?
What should happen to the abusers of the old paradigm..ie rockefellers, rothchildes?

reply to post by Exuberant1


No . Your dismissing too easily. Think and contribute. Easy it is to tear down. Hard to build.. Are you a builder?

Originally posted by awakentired
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

Are you a builder?

Oh dear.

I just read your last posts.

We're done here.

reply to post by speculativeoptimist


K
I invoked scifi in bringing startrek into the title of the thread.
I would like to be more pragmatic. The economic system of the world is coming to an end.
What should we , as people of the world, accept as a replacement of the illusion of money that we once had.

I wold like to see a wealth "meter" that is full on th moment of birth and all have choices that purchase things from that meter. Activities that benefit the "world" bring credits to your "family" meter. Being caught stealing bring demerits to your "family" meter.

Family, friends become center.... All help all . I would pick stawberrys to feed my friend.

reply to post by awakentired


I have reached a similar point too.....the crisis keep on coming and not enough people seem to care. Perhaps the worse it gets, the closer we are to change. I believe this collective concern communicated via internet is making a difference. Crooks are starting to realize they have more eyes/attention upon them than ever before, and people can respond in greater numbers.

My challenge to those that read this statement is how can it be engineered to be fair for alll?

Everyone has to be on the same page, to begin with. Of course this sounds like one world, one culture, aka One World Government, which is a whole nother' conversation.
Personally, I am down with no borders and everyone being an equal Earthian. But only with a genuinely altruistic, TOTAL transparent, and fairly elected government. Probably too much to expect, but that's the only way I"d support the notion.

What should happen to the abusers of the old paradigm..ie rockefellers, rothchildes?

To each their own on this one. Personally, I do not wish physical harm on anyone. Hopefully justice and Karma will triumph.

Best wishes, and maybe take a break for a bit.


[edit on 1-6-2010 by speculativeoptimist]

I'm repeating what has already been said, but some of the core items required are free energy and replicator tech. Two other things I would like to add. The first, local-regional-global high speed transportation. The other aspect, and not tech based, is a social evolution of mankind. Once these other aspects are met, society has to reevaluate its priorities.

A lot of people here think that once those basic needs are met, everyone will freely pursue higher purpose and interest. I think that might take a generation or two. It will take some time for people to get use to the idea that they don't need to acquire and collect stuff, and need bigger, better, more. Likewise, society wouldn't really function well with 30 million mediocre garage bands, 50 million sports commentators and 50 million models. I think professional sports itself would have to disappear.

In Star Trek, there is a period of time that is a transition of mankind socially and at the individual level, but I think that took 200+ years. I think it took about 50 to end poverty and war, and even in Kirk's time people were insulting and fighting amongst themselves. Only in the Next Gen time frame did a seemingly ethical and altruistic paradigm exist.

The only thing I don't understand is how politics could ever evolve to fit into such a concept.

Originally posted by john124
reply to post by FredT

 

Star Trek is very incosisten and non canocal in terms of money.

I think the Ferengi are supposed to represent real-life humans.

Excellent conclusion, never really thought of that but it makes a lot of sense.

As utopian as so many seem to think Star Trek is is obviously isn't perfect. Black markets and shady deals abounds. Constant trades and services are made under the radar or outside of federation authority and they treat real alcohol like Americans treat Cuban cigars.

The federation is more like the empire from firefly than the star trek storytellers would let on.

There are plenty of groups suffering to get by under the rule of the elite "federation".

Just because the opressor spouts endless self-righteous pop-philosophical crap and smiles doesn't mean they are saviors sent from heaven.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by awakentired


I personally don't see the need for money. It's just a piece of paper manufactured by the military-industrial complex to keep you in chains and working to make you feel you 'need' to work. It's all just about programming the human mind. Most people never really get out of the loop and stay behind bars of the system. Everything should be everywhere free and for everyone. For example - free energy, like a ZPM. That would solve one piece of the monetary puzzle. The next is the general behaviour of our species, which needs to change. It's about time we put aside the old and welcomed the new. But I'm not that naive to expect a warp leap anytime soon. Hopefully though, rather sooner than later.

Our society could not exist without some sort of money or currency. There was a fictional book written many years ago about a world without money. Basically things didn't work out because nobody had any motivation to work. Whether we barter for something or use some type of currency to purchase goods, there will always be money.

It is actually quite simple. An individual contributes to society and in return they get everything they need for a comfortable, healthy existence. Of course not everyone can have everything, so non-neccesities (i.e. extraordinary luxuries) will be divied up by using some type of incentive system, kind of like saving up s&h green stamps for example.

The real problem would be in dealing with those who don't wish to contibute to society or who desire to take much more out than what they contribute. I guess you would have no choice but to cut them out of the loop and let them reside in their own little black market world.

If we switched to this ideal now, then to maintain the American standard of living throughout the world would require about 10 hrs per week of work per person. That's it. 10 hours of productive work per week and everyone in the world could have a nice home, eat healthy and have plenty of entertainment to pass the time. No more poverty and hunger.

I don't understand why we don't force a collective society such as this as it would benefit about 95% of the population.

I could be wrong but I got the impression that people got credits.
probably everyone's basic needs got provided for, shelter, food, etc. Replicator for everyone.
But depending on your personal output, you get further credits, or even a bigger house.
Work a conveinance store, get an apt and a few credits to replicate with. Captain of a starship, get many more credits and a nice house. Just like the captain gets two nice rooms and a cadet gets to bunk with someone.

Ok this is a page from memory Alpha that explains all about money in the federation:

memory-alpha.org...

I hope that this will answer your question

not much time on hand right now, so i'll cut it really short.

money isn't the enemy, folks - interest is! value can only be generated by labour, physical, intellectual or what have you, but NEVER by something that merely REPRESENTS labour (namely money). as longs as we accept that whoever has la certain amount of money automatically makes even MORE money without having to put in work to accomplish this growth, we are screwed. period.

another thing: money needs to CIRCULATE in order for an economy to flourish. interest works DIRECTLY agains this, obviously (why should i put my money back in circulation when it accumulates all by itself?)

so, in a nutshell: do away with ALL fomrs of interest, and you've com a long way already. if you're interested to learn more, i'd refer you to the works of silvio gesell - all of it written in german (my mother tongue), i'm afraid, at least all that i know of. but feel free to look around the net and see what you can dig up.

To be perfectly honest, I have always believed that we are in need of a new way of life. Something comparable to a society in Star Trek. The truth of the matter is that I really don't believe that we are ready YET. It takes years for societies to grow and change and accept their flaws which I don't think people are ready for. People can't even debate with one another without getting their 'feelings hurt'. I don't know if it's a generational thing, but I really think something needs to happen before we have this whole paradigm shift that we are craving for. It's obviously not something that happens over night, but maybe one day it will. Something drastically usually happens before a paradigm shift is initiated, a la huge asteroid killing all dinosaurs, arrival of man, etc. I am not saying 99% of people need to die in order for some change to happen, but look at the state of the world today. One big thing is the whole oil fiasco happening. I really think that this is changing people's views on how dependent we are on oil. Everyone knows it, but no one wants to actively say anything about it until it obviously goes out of control. One day I can see that we will go beyond currency because we'll realize that in order for people to survive (not the middle class/upper class), you cannot seclude people based on what they do/how much they make. Unfortunately, I don't think that we are spiritual developed enough, or whatever you want to call it, to get past that yet.