It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

If at First You Don't Succeed(with Russia)...

page: 1
5

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 31 2010 @ 08:30 PM
link   
Try, Try Again!

...but then again, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result. However this is apparently the "logic" being used by the world's financial "experts". They believe that through loans, bailouts, and stimulus packages they can keep everyone worldwide afloat, and the debt will be dealt with later. But this idea has already been tried once, and it didn't work! Anyone recall the last great Russian economic collapse, that they are still recovering from...


On March 23, 1998, five months before the Russian government's default on its international and domestic debts led to the nation's complete economic collapse, Viktor Chernomyrdin was fired as Prime Minister. The allegations of corruption against him had only reinforced the public impression that the policy of a handful of powerful Russian officials was not the construction of a free enterprise system, but rather the subversion of the public good through crony capitalism.

(emphasis mine) Is this scenario sounding familiar already? However in the western world's case, the crony capitalist system is just being continued rather than constructed. We bailed out Russia continuously throughout this period through IMF loans. Al Gore was VP at the time, and a player in the takedown of Russia. He was a partner with Chernomyrdin in the Gore-Chernomyrdin commission. They, along with a select few other elites, effectively looted the entire country. The bailouts in America were one of the greatest transfers of wealth in history. All the while, in Russia then and worldwide now, the money and the dubious optimism kept flowing...


"We have a significant opportunity to use the leverage of IMF financing to help the Russian government," Rubin wrote to then-House Speaker Newt Gingrich on July 28, 1998. "The basics are all in the right direction," Stanley Fischer, the IMF's Deputy Managing Director, said the same day. The administration successfully forced the $18 billion through Congress. The reality of the situation, however, was that the Russian economy had already begun to collapse. The stock market was plunging. The day before Rubin's letter to the Speaker of the House and the IMF's blindly upbeat assessment, the market had suffered a 9% drop. "It's looking ugly," said one Western economist on July 27. Said another Western investment strategist: "We're sitting and watching this in shock and horror."

Over the next two weeks, the deterioration continued. Finally, on August 17--one month after the latest bailout--the roof caved in.

They couldn't pay back their loans and the whole house of cards came crashing down at lightning speed. This may be the scenario we are facing here in the next few years.


The Russian government announced that it would no longer be able to pay its official debts. The ruble was devalued at the same time. The default, coupled with the devaluation of the ruble after years of promises that this would not occur, led to Russia's total economic collapse--a cataclysm by all measurements worse than America's Crash of 1929.

Russia's Road to Collapse
What was it Gerald Celente predicted for us today? The Greatest Depression. Now, however, it will be global. If Russia is any indicator, things worldwide could get very, very ugly. The average person lost 75% of their savings, and the healthcare in Russia was practically nonexistent. Food became hard to come by, banks hired guards that escorted people in, usually to tell them they had nothing left. Russia's population began falling, and has fallen over 10 million since 1998.

What is so different about the European and North American markets? Sure, there are many key differences. Russia was coming out of nearly a century of communism. Conditions started off worse than they did here before our economies began to fall apart.
Now what are the similarities? Their economy was looted by a select few elites. Their leaders were either complicit in what should be financial crimes or too incompetent or scared to stop them, and they are usually corrupt. All of our economies began falling apart and were only "saved" by bailouts, stimulus packages, and IMF loans. These loans created more debt. It is only a matter of time until a country has to come out and say, there is no way we can repay this, ever. I believe Greece was close until they extended the timeframe, but I still don't know how they will repay their debt.

So, again, the definition of insanity... You see where I'm going with this. Lets look at the possibilities for what could be happening, what will happen, and why. Possibility 1) The worlds financial leaders have no idea what to do, and they really rely on keynesian economics and fractional reserve banking alone for economic stability. The world economies will implode and probably wars will be started in an effort to create a boom cycle. (Wars are used for economic reasons, see the resigned German president's remarks). This scenario means that we are in for a horrible collapse and possible world war. This scenario also assumes that this was not planned.
2) Russia was a test run for an engineered global meltdown. This scenario has been planned or planned for. It will be used to bring about a global financial government, leading to a global energy government, leading to a global political government. All countries that have been brought to their knees by fractional reserve banking will be offered a 'get out of debt free' solution. This solution involves a new paperless currency that will be put in countries that accept it worldwide. Their debts will be paid or written off by the IMF and world bank, which will manage this new global economic union. Its all fiat anyway, so lets just write it off. Countries will be so desperate they will have to give in to this union. The ones that do not will fall completely into ruin. This new system will not trade with holdout countries who will then be forced to join in later.

These two scenarios are speculative, but I believe they will come to be true to some degree. A crash is imminent. Expect to see elites getting richer and more powerful. Anyways, what do you think will happen? Do you think this is an accurate summary of the global economy now compared to Russia then, or have I missed any major factors?

[edit on 31-5-2010 by time91]

[edit on 31-5-2010 by time91]




posted on May, 31 2010 @ 09:14 PM
link   
I'm bumping this back to the top because I think it is important that we discuss the fact that everything going on has been tried before. It failed in Russia. I would also like to discuss whether or not Russia was just a test run for a global meltdown scenario that could be another problem-reaction-solution.

Edit to add: Bueller...Bueller...Bueller...anyone...anyone...anyone?

[edit on 31-5-2010 by time91]



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 10:27 PM
link   
Many of my friends, whom are from eastern eupore, and even russia have stated, living under the communism there lives were much better, everyone was happier, they had jobs, nice houses and cars



And whom said there were no church's under communism? many of my friends whom lived in the 1980s said they went to churches everyday was like a normal day without any problems.



