reply to post by kallisti36
I appreciate the derisive "dont get me started with Talmud or Kabbalah". Im sure you know much about it.
Let me explain something that many of the orthodox mainstreeam christians dont seem to comphrehend. All religious texts are allegorical/mystical in
nature. It is the nature of this world that the spiritual is spoken of through the medium of symbol. Thus, the books of the Bible are all
Also, another seldom understand thing about Judaism is the prominence and centality of the Torah. The entire revelation at Sinai and the giving of the
Torah constitute the essence of Judaism. The "Talmud" which included the Mishna and Midrashim is the written codification of the Oral Torah. At the
time that it was put into writing, the Rabbinic leaders (and this is history) were being hunted down by the Roman Empire. The christians have never
faced oppression as ferocious as Titus and Hadrians persecution of the Jews circa 30 - 250 CE. 650,000 Jews were killed in this period. Judaisms
greatest leaders were being sought after by the legions of the most "greek" of emperors, Hadrian (thus is was apt that it was he who sought to
exterminate them). The Talmud records the murder of the '10 martyrs' the ten rabbinic leaders who were publically executed with the greatest of
them, rabbi Akiba being a very gory one. Thus, the Oral Torah needed to be expanded upon in Writing. Again, Just like the Torah, Neviyim and Ketuvim,
the Talmud, Mishna and Midrashim are highly allegorical. All Rabbinic writings are written in this manner which is why im so amused by people who give
a casual 'study' of it (not easy by any means - The Talmud constitutes some 80 volumes of work - never mind the Mishna, commentaries etc) and than
thihkn their now qualified to criticize it,.
So, firstly, the Talmud and Oral Tradition of Judaism is completely legitimate. Anyone who has properly studied Kabbalah - and not kabbalah center or
gnostic/hermetic corruptions understand that Kabbala is the cornerstone of Judaism. It simply means "recieved" and it refers to that Sod - secret
level of Torah that only the sages and most learned of the people are initiated into.
Back again to my original point though. Torah is the centerpiece of Judaism. The Jews have believed since its giving (and im not Jewish, mind you)
that the Torah is the blueprint of all reality. The other biblical books although divinely inspired are not in the same category of the Torah. They
simply serve to enforce the Torah and warn people of the consequences of not doing so.
My issue with Christianity is its complete futility. I understand that Christians have a very Jewish ethos and i respect Christianity and Christians.
I just cant logically see the purpose of its trinitarian philosophy or the idea of an intermediary.
In simple psychological terms, an intermediary is a construct that is placed between yourself and the object. Obviously all christians believe in G-d
and love G-d. But their devotion is also directed towards "jesus" or at other times, towards saints. The idea of moshiach in Judaism was NEVER about
G-d incarnating into man. This first of all is a notorious pagan idea - dionysus, perseus, apollo, krishna, horus, among others were born through 'a
virgin' birth. Moshiach symbolized the collective soul. In the word moshiach itself is Moshe. Moshiachs soul purpose was in motivating and impelling
others towards the service of G-d. In some highly mystical way, moshiach has the ability to awaken the spiritual core of all people to lead them
towards G-d. The one G-d. Moshiach, G-d frobid, is NEVER and has never been thought of as an intermediary. The thoguht initself is anathema to me and
all understanding monotheists. G-d alone is to be our focus. G-d alone, the omni present and all knowing is available to any person at any time and
there is absolutely no logical need for the concept of Christ. So.. I really dont see the justification in the belief.
G-d is there for everyone.. When i pray, i pray to HaShem. I dont need any 'spiritual or psychological' intermediary to lessen his brilliance for my
mind. He comes and helps and guides me and all people are capable of this sort of relationship.
So atleast you can understand because there really isnt even a spiritual Need for "jesus christ" you can see why i see it as a gnostic/pagan
construction. At the core of the Christian tradition is a hybrid between Greek/Pagan ideas and Judaism. Theres an incredible emphasis on G-d mercy -
as if Torah and Judaism wasnt merciful. That is the issue. The pagan aristocratic leaders of the nations have a very antinomian and belligerant
attitude towards the Jews and they have for thousands of years. Their beliefs are built around the concept of the 'self' -who at the same time is
identified with G-d. This is the 3 in 1 idea. The ego, the self and G-d are one. Im not saying this is a universal christian idea cause i know it
isnt, but there are those who conflate the self with G-d.
It is true that there is an essential spark within each person which is at one with G-d, but Judaism teaches that we are all 'children' and
'servants' of G-d. We are built in his IMAGE - not him, but his image, which refers to the Sefirot (spiritual attributes of creation).G-d is
infinite and beyond all comprehension. The point of the torah the sole purpose of Judaism is to inform mankind that there is a G-d and it is incumbent
upon everyone of us to humble ourselves in order to build a relationship with him. Were put in this world in order for us to know him.
Again, im not trying to insult christians but i do feel i have a right to proffer this idea which to me considering the earlier agrgression of the
Greeks Romans towards the Jews make perfect sense. The greeks and romans were the ones who 'created' christianity. They even made way for the growth
of christendom by wiping out the Jewish populations in Judea. The evidence clearly shows that the PTB - the great powers of Pagan Rome devised a
clever mechanism to both suppress and usurp the influence of Judaism. Christianity is the "bastard" offspring in that they took so much from the
pagan greeks/egyptians/babylonians and also much from zoroastrianism (undoubtedly the inner meaning of the 3 gifts of the persian magi) and yet
simultaneously giving the impression that their tradition was the 'fullfilment' of Judaism. In truth, the real 'dad', the driving esoteric
influence behind Christianity has been Hellenistic paganism. Though this is not known or understood by people because that would require a)
understanding of Judaism - which people do not have (they usually just get vituperations of it) and an understanding of pre-christian pagan theology.
As can be gleamed from texts like Hesiods Theogany, Homers Illiad, and many other Egyptian,Babylonian and Zoroastrian texts.