Fire Breathing Dragons

Many cultures have fire breathing dragons. China is perhaps the best know, but European knights also did battle with them. So how does such a strange creature come to being in such diverse areas and cultures? Perhaps they were real!
I would like to advance a theror for you to consider.
There were many dinosaurs that had many large nasal cavities. Here is one good site among many that show the nasal areas of several species.
www.oucom.ohiou.edu...
Second I would like you to consider the bombardier beetle. This little fellow mixes two chemicals (hydrogen peroxide and hydroquinone) and uses a special ‘inhibitor’ chemical to keep the mixture from reacting. Even more amazing, he had specially designed combustion tubes with two enzymes called catalase and peroxidase which make chemical reactions go millions of times faster.
He can shoot fire. Enough to cause a blister to form!
Check out the little guy in action: www.youtube.com...
Now, suppose those hugh sinus cavities weren't just for breathing or lightening the weight of the head.
I don't believe that dinosaurs were prehuman. Read this passage from the book of Job, chapter 41:
19Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.

20Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.

21His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.
If fire breathing dragons were "Airhead" dinosaurs, then their presence in many cultures isn't difficult to understand. They were just such "fantastic" beasts, they became legend instead of history.

I find the concept of breathing fire both implausible and irrational.

Sounds interesting to me. I would love to see more research done on this!

That beetle is the most insane thing I've ever seen. SnF, Op. That beetle sprays himself in the face lol . How could he be immune from the "caustic" stuff he's spraying that kills other life forms around him? I mean he just coats himself with that stuff while he's spraying it out.
I like this thread. Then again, I'm a dragon ( chinese astrology dragon, not the shapeshifting kind )

I have seen the theory that dragons were dinosaurs (i.e. people found dinosaur bones and explained them as dragons) on TV. They also said that the large nasal and sinus cavities were an extremely sensitive sense of smell for some or were used to produce sound, possibly even low-frequency sounds for communication such as elephants use. Your theory is an alternative possibility, but I have one question for you:

If humans and dinosaurs were contemporary, why have there *never* been any human or humanoid bones found with dinosaur bones or at the same (geological) levels as dinosaur bones?

Perhaps someone could clarify this, but I thought the Chinese dragons were more associated with the element of water, not fire...?

reply to post by hhott


If you want the truth, you might want to research this yourself. Do not believe everything that scientists state as "fact".

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel

I find the concept of breathing fire both implausible and irrational.

I find the concept of an animal emitting electric shocks both implausible and irrational. And the concept of a creature changing its color to match it's environment is totally ridiculous. You might as well suggest that a lizard might squirt blood from its eyes to scare off attackers.

Total nonsense. Who comes up with this stuff? Obviously there's no way anything like that could be real.

I have to admit, I loved the Bombardier beetle. I had to watch a few more on youtube to satisfy my curiosity for these little explosive chemical warfare agents of nature.

As for fire breathing dragons? Need proof, not mythology.

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
I find the concept of breathing fire both implausible and irrational.

You must not be married.

I'm not saying that they are real, but I saw a docudrama a few years ago that covered how they could have evolved, how they could have breathed fire ect, it was called the last dragon or a dragon's world.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by hhott


Hhot, I need to get off to work, but here is a bit of interesting info. I will elaborate on it more this evening.
■~95% of all fossils are shallow marine organisms, such as corals and shellfish.
■~95% of the remaining 5% are algae and plants.
■~95% of the remaining 0.25% are invertebrates, including insects.
■The remaining 0.0125% are vertebrates, mostly fish. (95% of land vertebrates consist of less than one bone, and 95% of mammal fossils are from the Ice Age.)
Fossil formation requires three things, sudden death, fast covering of the creature, and pressure. If something just dies, it rots and bacteria dispose of it. Most humans are buried in groups. Animals tend to die alone and are purged. Covering something as large as a dinosaur then applying pressure is puzzling. What event caused that? That's another discussion.
There have been footprints found together. One place in Texas and another in Turkmanistan. I will add references this evening. Later...

Dinosaurs and humans have not been found in the same rock layers nor rock layers even close in age. Over 55 million of years separates the two.

There is a state park in Texas where dinosaur prints can be located.
Dinosaur Valley State Park
There was a case of vandalism some years back when some creationists destroyed a number of dinosaur prints by chiseling perfect toes onto the skid mark of the heel of a small bipedal dinosaur. Fortunately, the prints had been recorded before the vandalism.

Creationists eventually purchased nearby land and started to excavate the rock strata looking for human and dinosaur prints together. They never reported such a find.

Better images of the park are available at this link.
Dinosaur Valley State Park

dragonsmusic,
I don't think he sprays it on himself. He has better aim. Just the part where the spray comes can withstand the high heat.

wagtail,
There are two types of dragons.
The Chinese type was a water animal. He was thougth of as good luck, and strength. He was serpentine, but had 4 legs. Chinese dragons seem to have two feelers on their nose. They have a definate dorsal ridge or fin on the spine as fo many fish.
The European types were more aggressive. They also have legs, but are often depicted with wings. This would confirm the link between reptiles and birds.

It's difficult to prove that these animals lived. Of course in a few thousand years many creatures might be moved to mythical too.
Although we don't have any bones, we do have some interesting art from both historic and prehistoric times that show the reality of dragons.
www.genesispark.org...

Originally posted by zachi
reply to post by hhott

 

Fossil formation requires three things, sudden death, fast covering of the creature, and pressure. If something just dies, it rots and bacteria dispose of it. Most humans are buried in groups. Animals tend to die alone and are purged.

