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Originally posted by DrMattMaddix
Juan McCain was born in Panama on a military base, ergo, on American soil... As is LEGALLY declared in many documents.
New Hampshire resident Fred Hollander, who has filed a suit in U.S. District Court claiming that the Republican candidate is "not a natural born citizen." In an attempt to prove his argument, the 49-year-old computer programmer filed a subpoena last month seeking McCain's birth certificate.
The Department of Homeland Security, which oversees citizenship services, declined to hand over copies of the document, saying the subpoena was improperly served.
There is no record of McCain's birth in the bound birth registers of the Panama Canal Zone Health Department, which are available for public inspection at the National Archives in College Park, Md. Here is a sample page from the August 1936 birth register.
The argument is very strong against McCain being regarded a "natural-born citizen" as required by law. He was born in Panama in 1936, at a time when the State Department and the Hay-Bunau Treaty, which granted the U.S. access to the Panama Canal Zone, specifically stated that the Canal Zone was not sovereign U.S. territory.
Manning graduated from The College of New Rochelle with a Bachelor of Arts degree and continued on to Union Theological Seminary in the City of New York where he was awarded a Master of Divinity.[6] Manning also holds a Doctor of Philosophy degree from his own ATLAH Theological Seminary, an unaccredited educational institution
Some institutions (for example, some Bible colleges and seminaries) choose not to participate in the accreditation process because they view it as an infringement of their religious, academic, or political freedom.
UNACCREDITED INSTITUTIONS
Unaccredited institutions are not reviewed against a set of standards to determine the quality of their education and training. This does not necessarily mean that an unaccredited institution is of poor quality, but earning a degree from an unaccredited institution may create problems for students. Some employers, institutions, and licensing boards only recognize degrees earned from institutions accredited by an accrediting agency recognized by the U.S. Department of Education. With this in mind, it is recommended that students check with other institutions regarding the transfer of credit policy to determine if that institution would accept the degree and/or credits earned from any institution they plan to enroll in.
Originally posted by K J Gunderson
Obama is a shady shady man with lots of secrets and that is bad.
Manning is a liar who made himself a fake doctor. Let's see if he can find the truth for us.
Keep fooling yourselves into believing you are looking for any kind of TRUTH!
Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by sos37
I can take that one.
No, it's not the "tried mantra".
It's the tired and exceedingly stupid rhetoric of the Obama hater.
You always cite the "all or nothing" argument! Either ALL disagreement with Obama is racist, or NONE of the disagreement with Obama is racist. FACT IS, some of it is racist! If you can't understand that, God help you. If you PRETEND that's not true, well, then you are just another liar!
Clear now?
Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by sos37
BS. It DOESN't come down to insinuating racism.
That's just Beck, Repub, Tea Party type cliched answer.
Look at ATS! Most here claim that racism doesn't exist! Blacks are the racists!
Whenever I hear this kind of nonsense, my Spidey sense tells me they ARE probably racist! Otherwise, why the BS! Seldom do I hear a rational disagreement with Obama. Usually it's the kind of utter idiocy, oh, I don't know, LIKE IN THIS RIDICULOUS TRIAL! Not policy, it's "he's Kenyan'Muslim/Communist/antichrist and hates America.
not too impressive!
Originally posted by OldDragger
Whenever I hear this kind of nonsense, my Spidey sense tells me they ARE probably racist! Otherwise, why the BS! Seldom do I hear a rational disagreement with Obama. Usually it's the kind of utter idiocy, oh, I don't know, LIKE IN THIS RIDICULOUS TRIAL!
Originally posted by Ahabstar
reply to post by K J Gunderson
A very good example of attacking the messenger and not the message.
Look to above posts discussing the Selective Service card and FOIA reports with their discrepancies. Notice that not only did I bother to find links, I summarized highlights so you would not have to read them. But by all means, follow the links and read them.
And while you are doing that, look at that post carefully. Do I say that I think Obama is guilty of conspiracy to commit fraud. No, I do not. I don't even claim Obama is guilty of anything. I just reported on the topic. and submitted opinion on what seemed like interesting points that merit further investigation.
No, I do not have the time nor financial resources to track down all the varied bits of information. Nor do I care to do so if I did. However while you like to make bold statements of character references of people that you haven't met, I submit the following from wikipedia
Manning graduated from The College of New Rochelle with a Bachelor of Arts degree and continued on to Union Theological Seminary in the City of New York where he was awarded a Master of Divinity.[6] Manning also holds a Doctor of Philosophy degree from his own ATLAH Theological Seminary, an unaccredited educational institution
Since the doctorate is from an uncredited educational institution. Lets look at that for a scale of value. Again wikipedia for ease.
Some institutions (for example, some Bible colleges and seminaries) choose not to participate in the accreditation process because they view it as an infringement of their religious, academic, or political freedom.
And from US Dept. of Education
UNACCREDITED INSTITUTIONS
Unaccredited institutions are not reviewed against a set of standards to determine the quality of their education and training. This does not necessarily mean that an unaccredited institution is of poor quality, but earning a degree from an unaccredited institution may create problems for students. Some employers, institutions, and licensing boards only recognize degrees earned from institutions accredited by an accrediting agency recognized by the U.S. Department of Education. With this in mind, it is recommended that students check with other institutions regarding the transfer of credit policy to determine if that institution would accept the degree and/or credits earned from any institution they plan to enroll in.
So at best, Manning has an honorary doctorate. Some notable people that hold honorary doctorates include Ben Franklin, Maya Angelou, Billy Graham and Hunter S. Thompson. All of whom use(d) the title Dr., frequently and regularly. Thompson's was issued by an unaccredited seminary.
Originally posted by sos37
You forgot to call Manning a racist, even though he is black. Using your limited logic, however, he MUST be a racist because he opposed the man that YOU voted for, right?
In fact, anyone that opposes the man YOU voted for is a racist or is full of crap. Isn't that the tired mantra of the party you support?
Originally posted by centurion1211
You mean that we would not be able to find a single person that recalled you ever being in a class, a dorm, a game, nothing at the college you attended?
If so, then we would have to stop believing anything you said, just like obama.
Wait, that's already happening ...
Originally posted by Ahabstar
reply to post by K J Gunderson
I guess when you are done discussing either myself or Manning then maybe you will have time to look at what was presented.
Until that time, I guess we will have to contend with your campaign of discrediting people as opposed to information.
As for Obama, why was his first order of business to create an executive order that make only records he deemed available to the public to be available?
That goes for not just his records but former president's as well, despite whatever protest or reason for them to remain sealed.
Did that seal his birth record and college records, no. But it does prevent them from becoming public by having the means to exchange their non-disclosure in exchange for other items remaining non-disclosed.
So the questions at hand that this so called trial brought out:
Was Obama born in Hawaii? Unknown, but possible.
Diid Obama attend Columbia? Looks like maybe not.
Is Obama's Selective Service records legitimate? Possible, but maybe not.
Would the Selective Service records end his presidency if fake? Yes, provided he had not registered by his 26th birthday which would be August 4, 1987.