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Discussion About Deja vu And What Causes This Strange Phenomenon.

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posted on May, 13 2010 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by havok
, later through life, have had many predictive dreams where I could actually finish sentences of those I had the experience with. I don't actually tell the person, rather I keep it to myself and record it at home. I'm a little OCD when it comes to this, as I like to write down things that may seem important at a later date.


Thanks for sharing Havok,

Some of your experiences are similar to my own, particularly when I have had very clear memory of dreams that actualize and have completed sentences or even give information that is completely unknown to me to a person as a result of having a clear run at the memory.

The reality is not everyone is going to access memory that links or bridges dreams to a form of Déjà , that is why I stress on sleep induced amnesia and dream illiteracy as part of the reason.

Myrtales Instinct also supports this theory with their experiences with the phenomena of precognition, and you will find ample anecdotal cases current and through history which supports the fact some (not all) people remember dreams that come true.

Unfortunately, it actually takes having enough validation of precognition before a person can realistically understand this process as having validity. For the most part, one can only remain skeptical and it is also why many theories look at neurological answers rather then phenomenological answers to the existence of Déjà Vu.

However, the phenomenological route is the correct route and all the other theories are really just flat earth theories which really have no weight if we get the the source of the truth of this phenomena.

There is a branch of research into Déjà Rêvé that seeks to link it to Quantum Mechanics and concepts such as entanglement. There is enough emerging quantum biophysics that prove the human brain acts as a functioning quantum super computer and that it naturally uses many quantum states such as tunneling which in Takaaki Musha's research states that the human brain is quite capable of Faster Than Light computation by using
Evanescent Photons

Takakki's Research Paper

The thought that our brain can actually exceed the speed of light in computation and enter quantum states suggests the possibility of time travel as a result of these accelerated states. The fact our brain uses quantum states does link consciousness to the likely hood of entanglement.

Personally, the process of how a dream actualizes into a physical event and why it brings about an aura of Déjà vu stems from something we call synchronicity.

When the memory (conscious or sub-conscious) syncs up with the nano-second that the physical event pattern matches, an overwhelming feeling of familiarity (the aura) naturally occurs.

I akin this to a feeling of stepping through a gate or portal into a past-memory (naturally stemming from a previous dream where by the dream was the source of the now actualizing event).

Make no mistake, serious researchers are certainly traversing the precognitive dream avenue a the source of Déjà vu. Vernon Neppe, Art Funkhouser, Ed Kellogg to name a few. There is a long list.

I know of this link through experiences such as yourself which clearly demonstrated to me at least, the source of my Déjà vu.

In knowing through having first hand experience it makes all the other theories quite flat compared to the bigger reality that I am most certainly enjoying as a result.

Fun times!.




posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:51 AM
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i'm pretty sure a logical and somewhat accepted theory for what causes both deja vu and jamais vu...simple partial seizures.
some people have a lower seizure threshold than others and so small imbalances or increased/prolonged stress could cause little (or even big--but for this example really, really small) seizures that are shrugged off as a strange smell only your "nose" senses or a twitchy finger or hand.
the feeling of deja vu (while i believe beyond this...) can be explained scientifically as simply the "FEELING" one has experienced said situation before...not that one actually and provably HAS experienced the situation before...



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:59 AM
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a glitch in the matrix.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 04:46 AM
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Originally posted by double_frick
i'm pretty sure a logical and somewhat accepted theory for what causes both deja vu and jamais vu...simple partial seizures.


This is a bunk garbage theory as it implies anyone who has Déjà vu by association is an epileptic and has temporal lobe epilepsy. Granted the link was established due to the on set of a seizure aura similar to a migraine aura, and as Déjà vu also produces it's own aura thus a link is drawn. That plus some TLE sufferers report Déjà vu.

But the fact is, many people who do not suffer any form of epilepsy still have Déjà vu. Hence, the TLE connection is not the cause. It has been dis-proven and fits within the realms of reason that everyone who has Déjà vu is also not having a seizure... if that was so, we would all be on Vaporic Acid or Lamotragine.

