Where is everyone ? The mystery remains ...

This very question was answered by the proposal of the "zoo" theory. Research it!

reply to post by tauristercus


Let us add to the list a final proposition that some of us, the PTB, (scientific and government (suppored by government money, peer pressure, grants, contracts and reasons of secrecy) simply fail to admit that UFOs are exactly what this long-winded denial is trying to pass off as a through examination of the situation.

In short, anyone that has a decent UFO encounter automatically knows that this material is simply avoiding the issue of UFOs, and thus, has no merit, zero credibility. --Which is exactly the argument used agains us "believers" and, of course, is implied by all of these words.

What "proof" we do have of UFOs, official and unofficial reports, images, physical traces, historical records, etc. all amount to a huge amount of counter argument that vastly overwhelms these mental arguments.

As I like to say when confronting this type of intellectual materbation is "You shoulda been there...."

You have ask the one question which can only be answered when the mother ship is in orbit and a shuttle craft lands on the White house lawn.

As for now, we are all there is!

We should consider ourselves an "accident of nature" and get on with living. You see by his very nature man is too short sited to ever take on a project which does not show a far more immediate return than would come from the exploration of even the nearest star. The very idea of waiting more than a few weeks for word of a definitive contact with another civilization will not allow such a project to get funded by politicians who can benefit more by padding their own pockets.

If you really want to see men go to another planet, find a way to stack up money all the way to said planet and tell the politicians the larger bills are at the other end.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by hdutton]

... even considering that mind-boggling view, the point that I'm trying to ram home is that given the age of our galaxy (approx 13 billion years), even that staggering amount of stars could conceivably be colonized by any technologically advanced civilization[edit on 12/5/10 by tauristercus]

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We are on the same page, I think. Though your page be the more scholarly.

The point I have attempted to make with a couple of posts in this thread in regards the question (Where Are They?) is that "They"...are out there, right now.

Living, breathing, interplanetary trading, intergalactic cats. And, maybe, they really are cats, who knows?

But, that's the point, who knows? Until science can deliver us the photos of the teaming cities on a thousand different worlds, to paraphrase Al Pacino: "We're in the dark here!"

Now, The Ancient Astronaut Theory. I don't think the jist of your OP was our world. But, as others have mentioned -- it is quite probable we were visited at certain key (pyramid building) moments in our planet's history.

They are out there. Just very far away. We can't see them.

well, to answer WHY would us detect them

1)THE UNIVERSE IS A DANGEROUS PLACE - its hard for a civilization to survive long enough to develop tech to protect themselves and survive long enough to develop more hi tech to achieve us

2)SIGNALS TRAVEL @ LIGHT SPEED OR CLOSE TO IT - so, yeah, we may not get a lot from it, because life may not have evolved in other places before, and they may not even use these type of tech that we use

3)WHAT MAKES YOU THINK WE ARE NOT THEM? - well, we may possibly be their DNA, so, thats why they dont come here anymore, they simply already did and made a huge favor for this planet (or not) and helped us to develop into an intelligent species

4)THEY MAY ALREADY BE HERE - lets say they have tech good enough to come here, they wouldnt announce themselves, they would want to study us, thought AI, or even trying to get into our society, like a V thing, not in a bad way, just to study - you guys need to understand, IF some civilization have the TECH to come here, imagine what else they would be able to do

5)MAYBE CIVILIZATIONS FROM OUR GALAXY ARE YOUNG TOO - well, if you consider that life may have come from other places, maybe our galaxy was seeded with life and just now that we are developing into intelligent species, so, we cant detect signals that are being broadcasted right now by these civilization

6) OK, THERE IS A HIGH TECH CIV IN OUR GALAXY - but why would we believe that they would use some primitive type of communication? that just doesnt make sense, just think about the internet: information is send thought various routes and in many packets that, if you look at them, they would look like nonsense, they are only information if united

7)WHY WOULD THEY SEND PEOPLE HERE? - life exists everywhere, inteligent life probably too, so, why would they send people here? if they want to explore, they would send AI, just like us, to explore planets; since we are far from them, they would need to send some really hi tech things here, and well, isnt that weird that a lot of people claim that they saw some being like robot ? well, maybe its not our imagination, maybe there are AI right now studying us

8)MAYBE THERE IS NO WAY TO TRAVEL THOUGHT SPACE - yeah, maybe its just not possible for things to travel like with a wormhole, who knows ... I find hard to believe, but its possible ... no civilization would be able travel if they were to be extinct, they would just send maybe life thought some spaceship aiming planets like us

people seem to think we are important, the reality is that are billions of STARS SYSTEMS IN THIS FREAKING GALAXY, wake up, there are probably many places to visit before ours ...





