Why the HELL are you NOT a REAL Libertarian?

I don't care much about the meaning of words, only their communication.

Don't you think that if the Libertarianword keeps loosing its Socialist meaning every time it moves towards the English language, that that's a sign Socialism isn't as popular in Britain and America (and hence these countries high GDP compared with Europe's, almost countless experiments, with socialism
Personally I'll always be a Right wing, Libertarian. I sympathise with most, left wing objectives, it's just that I believe a low tax, (functionally) democratic, capitalist, social, society delivers them much better!!

Workers owning the means of production sounds a good idea; that is until you factor in histories demonstrations of both corruption and bureaucracy! One problem is that workers (like Unions that strike) see things in the short term, and will therefore (given the choice) turn down, long-term investment, in favour of greater profits.

A private business with these problems (will ultimately) go bust, the moment a more efficient business, has spotted how much better, its cheaper services can sell.

In nature most parasites don't try to actually run their hosts brain! Governments should do the same, and just be content, sucking the cash of business (without actually killing it's host -making it sick).
But it is better that democracy decides how busineses should treat their workers, than it is for government to continue to allow Unions to legally strike. Thatcher was their result. They are the real killers of British steel, ships, electricty, phone, airways and (perhaps) coal (although the Victorians dug the best stuff up).

Originally posted by Liberal1984
Workers owning the means of production sounds a good idea; that is until you factor in histories demonstrations of both corruption and bureaucracy! One problem is that workers (like Unions that strike) see things in the short term, and will therefore (given the choice) turn down, long-term investment, in favour of greater profits.

A private business with these problems (will ultimately) go bust, the moment a more efficient business, has spotted how much better, its cheaper services can sell.

Hmmmmm that is not necessarily true, in fact it's not even close to true.

Corruption and bureaucracy, when have the workers had a monopoly on that?

Workers see things in the short term? Can you name me one private corporation that doesn't operate on short term profits?

The idea of competition dictating cost and quality and solving market problems is an illusion when corporations buy out smaller companies, and your choice becomes not which company the product comes from but it's label name. If capitalism is allowed to go to it's ultimate conclusion ONE person will own everything. Your model of the market would work if we were all business owners, but were not, we don't have a system of independent small businesses we have massive corporations and distributors who monopolize the market.

You don't give the workers enough credit, we are quite capable of understanding long term goals, unlike the capitalists who's only concern is for their own bank account, we also realise that the community is a part of us and we a part of it.

Unions have been crippled by those with the power, don't blame the workers for wanting to have representation. Unions are a necessity in a system that has no consideration for people, only short term profits, and workers have no power to redress problems with management.
Do you really want to deny people representation against powerful entities? Well never mind you've already admitted to being right wing...(did America not learn anything from the Nazis?)
If it wasn't for unions then we would still be working in sweat shop for pennies an hour, kinda like in China (where is the socialism there?).
Of course that benefits the capitalist, but where does it leave the rest of us? We can't all be capitalists, we can't all privately own our means of production, the only fair way is to make the means of production worker owned. That way decisions will be made for the benefit of all, not just the private owner.

You do realise that in a socialist society unions wouldn't be needed?
A lot of things blamed on socialism are just reactions to capitalism in an attempt to balance the system.