Ergo, this theory is rubbish and has long been abandoned by those who even came up with it as the theory of choice.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 04:56 AM
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I know for a fact that my Deja vu is caused from precognitive dreams. I have an excellent dream memory and after I get deja vu I can almost always think back and recall the dream. It could be different for other people but I know for a fact that this is the cause of my deja vu experiences.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 05:38 AM
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reply to post by calstorm
 


Hey Calstorm, thanks for sharing your experiences and as such add to the growing list of people who have bridged the link between Déjà Vu and Déjà Rêvé.

Someone bumped an old thread on Precognitive Dreams with many members coming forward and discussing the fact they have had dreams that come true. If you haven't noticed it, it's a great read and also helps to enlighten people as to the source of Déjà Vu rather then chasing some dead fish theory.

I thought you might find the thread as interesting as I had.

Thread on Precognitive Dreams



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 05:41 AM
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Whoa, unreal!! I'm sure I've seen this thread before!!



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 07:47 AM
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reply to post by double_frick
 


You have to remember that 60-70% of people have had deja vu. You can't put it all down to seizures or stress. Although i'm sure stress can be a factor.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by ALOSTSOUL]



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 07:46 AM
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Hi folks,

This discussion has recently been brought to my attention by Dr. Art Funkhouser of Switzerland. Dr. Funkhouser, together with Dr. Vernon Neppe are members of my own FORUM. Indeed Dr. Funkhouser isthe moderator of the Deja section of this FORUM. It is not my intention to draw any of you folks away from ATS but we have had many interesting discussions and debates regarding this enigmatic phenomenon and some of you may find these of interest. It can be checked out by following this link:

www.anthonypeake.com...

Myself and the two doctors have written fairly extensively on the deja phenomenon and we have come to some interesting, and challenging, observations. Dr. Funkhouser suggests that a deja experience can be linked to a dream that you have recently had. In this dream you experience a dream-related precognition that in some way is processed by the subconscious from your own future. Indeed such an idea was first suggested by the engineer J.W Dunne back in the 1930's in his book "An Experiment With Time". However whereas Dunne suggested that the experiencer recognises the dream link, Art suggests that that feeling of confusion and mystery that surrounds a deja experience is because we fail to make the association with the dream and as such we just have a feeling of recognition.

For me this is only a partial explanation. It does not explain the process by which a deja experiencer has a precognitive dream. How can we know the future before it has actually happened? Can there be a scientifically (or specifically neurologically) based explanation as to how we can sometimes "perceive" things that are yet to happen?

In my books I suggest that there is a link to temporal lobe epilepsy, and also migraine and, in extreme cases, schizophrenia. However the power of the deja experience is a continum that runs from "normal" (by this I mean those whose neuro-chemical brain processes are not unusual) through migraine, TLE, schizophrenia and possibly even Bi-Polar Disorder, autism and aspergers. Each point on this scale perceives stronger deja experiences. I suggest that stronger deja sensations are experienced during the "aura" state of migraine and TLE, and that these "altered states" are facilitated by a cocktail of neurotransmitters (specifically but not excusively related to glutamate and endogenous '___').

I further suggest that there are two gradations of the deja experience. The first involves a vague recognition as the events unfold. The second, usually experienced by those who experience classic migraine and TLE, involves a precognitive element .... the experiencer feels that they know what is about to happen next. Whether this is a real experience or an hallucination is beside the point. For the experiencer this sensation is not only real but is proved by subsequent events.

Two weeks ago I did one of my regular slots on BBC Radio Merseyside. My subject matter was, surprisingly, migraine. I mentioned the precognitive deja sensations during aura state and we had a caller, on live radi, describe in detail his experience. Indeed he claimed that he wrote down what his wife was about to say to him before she said it!

To really appreciate just how fascinating this subject is I strongly advise anybody genuinely interested in this phenomenon to read Oliver Sack's book "Migraine".

Anybody interested in helping me in my work (and Dr Funkhouser and Dr. Neppe) is very welcome to join us on my FORUM. WE are really looking for people to describe their experiences without fear of ridicule or sarcasm. That is not what we are about. We are genuinely trying to find out exactly what is taking place and how it may advance our understanding of the greatest mystery in the universe .... the nature of human consciousness.

Finally, if anybody is at all interested, I will be doing a live, two hour Web TV interview. Details: www.youtube.com...