[edit on 12-5-2010 by Faiol]

Has anyone read about the drake equation?

Combine that with the fermi paradox and you only have four answers in my humble opinion.

1) We really are alone in the universe.

2)We are just to far spread out and in too few numbers(read the drake equation and it says that the estimate of advanced civilizations in the galaxy are only 10)

3) We evolved around the same time and we just dont have the technology to contact each other...would we even want to?

4) combination of 2 and 3

[edit on 12-5-2010 by tauempire]

Originally posted by tauempire
Has anyone read about the drake equation?

Combine that with the fermi paradox and you only have for answers in my humble opinion.

1) We really are alone in the universe.

2)We are just to far spread out and in too few numbers(read the drake equation and it says that the estimate of advanced civilizations in the galaxy are only 10)

3) We evolved around the same time and we just dont have the technology to contact each other...would we even want to?

4) combination of 2 and 3

I couldn't have created this thread without being aware of and checking out the Drake Equation. This equation formulated by Frank Drake back in 1961 was an attempt to estimate the number of civilizations in our galaxy capable of interstellar communication

Here it is:

N = R* × fp × ne × fl × fi × fc × L

and here are what each of the factors represent:

N Present number of extraterrestrial races capable of interstellar communication
R* Mean rate of star formation, averaged over the lifetime of the Galaxy
fp Fraction of stars that have planets
ne Average number of planets in a planetary system suitable for life
fl Fraction of suitable planets on which life actually develops
fi Fraction of life-bearing planets on which intelligent life develops
fc Fraction of intelligence-bearing planets on which the capacity for interstellar communication develops
L Average lifetime of a technological civilization


Unfortunately however, of the seven factors that appear on the right side of the Drake Equation, only one (R*) can be estimated at present with any degree of confidence. The remaining factors can only be guessed at based on our current understanding. Current and near-future research on extrasolar planets will gradually reduce the uncertainties in three other factors, fp, ne, and fl. However, the values of the remaining three factors, which relate to the evolution of extraterrestrial intelligence and technology, are likely to remain a matter of pure speculation for a very long time, unless contact is made with a more advanced civilization which could convey this knowledge immediately.

So depending on what you decide to plug into the Drake Equation, you could get anything from less than 1 to more than 1 billion ... so not very helpful at all.


Your point (1):
From a mathematical point of view, statistically it is so improbable that we are the only intelligent race in the universe that it's almost a certainty that there are others.

Your point (3):
Based on the age of our galaxy at approximately 13 billion years and the fact that life on Earth only appeared on Earth approximately 4 billion years ago, that leaves a whopping 9 billion years for the emergence of many other intelligent species prior to our own.

reply to post by Silicis n Volvo

theres a big difference between belief in ET life and belief in a god...

I believe there is a big difference between these beliefs. God gives us
guidelines for our lives. I think that is the big difference for most.

Originally posted by tauristercus

Originally posted by tauempire
Has anyone read about the drake equation?

Combine that with the fermi paradox and you only have for answers in my humble opinion.

1) We really are alone in the universe.

2)We are just to far spread out and in too few numbers(read the drake equation and it says that the estimate of advanced civilizations in the galaxy are only 10)

3) We evolved around the same time and we just dont have the technology to contact each other...would we even want to?

4) combination of 2 and 3

I couldn't have created this thread without being aware of and checking out the Drake Equation. This equation formulated by Frank Drake back in 1961 was an attempt to estimate the number of civilizations in our galaxy capable of interstellar communication

Here it is:

N = R* × fp × ne × fl × fi × fc × L

and here are what each of the factors represent:

N Present number of extraterrestrial races capable of interstellar communication
R* Mean rate of star formation, averaged over the lifetime of the Galaxy
fp Fraction of stars that have planets
ne Average number of planets in a planetary system suitable for life
fl Fraction of suitable planets on which life actually develops
fi Fraction of life-bearing planets on which intelligent life develops
fc Fraction of intelligence-bearing planets on which the capacity for interstellar communication develops
L Average lifetime of a technological civilization


Unfortunately however, of the seven factors that appear on the right side of the Drake Equation, only one (R*) can be estimated at present with any degree of confidence. The remaining factors can only be guessed at based on our current understanding. Current and near-future research on extrasolar planets will gradually reduce the uncertainties in three other factors, fp, ne, and fl. However, the values of the remaining three factors, which relate to the evolution of extraterrestrial intelligence and technology, are likely to remain a matter of pure speculation for a very long time, unless contact is made with a more advanced civilization which could convey this knowledge immediately.

