why do they make bills and laws so hard to read, its like they dont want us to understand them

The way i look at it, europe had all these immigration laws, and the ptb did not care here either.

Really is it so bad that a country of immigrants which you are open yourself up to others a little more? Whats the problem there, can no one else have a bit of the pie?

Americans are being hypocrites, and we do not need to read the law. Everyone breaks the law everyday in the western world and thats a fact for most people. The law only matters when the police choose to enforce it, that is why they are called law enforcement, not the people who stop crime.

Originally posted by andy1033
The way i look at it, europe had all these immigration laws, and the ptb did not care here either.

Really is it so bad that a country of immigrants which you are open yourself up to others a little more? Whats the problem there, can no one else have a bit of the pie?

Americans are being hypocrites, and we do not need to read the law. Everyone breaks the law everyday in the western world and thats a fact for most people. The law only matters when the police choose to enforce it, that is why they are called law enforcement, not the people who stop crime.

The Real Only Reason You Don't Want To Read The Law Is Because,,,,
It Would Take All The Wind Out Of Your Sails. It is not racist, you'd have to back pedal on that lie being spread and it does not pick out only brown skinned people to harass on the street while they walk their kids to school. So, there again you'd have to rethink your lies you like to spread.
In other words, Take Your Open Boarder Crap back to California and those other misguided states and cities like Austin, TX. and cry yourself to sleep.
Oh, Yes, Please continue to boycott Arizona. We like the attention and we are losing a few illegals to your part of the country every day. How do I know, My neighbor next door to me, has been out of work for 5 months, he does dry-wall install and a plumber.
He was called back to work at a living wage, his boss actually apologize to him in person, told him of horror stories of having to rework jobs not done correctly the first or second time because he hired cheaper laborers to do the jobs.
Please explain to me or show me how I am breaking the law every day.
If I were, I would be in big trouble as I still to this day hold a top secert and tkg and crypto clearance from my Federal Goverment Job of 30 plus years and i was never read off and I am still called on to this day.
So BITE ME!


[edit on 14-5-2010 by guohua]

I heard the Arizona immigration bill referred to as the 'papers please' law, yet when I began school this fall (I'm in a graduate professional program) and I heard about the name tag policy/rule (it's actually a plastic badge with a computer chip in it) I looked at my friend and said "Papers please". So it's already here, in 'friendly' environments.

Homegrown terrorism: now, in 2010 it is pseudo-Middle Eastern Islam radicals. The 9/11/01 'incident' catalyzed the anti-Muslim movement we still experience (ie. backlash to the building of a mosque 2 blocks from 'ground zero'). The law(s) are here, in print, guiding legislation and judicial decisions now as we speak, and being used to teach law in universities now.

Homegrown terrorism: let us say in 2030, what will it be? Anti-Muslim movement will be dead, but HGT will be be in the books, PDF files, etc, and Americans will be acclimated to the concept. Also, technology will be much 'better' (some say worse), but better in the context of capabilities. Can anyone say thought crimes? Face watching? Personality profiling?

I don't know what life will be like in the USA, but I currently live in a progressive state funded college university town which I think sheds some light. Every week, especially after I haven't been to one part of the city in a while I notice more cameras. People walk around like pathetic zombies scared to look at anything besides their feet when they walk. Whether at gas stations, electric company, school, there are always men with 'evil' faces. These guys are huge and they always wear black and dark blue clothing. If it rains or they need to be outside, they always wear those neon-yellow jackets. I know these exist everywhere, but in my city they are highly prevalent. They patrol in groups, and if students don't wear their name tag (issued by the security office on campus) we are escorted out of school (and believe me they're serious, it happened to a class vice president).

A surprising lack of comments so far.
Does this mean nobody will take up the challenge?
Will there be an end to criticism of the law now?
This is a "put up or shut up" moment here. Don't reject it until you have read it. And if you support it, read it so you can argue your point more effectively.
And vice versa.

There will be no debate here, as the nay-sayers to said law are goin off of emotional reactions to such a "bold" law. When in fact this AZ law was just the states enforcement of a FEDERAL law, that the feds have turned a blind eye to enforcing....like so many "for the people" laws.

I've said it before, and ill say it again, when th federal gov fails to do what its tasked to do in the interest of the people, the states are to take over....if the states fail...citizens must take over until from the masses, state and federal reps can be selected.

Wait what is it I always hear?


Oh yeah. You know they will make up BS to pull someone over just because they are “driving mexican”. We all know cops abuse the laws and other such claims.


Sorry I would give some other examples but they all tend to run together.


Me personally, I hope other states pick up the same card AZ did.


Raist

John McCain was doing best the other day to try and explain the law on Sirius and asking people to read it, so they don't get the "View" version of reality.

The bottom line is, this should really open up the discusion on how utterly useless your Federal government is on dealing with real life issues. That is the story here--20 years of dithering by self-serving "bring home the bacon" hypocrites in Washington.

And the federal law doesn't target just mexi-hispanics, though they are portrayed as crying foul the most over this state elected undertaking of a federal law. The law targets anyone here in the US with no intention or understanding of how to gain citizenship status. I know of haitians, jamaicans and other people living here illegally.

But seeing the protests by illegal mexi-spanics over the law, I had to repeat a phrase I've heard from my grandma..."a hit dog will hollar..."

A hit dog will holler indeed! One of the political tactics used over and over again is to scream, stomp your feet, and pull the racist card out. This usually happens when you can't use logical arguments against something.

I read it already. I'm also [possibly] one of the few that has actually read completely through the final permutation of the Health Care bill.

Appreciate you posting it. I think it's important for Americans to read (not saying others shouldn't) and understand. I don't see any draconian language in there, nor anything that allows profiling. If a person is stopped by the legal authorities in relation to a lawful probable-cause event, then they had better be carrying documents that demonstrates their lawful ability to be a resident of the United States. It's really not much different than the federal law on the books, other than it places enforcement in the state context.

Exactly what should've been done (IMO) a long time ago -- shore up the laws already existing.

Having had occasion to see Cuban families in POS "boats" trying to cross 500+ miles of open ocean for a CHANCE at a less oppressive life, I feel for people who take desperate measures for the good of their families. Regardless of local law, I will never deny any human being water, food or fuel. Still, I believe borders should be protected, and those who occupy a nation unlawfully discovered and deported. It's a sad state our world is in, but (again, IMO) no nation's citizens should be expected to pay for services that benefit people who do not occupy its lands legally.

I have no problem with people -- here where I live or in the U.S. -- who gain legal status/citizenship/residency/work permit. Here, a work permit is the analogue of the U.S. green card, more or less.

Originally posted by andy1033
Really is it so bad that a country of immigrants which you are open yourself up to others a little more? Whats the problem there, can no one else have a bit of the pie?

If I run a Pie store, we will call it American Pies; I let people in via an orderly line, each person pays for their piece. They enjoy the pie and my business is pleasant and profitable.

If I just sit the pies out and everyone rushes in breaking the windows to jump in, people grabbing fists full and whole pies, my store is wrecked, not everyone gets some pie, people get hurt in the process, and I'm out of business. Now my family is out on the street, hungry.

To hell with them.