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 10:03 AM
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Hey thanks for the link I will check it out. The thought of Deja being related to precognitive dreams is a very intresting one. The only problem I have with this theory is that I can never predict what is going to happen next but perhaps that because I don't remember the dreams. I wish there was a way to remember my dream especially the precognitive ones.

Peace out.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by YouAreDreaming
 


Interesting...

So deja vu is something like bits and pieces of forgotten precognitive dreams?



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 11:53 AM
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Thanks for contributing to this thread Anthony. I must say, it's a small Internet, and a pleasant surprise.

For those of you who do not know Anthony Peake, he is a writer and researcher relative to this topic and beyond. I'll link his wiki page so you can become familiar with his work.

en.wikipedia.org...

The fact that Dr. Art Funkhouser has also graced this thread [read] is something those of you seriously interested in this topic need to take note of, he also excels in the area of this research. I can only speak in high regard for both Anthony and Art.



Originally posted by itladian01
For me this is only a partial explanation. It does not explain the process by which a deja experiencer has a precognitive dream. How can we know the future before it has actually happened? Can there be a scientifically (or specifically neurologically) based explanation as to how we can sometimes "perceive" things that are yet to happen?


This is the driving question... how can we know "future" information before it happens? Physical Law rejects such a possibility and it seems to counter everything we believe scientifically as being possible, even with common sense and critical thinking the notion that seemingly random events that lead up to a future event has to be impossible to predict or know.

That would be true if those projecting those theories and beliefs were right. Clearly, for those who have had future knowledge in the form of some type of precognition have to beg the bigger question, how is this so?

What it really boils down to is our current ideological beliefs and linear way of thinking. The model of our Universe is more materialistic in how we derive our theories about the workings of the Universe.

However, your books do touch on the lurking answers to this question, you bring up the Daemon and Eildelon relationships, the concepts of the "Black Iron Prison" of the Demigurge and of course, my favorite: "The Bohmian IMAX".

Each of these present a emerging model of an answer if we can look past our beliefs in what we call "Physical Reality", or the Democritus view of the Universe, one where everything is just matter and return to a more Platonic view of idealism where the origins of the Universe is founded on consciousness and thought, we will extract more momentum towards answering the questions and processes involved.

In modern times, there are excellent emerging theories that have scientific measure such as Brian Whitworth's paper called "The Physical World as a Virtual Reality" which introduces the concept that this "Reality" could be some type of "Virtual Reality" with a recursive feedback interface.

"The Mathematical Universe," Max Tegmark also embarks on VR theory. Included in this is the work of Nick Bostrum, "Are You Living In a Computer Simulation?" and of course , "My Big Toe" by Tom Campbell which succeeds the work conducted at The Monroe Institute.

Suffice to say, I personally feel you are on track to coming into this knowing as you have no doubtidly steered yourself in this direction. What it boils down to is belief. We believe the world is flat, we believe the Universe is physical and in no way linked to the mind or consciousness...

When the fact is, the Universe is virtual and comes from a source we call consciousness. When we start to embark on what it means to come from a Conscious Universe as opposed to the belief that we come from a Physical Universe then the answers start to make more sense in regard to Precognitive Dreams and related phenomena.

Case in point, if the Universe itself originated as some ambient consciousness then how did it organize itself into what we have today... a very detailed and robust physical appearing system? What processes and tools could a Conscious Universe possibly use to organize such a state.

If we look at consciousness as the source, then we can see also in ourselves some of these mechanics at work. Consciousness has an ability to organize thought into a pattern that can emerge and be displayed on the "Bohmian IMAX".

Your digital theater is very exact in that we all must "render" information [thought] into a coherent IMAX experience. I've mentioned to you that I have studied the Bohmian IMAX concept both while awake, and also during lucid dreams to affirm that this particular model is fundamental and intrinsic in our consciousness system.

Thought needs to be rendered into coherent experiences. All consciousness has is thought by which it then must organize and project into a virtual reality we commonly know as a dream.

If a dream is just organized thought, which clearly it is. You certainly have no atoms or molecules in a virtual dream reality. Even your eyes, ears, nose and body in the dream is one of virtualization. How does something so thought orientated and thought based possibly come true?