So depending on what you decide to plug into the Drake Equation, you could get anything from less than 1 to more than 1 billion ... so not very helpful at all.


Your point (1):
From a mathematical point of view, statistically it is so improbable that we are the only intelligent race in the universe that it's almost a certainty that there are others.

Your point (3):
Based on the age of our galaxy at approximately 13 billion years and the fact that life on Earth only appeared on Earth approximately 4 billion years ago, that leaves a whopping 9 billion years for the emergence of many other intelligent species prior to our own.

I was going by carl sagans point of view.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by tauristercus

Your point (3):
Based on the age of our galaxy at approximately 13 billion years and the fact that life on Earth only appeared on Earth approximately 4 billion years ago, that leaves a whopping 9 billion years for the emergence of many other intelligent species prior to our own.

Bearing in mind however that I'm sure I read somewhere (I think it was "A brief history of time") that only second generation or greater stars are capable of having planets orbit them, as it's the debris created by a supernova of a first gen. star that forms the planets in the first place. This little fact sheds a few billion years off from the creation of the Universe for any star with a planet and therefore any civilization.

Originally posted by nik1halo

Originally posted by tauristercus

Your point (3):
Based on the age of our galaxy at approximately 13 billion years and the fact that life on Earth only appeared on Earth approximately 4 billion years ago, that leaves a whopping 9 billion years for the emergence of many other intelligent species prior to our own.

Bearing in mind however that I'm sure I read somewhere (I think it was "A brief history of time") that only second generation or greater stars are capable of having planets orbit them, as it's the debris created by a supernova of a first gen. star that forms the planets in the first place. This little fact sheds a few billion years off from the creation of the Universe for any star with a planet and therefore any civilization.

exactly people. follow the link i put on this page. Look at carl sagans point of view on the drake equation. thats what im talking about.

Originally posted by nik1halo

Originally posted by tauristercus

Your point (3):
Based on the age of our galaxy at approximately 13 billion years and the fact that life on Earth only appeared on Earth approximately 4 billion years ago, that leaves a whopping 9 billion years for the emergence of many other intelligent species prior to our own.

Bearing in mind however that I'm sure I read somewhere (I think it was "A brief history of time") that only second generation or greater stars are capable of having planets orbit them, as it's the debris created by a supernova of a first gen. star that forms the planets in the first place. This little fact sheds a few billion years off from the creation of the Universe for any star with a planet and therefore any civilization.

Our star system is a Population I stellar system, i.e. it is made up elements heavier than Lithium. Population I stars are necessary for the existence of life as we know it. Without the heavier elements no terrestrial planets could form, let alone the complex organic molecules that life is constructed of. Population I stars are formed from the remnants of nova and more importantly supernova. They are necessary processes to create and disperse the heavier elements that we are made up of. Stars that explode as supernova are massive and short lived, less than a million years. The amount of time required for a star to form out of an interstellar nebula is less than a million years.

Source: Stuart Ross Taylor, Solar System Evolution: A New Perspective, page 53


Based on the above, it would appear that this process would have very little impact on that huge 9 billion slice of 'spare' galactic time prior to the emergence of life on our planet.

I wonder if there is evidence of an ET presence visiting us and we just don't have the capabilites to decipher it. It's also quite possible that governments of the world have knowledge of this and this is just their means of controlling the sheeple. Or they just don't know what the hell it is...

We live in interesting times now. I believe that the human race is beginning to realize that there is more to our own history on this planet than what we have been spoon fed throughout history. We may realize that we have been here longer than we may have previously thought and quite possibly more advanced that we are now.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by LuckyStrike]

im not sure what to think of it

reply to post by tauristercus


Wonderful thread OP! Kudos!

Now let me answer the question of where are they. Using the best technology I could obtain I constructed a fantastic device. I call it "Cup on string", its a study in elegance and a marvel to behold in operation!