Even soviet off duty soldiers enjoyed themselves.


Again this proves, the american way or atleast the capitalism is an utter failed experiment.

Not to mention many of great imports were coming from north america, the only side effect of the communism was the mail delivering system, you cant mail to other nations unless there soviet or are russian allies.

Good thread op, s&f for ya




[edit on 31-5-2010 by Agent_USA_Supporter]



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 10:30 PM
link   
reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter
 


They certainly had a better life under communism than capitalism (or whatever system you call what they had after the USSR collapsed), but our markets are about to be looted like theirs were, it has already begun. Do you think we will still support capitalism after that? Remember there was an upswing in socialist/communist sentiment during the great depression.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:27 PM
link   
reply to post by time91
 



It is a nice OP. Good job.


In Texas there is, and has been, talk about breaking the treaty which has us in the Union. We are a Republic, in and of ourselves, and contain all the natural resources needed to maintain our own, with our own.

If your scenario 2 happens, Texas had better be the last bastion of free men, or i will be dead already. Live free, or die trying.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:38 PM
link   
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Ironically, some of our leaders who have put in legislation towards unifying North America were known to say "Don't mess with Texas". If Texas does secede if the SHTF, I will hastily move there. I'm just a little bit north, shouldn't be to hard to do.
Although realistically we wouldn't stand a chance.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by time91
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Ironically, some of our leaders who have put in legislation towards unifying North America were known to say "Don't mess with Texas". If Texas does secede if the SHTF, I will hastily move there. I'm just a little bit north, shouldn't be to hard to do.
Although realistically we wouldn't stand a chance.


Neither did Davy Crockett.
But he laid his life down for freedom. I expect no less from myself, nor my fellow Texans.

edit to add: the elitists in DC. like most areas, do not reflect the personalities or values of their constituents. if they did, we wouldn't be in this whole predicament to begin with. I would normally put a smiley in here....but crying is a more appropriate emotive.

[edit on 31-5-2010 by bigfatfurrytexan]



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 02:18 AM
link   
Sadly, it all can be attributed to a simple thing.. Greed.

If there were not greedy people at the top, and the ever-greedy people grabbing what ever they could, at every single oppertuneity, we wouldn't be in this mess.

The greedy at the top want more, and more. Where as people at the bottom tend to dream of great big homes and fancy cars, but in all honesty, would just be happy if they could maintain what they have, pay their bills, and pursue their lives and such.

I notice that here in America, we are driven by what our friends have. Granted that new iphone is pretty sweet, I can't afford one, but hey.. I'm also content with my plain 'ol outdated cell. Now, does the iphone need to cost $500... probably not.

Corporate greed, personal greed, government greed.. Be it power, money, holdings, property, etc. it all perpetuates a cycle that will fail.

Sadly, it's not really the governments that suffer, but the people under the boots, in the towns, cities, and suburbs that tend to bear the weight of it all.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 07:17 AM
link   
reply to post by Cygnis
 


Couldn't agree with you more, Cygnis. Greed is a diesease that nearly everyone falls victim to. From the "lower" class to the "elites". Whats sad is that a few of the oligarchs of europe and America came like vultures to Russia, and made off with millions. Along with Russia's own leaders of course. Which begs the question, what is going to stop it from happening here?



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 12:16 PM
link   
reply to post by time91
 


Yea, how to prevent it from happening is the key question.

unfortunately since everyone at the top seems rather corrupt beyond all reprisal, I can really see no other option but removing them all, and starting over with other people.

Then set in place a series of checks and balances that have no loop-holes to keep those people in such places held to such a degree of honestly that it becomes nay impossible for them to leech money from the systems.

Seems we'd have to do away with the "gambling" markets tho.. more commonly known as the stock exchange.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 09:05 PM
link   
reply to post by Cygnis
 


I don't think it will ever be solved permanently. The cycle of civilization seems to be rising out of darkness, then being led by great men, followed by the golden age, followed by decay, corruption, and decadence, then a collapse. IMO America is not only the "new atlantis", it is also the new Rome. We have gone from a republic to a so-called "democracy", to an empire. We are like Italy to the Roman empire.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by time91]



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 10:21 PM
link   
reply to post by time91
 


Oh, I quite remember this. In the late 90's CNN reported about how Russian soldiers were either planting potatoes to have something to eat or practising dance moves because they just applied to be strippers. I can still remember those boys. It was really sad watching that.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 10:41 PM
link   
reply to post by eldard
 


Haha yeah, I don't really remember it but I've been reading up on it. The same thing we are doing now here, failed in Russia. So why are we trying it again? Unless they intend to destroy the world economy, or, they believe this is somehow different. I don't believe that for a second, though.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 05:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by time91
reply to post by Cygnis
 


I don't think it will ever be solved permanently. The cycle of civilization seems to be rising out of darkness, then being led by great men, followed by the golden age, followed by decay, corruption, and decadence, then a collapse. IMO America is not only the "new atlantis", it is also the new Rome. We have gone from a republic to a so-called "democracy", to an empire. We are like Italy to the Roman empire.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by time91]


if my history serves me correctly, both of those, Atlantis and Rome ended badly according to the history books.

Makes me seriously question where we are heading and wondering how long until the breaks are applied full force by the people, or the world ends.

/gulp



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 11:15 PM
link   
reply to post by Cygnis
 


I don't know if the world will end, I doubt it. But the empire will have to go into hiding again and then re-emerge in a different form. Times will be bad for a while though. It would be wise to prepare.



new topics

top topics



 
5

log in

join