The answer lies in the fact that all there is, is consciousness and thought. Every reality we will ever encounter, regardless of belief or desire to detract from this "Conscious Universe" will inevitably return to the fundamental basic framework of what we are, what reality is, and what our relationship with it implies.

In discussions with Tom Campbell and Ted Vollers with regards to my own personal observations of precognitive potential dreams and the actualization of such dreams, the understanding that a "Conscious Universe" exists and has somehow individualized itself into ""many parts"... which follows in line with Karl Le Marcs "Collapsing the Consciousness wave". It means, we are all parts of one massive consciousness reality system.

As a part of this system, the evidence of a virtual reality thought based reality generator becomes very observable in the form of dreams. The fact they synchronize and actualize into what we believe is a "Physical Universe" is self-similar to a fractal where a smaller part now emerges within a much larger fractal node.

The science and answers need to embark down the path which many of us seem to fear most... that there is more then a Physical Reality and there really is a "Conscious Reality" in it's place, masquerading in belief only... as a "Physical" one.

Precognitive dreams are merely potential probabilities within a probability database / matrix. The actualization of them subscribes to something Tom Campbell describes as "The Big Computer" or the part of our Conscious Universe that stitches it all together and makes it happen.

Thought is the key to unraveling the mystery... dreams are merely a form of thought.

Fun Times!

[edit on 19-5-2010 by YouAreDreaming]



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by juveous
reply to post by YouAreDreaming
 


Interesting...

So deja vu is something like bits and pieces of forgotten precognitive dreams?


In my case, and for some others (who also conclude such an answer) I can only answer Yes. There is no doubt in my mind that precognitive dreams or this process that makes a dream precognitive is also a source of deja vu.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by YouAreDreaming]



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 12:14 PM
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The theories on page one do not explain my experiences with "deja vu" and then honestly I hurried through everything else because I was too anxious to post, sorry I'll go back and edit if need be.


I have had quite a few experiences of it, I'll share two and they are both dream related.

The first is essentially my current life. I had a dream where I was standing in a hallway looking into a bed room watching myself sleeping (literally) with my spouse. I wasn't seeing anyone at the time but in the dream I knew it was my spouse but I did not see the face. I did remember what the home looked like, placement of furniture the whole thing. It wasn't particularly a memorable dream, and I didn't even remember it until after I saw where we were moving to, I wasn't much involved in picking it out and didn't see it until we signed on it. When I walked through it, seemed alright, until I walked down the hallway and looked into the master bedroom. When suddenly I remembered the dream. I figured this is where we were meant to start. our life together.

The second is the similar. I was standing in a college science lab I looked around and that was it. About 6 years later I decided to go back to school for another degree, different school though. When I walked into my anatomy class wouldn't you know it was the same lab I dreamed about 6 years earlier.

The thing I don't understand is that initially I will think deja vu, then I remember having the dream, I just shrug it off as this is what I am supposed to be doing. The dreams always seem inconsequential at the time, and it takes years for it to come through. Once I really noticed it about 3 years ago I've been better about paying attention to my dreams.


Glad I reserved my right to edit: I agree it is precognitive dreaming. In my case, I had not met my spouse, and we moved out of state, there is no way that my dream had been influenced by anything.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by searching4truth]



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 12:37 PM
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From the time I was a small child, I had deja vu almost constantly.

(I also had regular OBE's and lucid dreamed at will. Until I was 18, and a skeptical sort -- I'd never had that applied to these topics as I thought it was normal for everyone -- and started reading about them, and closed a lot of it, though not all of it, down, apparently.)

I had this so chronically throughout my life that I spent a lot of my childhood kind of reaching for an answer. At times it would seem to happen "on a continuum" with life events that I would realize, just a moment or three before they occurred, I had dreamed about. Sometimes it didn't seem related.

When I was a teen I was a christian, and one day I told my father that I felt I had already lived my life and blown it. He says, what do you mean? And I told him about the chronic deja vu all my life. I said I had heard this bible story about a man who had died and gone to hell, or something like that, and he had pleaded with God to let him come back and witness to his former wife and child. And apparently God had mercy and let this happen. (I can't remember where this story is from. I am not religious now. Much of the stuff handed me at that age from church was... at best something I would skeptical about now, e.g., the reason for those millions of years old bones is because "the devil just put those there to confuse you." LOL.)