I'm puzzled. Your statistics and rationale would seem to argue that it is *more* likely for humans to be found, if they were around at the same time as the dinosaurs, rather than the opposite.

But here's another point to consider. Dinosaurs were big, mean, fast, and some of them were smart (based on the evidence we have). In their time they ruled and overran the planet, although not quite to the extent that we humans do today.

In that time, mammals were small rodent-like animals and, relatively speaking, there weren't very many of them. Science tells us that a great extinction event got rid of most of the dinosaurs and made way for the mammals to increase their population, get bigger, and evolve. This theory would seem to support the idea that humans .. the theoretical or supposed pinnacle of mammal evolution .. could not have been contemporary with dinosaurs.

If that is not so, then how did the puny little mammals manage to grow, evolve, and populate the earth in competition with all those big, mean, nasty, dinosaurs?

Covering something as large as a dinosaur then applying pressure is puzzling. What event caused that? That's another discussion.

1) Flash floods and silt coverage. Water and silt are both very heavy.
2) The famous (infamous?) tar pits, sinkholes, swamps, etc.
3) Volcanic activity.
4) Snow/ice storms and subsequent glacier activity.


[edit on 1-6-2010 by hhott]

Many years ago us kids in school were under the impression that the caveman lived with the dinosaur. Popular teachings and association of the two within common educational materials often taught that there were humans during the periods of dinosaurs. I guess that the mainstream science clique figured they had to change their timelines if everything else was to fit into what they created. personally, I do not believe what we have been taught about our human history as there are too many discrepencys within what many believe.

[edit on 6/2/2010 by mikelee]

reply to post by hhott


Only .0125% of fossils are mammals and mostly only a single bone is found of each. Humans are buried, but graves lack the pressure to fossilize remains. There are a few places where the earth itself creates mummies, but that is rare. There are local events that can produce fossils. I don't think volcanoes or ice storms can do that. The temperature require to fast freeze a wooly mammoth is astonishing.

I have many doubts about the evolutionary theory. I know that many are adamant about it, but there are discrepancies that make me less than confident in it.

My area is overrun with lizards, they are just smaller. I don't consider them tasty morsels, although my chickens have a different opinion and are pretty fast.

Since there are many drawings from ancient times and many folks tales, people living with dragons (dinosaurs) doesn't seem impossible to me.

reply to post by zachi

Although we don't have any bones, we do have some interesting art from both historic and prehistoric times that show the reality of dragons.

The genesis park web page that shows so-called dinosaur images has a number of fakes on there. I will go over a few of the fakes.

1) About a third of the way down is a petroglyph of what is shown to be a dinosaur with a long tail. This "brontosaurus" is a fake. Notice that the tail hangs down and drags. Notice the smile on the face. This is a fake. It is a well known fake. Dinosaurs did not drag their tails. We know that today, because we among other issues we know that sauropods did not drag their tails.

2) A little below that we have a drawing of horned lizards. It's supposed to be a dinosaur. Give me a break.

The Havasupai petroglyph is supposed to be a dinosaur. Not only that but it suggests that it is a perspective drawing. How odd considering that the other images are profiles of animals. Did you know that petroglyphs show antelope with 3 horns?

3) Just below that we have the so-called stegosaurus image. Notice how the tail hangs down. Notice that the head is quite large. Do you see any spikes onthe tail? It's a rhino in front of a stylized bush.

If we want to believe that what is mostly Rorscach blotches as being dinosaurs, then certainly we must believe all of the well preserved and clear images of lions with human heads as being real.



Just because people can image and draw imaginary creatures does not mean that the creatures are real.

The percentage of fossils being mammals has no relevance. That's the sort of straw man argument used by creationists. It's meaningless. I cannot belief that number. I think it is much too high. I've seen entire mountain ranges such as the Glass Mountains that do not contain a single mammal fossil. The number is as high as it is simply because because that may be what is cataloged in some museum.

Pressure is not a requirement for fossilization. Deep burial does create pressure, but that is not a requirement.

There are local events that can produce fossils. I don't think volcanoes or ice storms can do that.

Some of the best fossilizations occur with volcanic ash. The ash is small particles that travel through the air. The fall through waters and suffocate everything. The small particles mean that even the fine details of the bodies are preserved. Continued ash falls seals off the dead from the oxygen above and beautiful fossils are formed that capture the life in the water - sort of a snapshot of what was there. Land animals are suffocated and preserved in places where the ash accumulates and does not wash off the land.

Laetoli footprints

3.6 million years ago in Laetoli, Tanzania, two early humans walked through wet volcanic ash. When the nearby volcano erupted again, subsequent layers of ash covered and preserved the oldest known footprints of early humans.

reply to post by stereologist


I can see that you are staunch evolutionist. Science has gotten things wrong in the past and evolution just changed from uniformitarianism to include the sudden rise of species to accomodate new findings.
Here is something that doesn't fit at all. Perhaps science will change again to accomodate it.
The Nile Mosaic of Palestrina depicts Nile scenes from Egypt all the way to Ethiopia. One scene show an animal that looks like a dinosaur. Take a peak. www.s8int.com...
There are other artifacts and even carcasses that can be found on the site. Please consider the site w/o prejudice. I know it's a creation based site, so your first urge might be to debunk it. I am not trying to change you into being a creationist, only to add a little info that's outside of the box. Roam the site and see what you think.
I wish that I could post a picture, but I can't log into media. I don't know why. I have in the past.