Inside my house I can even hear people in the next room, its awesome! So with fantastic tech in hand I aimed it toward another house on my street. You see there are other houses on my street and I'm pretty sure people live in them but I've never seen any of them. Anyway I aimed my cup at the nearest house and I was very disappointed to not hear anything but the lonely sound of the inside of my cup

I don't give up easily though, so went around to every window in my home and I aimed my cup at every house I could see. I ever went so far as to go to the second floor of my house with my cup. Again I was greeted with silence, honestly I am a bit perplexed, how could my fantastic tech which works so well inside my house not pick up intelligent life in the house next door?

Some day I do plan on traveling to a neighboring house to ring the door bell, the thought of someone answering the door leaves me filled with wonder! The other people in my house say I am crazy, they say "What if nobodies home?" "What if there is a no solicitors sign on the door?"




But I don't care, I have hope and maybe when I meet the "neighbors" I will understand why my cup and string wasn't working as planned.



[edit on 12-5-2010 by Helmkat]

What's to say that we haven't already begun to colonize the galaxy at some point in the past? Possibly, a previously advanced civilzation of humans here on earth were able to achieve interstellar travel and left before a big global wide cataclysm happened. This could have happened millions of years ago...Most evidence of any civilization could have easily been erased over millions of years.

Originally posted by Helmkat
reply to post by tauristercus

 

Wonderful thread OP! Kudos!

Now let me answer the question of where are they. Using the best technology I could obtain I constructed a fantastic device. I call it "Cup on string", its a study in elegance and a marvel to behold in operation! .....

That was a very enjoyable analogy ... well thought up

And yes, your cups inability to detect any apparent conversation emanating from your neighbours location could easily be taken as confirming 'proof' that your neighbours in fact do not exist and their houses are completely vacant.
However, the fatal drawback is that you can 'see' clear and obvious signs that your neighbours do in fact exist and that those houses are not vacant ... garbage bins appearing and disappearing ... sprinklers turning on/off ... the sound of cars travelling up and down your street ... etc, etc.

But when it comes to determining whether other civilizations exist in the galaxy with us, we understand that it may not be possible to intercept their communications ... we also have to take into account the fact that there is also no obvious sign of anything that would indicate the equivalent of your 'neighbours occupancy". No sign of alien garbage bins being moved ... or alien sprinklers turning on/off ... or alien cars being driven ... we in fact see and hear absolutely nothing.
As far as we can tell, it's nothing but a wasteland out there with no sign that occupancy had ever taken place during the lifetime of the galaxy.

Originally posted by LuckyStrike
What's to say that we haven't already begun to colonize the galaxy at some point in the past? Possibly, a previously advanced civilzation of humans here on earth were able to achieve interstellar travel and left before a big global wide cataclysm happened. This could have happened millions of years ago...Most evidence of any civilization could have easily been erased over millions of years.

But how would this explain the complete and total lack of observable evidence indicating the presence of other civilizations out there ? Sure the Earths previous civilization may have been completely wiped out, but what about the colonization program that started BEFORE the catastrophy ? What happened to them and their colonies and their artifacts and their communications ?

Silence reigns supreme out there apparently.

You know what? You RIGHT!

I'm going to go ahead and give my 8 month old the keys to my car so he can drive to to the candy store and gorge himself so that he never really develops teeth. I mean, in this day and age, does he really need teeth?

The point being ... if I gave my children the ability to do anything they want - would they make the choices that are best for themselves?

No, they wouldn't. They're children. So, they need to be treated like children until I feel that they are old enough to NOT DESTROY THEIR SELVES with abilities and technologies they're NOT READY FOR.

If this Galaxy IS vastly populated with extraterrestrials, how irresponsible would it be to come down and announce their presence to a world that still clings to a religious belief system. One that still fights each other because of religious differences. One that still kills people of other nations for the greed of natural resources?

That alien species would be the most irresponsible in the history of the Universe.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by tyranny22]

Originally posted by tauristercus
Stars that explode as supernova are massive and short lived, less than a million years. The amount of time required for a star to form out of an interstellar nebula is less than a million years.

Source: Stuart Ross Taylor, Solar System Evolution: A New Perspective, page 53

Touche my friend!

This I was unaware of. Thanks for the education. Obviously old Prof. Hawking omitted that rather important piece of information from his book.

I'll have a read of the Stuart Ross Taylor one that you reference above

Don't suppose you have a link to a free ebook version do you?