I said that I had finally come to the conclusion, as it was the only thing I could fathom, is that I had lived my life and horribly screwed it up, and perhaps I had asked God to be allowed to live it over. And apparently I was living it again, but unfortunately, obviously I was making all the same decisions as I did the previous time.

He said in some horror, "What a terrible belief!" I hadn't ever told anybody before that, and didn't realize until that day that he was right -- that's a really terrible psychological burden for a kid to carry around!

Quite a few years later I read, I believe in OMNI magazine, that deja vu was nothing more than a random out of the blue 'accidental firing' of something in the brain that released some chemical associated with "a sense of remembering." This was certainly a more cheerful framework than the one I'd had as a teen, so I adopted that with glee. It was all a random coincidence and didn't mean anything.

But then 1993-95 rolled around, an era I call my "Bewilderness" era, where my life, mind, and physical reality itself was a bit ... ah, unusual. In retrospect I believe this stems from what some call a kundalini experience, but this would be difficult to prove with a test tube. Anyway, the point is:

During this era, deja vu which had reduced to only rare/occasional for some years at that point, came back in a major way. Sometimes, it was so powerful that every single movement and word or action of people and circumstance felt "immersed" in this for some time. At times this was so powerful that I hated it, and I did a lot of experimenting with how I could stop it. I could say or do something I knew/felt was different, but it was only a blip and generally things would continue. Only if I did something really major, really radically different -- something that was much like behaving irrationally, doing something completely different than a situation called for, or literally just up and leaving that location rapidly -- that was the only way I could make it stop. Otherwise, it would just take awhile to taper-off.

And then the deja vu started sliding forward. I wasn't observing something and thinking, "wow that's familiar," I was realizing that something was about to occur. At first it slid forward until they were about simultaneous, but then it kept moving, until it was a few seconds ahead of time. Enough time that I could think about this objectively, consider whether my subconscious could be picking this up and extrapolating or not, etc. I finally concluded that this was genuine precognition, that my deja vu was 'remembering precognition' and that for some reason I was finally able to remember this *before* the events actually occurred.

Not too long after I came to this conclusion, I read a book by Jane Roberts (The Nature of Personal Reality) where Seth (her alter-ego... so to speak) basically said exactly this. That deja vu was a 'memory' but it was a memory of having had the experience via precognition, so when you had it again in this-state-of-mind it seemed like an exact repeat. I was astounded that someone else had come to the same conclusion I had, but like most people that agree with one, I considered it genius. ;-)

During that era, I had other forms of serious precognition, as well as other forms of psi. I was a medical-model skeptic and hypnotist prior to this, and so it was a gradual 'cracking' of my reality; I'm lucky I didn't end up in straightjacket (damn near!). I could give trivial examples all day, but here is one that occurred while I was dealing with the "sliding" of deja vu from after to before an event: I was driving around my small city on a Saturday and just as I came to this tiny crossroad that dumped into one of the major streets, as I slowed to stop, I suddenly was overwhelmed by level-10 panic and slammed on my breaks and screamed. I could have sworn that I had hit a child, I thought a little boy, in the crosswalk. I hadn't, though, it was like a hallucination. I hyperventilated a little, and then laughed at myself -- "women drivers!" -- and went on with my day.

About an hour later I was across that major street getting gas, when I heard this shouting from a couple guys at the station, and I leaned around the pump and to see what was going on. They were gesturing and other people were babbling, and I saw that *precisely* where I had been an hour prior and reacted, some woman in a car had hit a little boy in this crosswalk. I just stood there. My logical mind was instantly running through statistics -- "It could happen, sometimes such things happen, it's probably coincidence," you know the game -- but in my gut I knew utterly that I had felt *her* emotions and experience at the same place. Of course then my logical mind started in on physics and how this could be practical, since it's a physiological link... :-)

A lot of other things occurred during that period, many of which were not provable (e.g. just 'knowing' a great deal about someone's health or situation or relationship, in stores), but some of which never happened.

RC



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by YouAreDreaming

Originally posted by juveous
reply to post by YouAreDreaming
 


Interesting...

So deja vu is something like bits and pieces of forgotten precognitive dreams?


In my case, and for some others (who also conclude such an answer) I can only answer Yes. There is no doubt in my mind that precognitive dreams or this process that makes a dream precognitive is also a source of deja vu.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by YouAreDreaming]


I'm just curious why there hasn't been much documentation from people who keep dream journals, giving enormous evidence that precognition exist when they confirm it with deja vu?

I would think by now there would have been a smoking gun dream, that gave details of location, age, and descriptions.



[edit on 19-5-2010 by juveous]



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by juveousI'm just curious why there hasn't been much documentation from people who keep dream journals, giving enormous evidence that precognition exist when they confirm it with deja vu?

I would think by now there would have been a smoking gun dream, that gave details of location, age, and descriptions.


Nobody takes claims of precognitive dreams seriously. Especially since they most often involve hyper personal scenarios that can't be easily verified by other people. I've kept a dream journal for over 15 years, and only experienced this once.

A funny thing though, a few years back, instead of thinking "This has happened before" like I usually do during deja vu, I starting thinking "I've dreamed this before". Don't know why, it's not like I reached any personal conclusions on the matter, it's just what popped into my head.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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@searching4truth Thanks for sharing, it's always exciting to meet someone such as yourself who share in similar experiences to my own. Just shows how close we are to getting to the source and nature of this phenomena.

@RedCairo Thanks for sharing. As you can see in this thread, many people share in similar experiences. My fractal like interests always enjoys self-similar patterns, even if they are in human experience.

@Juveous I know in my case, I did have entries in dream journals that I could go back and validate. I stopped journalling regrettably in my teens due to a fact that my parents went on a kind of witch hunt on me, and totally violated my personal privacy. As a result, I destroyed all my diaries and entries.

I do believe that this experience is very subjective and we do exist in a subjective enigma with our objective Universe, this subjective relationship makes proving something that affects individuals difficult to prove objectively. Even having an entry in a journal that you can prove to yourself doesn't mean you can prove it to say, James Randi who wasn't there at the time.

Tom Campbell says this is by design and is part of something he calls the PSI Uncertainty Principle. Kind of a mechanism that allows for individual growth as consciousness that protects or shields others that may not be ready to grow in that direction.

Ed Kellog describes something similar called "Fear of the Paranormal" where people retract from what they think are paranormal experiences.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by YouAreDreaming
@Juveous I know in my case, I did have entries in dream journals that I could go back and validate. I stopped journalling regrettably in my teens due to a fact that my parents went on a kind of witch hunt on me, and totally violated my personal privacy. As a result, I destroyed all my diaries and entries.

I do believe that this experience is very subjective and we do exist in a subjective enigma with our objective Universe, this subjective relationship makes proving something that affects individuals difficult to prove objectively. Even having an entry in a journal that you can prove to yourself doesn't mean you can prove it to say, James Randi who wasn't there at the time.

Tom Campbell says this is by design and is part of something he calls the PSI Uncertainty Principle. Kind of a mechanism that allows for individual growth as consciousness that protects or shields others that may not be ready to grow in that direction.

Ed Kellog describes something similar called "Fear of the Paranormal" where people retract from what they think are paranormal experiences.

Not long ago, I was writing down about subjectivity and personal objective experiences, and thought about "what if this is just some sort of defense mechanism, in order to preserve it"?

Why other people cannot see, even through explanation. Now you mentioning it works as a way to only grow when you are ready makes a lot of sense.

great work YouAreDreaming!



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 03:25 PM
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I'm just curious why there hasn't been much documentation from people who keep dream journals, giving enormous evidence that precognition exist when they confirm it with deja vu? I would think by now there would have been a smoking gun dream, that gave details of location, age, and descriptions

Well, first, I think we have to not go assuming about these things; just because we would like precognitive dreams to have all factual information lined up doesn't mean they do. Once in awhile.

Plenty of precog dreams you have no way of knowing if they are precog until after something happens, at which point you can't just go claim you dreamed it since nobody would believe you. Also, most people who have more psi in their life than usual have a lot of information/interaction with what I'd call a larger set of realities; they may not know whether or not any given dream is going to be real "in this world" or not.

Then, a lot of psi information tends to be symbolic, since that is the mind's language. Many times interpreting it correctly is difficult enough even for an "in general," let alone detail.

Further, people mix up, forget, graft on, and create-on-misremembering as they awaken, precog dreams no differently than they do other dreams sometimes, so there is that to consider.

Many of my precog dreams have been boring as dirt. I mean totally trivial. Nobody would care that I was looking at a unique flower design on a yellow plate when someone dropped a tray of dishes in the restaurant behind me would they? Probably not. :-)

Others I'm not even sure if I should call them precog. Sometimes they are the exact *opposite* of something that happens in the world and yet, they are so specific to something that happens, which usually I am (a) completely uninvolved with and uninterested in, and (b) out of the blue, that I have to wonder about the "synchronicity." These were usually in 'chaos tags' that sort of attached to the end of other dreams. Those things I don't consider particularly precog, maybe slightly, but often wrong, confused, symbolic, and mixed up with other stuff. I think if the biggest thing in the news was some guy swinging from a chandelier, I might well get that in some chaos-tag dream, even if it was totally untrue. If that's what was on the 'mass consciousness' attention that might come through.

I was trying to find where I had written down this following example because I thought I had it on ATS maybe a few years ago but alas, I can't find it. So I will summarize it. I consider it a good example of an only semi-specific and yet clearly precog dream.

My father has an old friend named Lucky. Was close to him, learned pedal steel guitar from him, but I didn't know the man well and did not like him when I was a kid. I'd forgotten about him. Dad did have another friend named Sam, and about six months prior, Sam had died. Dad had been really down about it, and said he wished he'd called him more often.

One night I had a dream and woke up "knowing" that Lucky was going to die. I gave him a week; two at the most. I had the powerful feeling that I needed to tell my dad and he needed to call him -- so this time, he could get some closure. I didn't even know if they were still friends, I just assumed so. I had no idea why or how the guy might die, whether suddenly or from some illness, but I felt so strongly about it that I called my dad at work.

I first asked him how long since he had talked to the man and he said over a year and a half; that about six months prior he'd sent him a couple discs and pictures in the mail, but never heard back from him and had kind of forgotten about it. I told him about the dream and pleaded with him to call the guy immediately. He doesn't believe in psi or take dreams seriously so he was kind of laughing at me, but I was kind of badgering and he finally said ok.

I called him a couple days later and asked if he had called. He said yeah but nobody answered. I badgered him again to call so he said he would. I called him again Friday and he said he hadn't talked with him yet. By now I was having a mild freakout about it, I felt his death was so imminent very soon likely in days at the most, and I insisted capital-I that he call that night no matter what! So he promised me he would. And he did. They talked for hours and he said it was really great to talk with him.

Lucky died Monday morning. I think some kind of heart failure. And yes -- it turns out he had about 9 different health issues going on, so any of them could theoretically have taken him out at any time. But I certainly didn't know any of that, from across the country from some guy I hadn't even heard about in years, let alone with such precision timing; the doctors did not expect him to die at that point, his wife said it was a surprise, that they thought medication and such had things under control.

Dad has a hard time with the psi subject and doesn't want to believe any of it. He managed to "forget" that the whole reason he called Lucky was because I told him of my dream and adamantly insisted, repeatedly, that he do so. In fact, in a conversation where I reminded him of this -- *twice* no less -- he actually said, not 60 seconds later, "...and I don't know why I had the urge to call him but I'm glad I did." I realized all the sudden that he really couldn't deal with the means of info, and for his own good I just needed to let him insta-forget it again and I should shut up, so I did.

There have been other smaller instances but I think this is a good example. I didn't have a time/date exact on this. I didn't have a how/why at all. I only had a concern for my father who had grieved so over his buddy Sam, and so apparently some antenna of mine saw it coming with Lucky and arranged that this would not happen to him again.

Scoffers would say that a dated notarized with a big long list of specifics ought to be provided for proof, and perhaps so. But in my life, I've had a lot of precog dreams, since childhood in fact, and most of them are either (a) trivial daily life, or (b) symbolic stuff I understand only just before, during or after its occurring in the world, or (c) partial stuff that has some info and not other stuff, or some valid info and some not.

RC



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