Fire Fighters For 9/11 Truth in San Leandro

It's from you conspiracy people to the fire fighters you're thoughtlessly slandering to advance your agenda to get people all paranoid over shadows.

The case in point is that I have not slandered anyone and yet you stand here directly accusing me of it without any evidence whatsoever.



[edit on 9-5-2010 by jprophet420]

Originally posted by jprophet420

The case in point is that I have not slandered anyone and yet you stand here directly accusing me of it without any evidence whatsoever.

Then please separate yourself from the people who ARE slandering the NYFD of complicity in committing murder, and renounce these conspiracy claims of controlled demolitions. If you are associated with one, then you are necessarily associated with both.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by jprophet420

The case in point is that I have not slandered anyone and yet you stand here directly accusing me of it without any evidence whatsoever.

Then please separate yourself from the people who ARE slandering the NYFD of complicity in committing murder, and renounce these conspiracy claims of controlled demolitions. If you are associated with one, then you are necessarily associated with both.

I do just that by not slandering the NYFD, or any other organization. At least we are now 100% certain that you are not interested in TRUTH, as you have accused me directly, failed to cite the incident, and then changed your accusation to "guilt by association".

I certainly will not renounce any claims until the investigation is complete. To do so would be ridiculous.

Beleive it or not but someone was offering up the NYFD as proof the towers were NOT pulled on another thread running on ATS.

I soon put him right but i don't think he will be coming along.

People say you could never have the towers pulled and get away with it !

I say they have not got away with anything so good luck to the people who attend and are trying to make a difrence.

9/11 and the current economic crisis is all connected and do remember that the day before the attack congress was told that $2.2tr was missing and hardly a dam word has been said since that day.

Join the dots and they all lead back to grandad Bush who was a war criminal and was convicted of trading with the enermy during WWII and yet managed to breed two presidents.

You real could not make any of this up.

There can only be two ways to look at people who deny the truth: Either they have a financial reason to do so, or a psychological one. There can be no other possibilities. There is sufficient evidence to prove to any rational and intelligent person that 9-11 was an inside job. vast evidence has been presented, overwhleming evidence, and to deny it is the very definition of dishonesty.

If a person says that the official story is true, despite all the facts, they MUST believe it, for reasons that only they know. Paid intel types that try and keep the uneducated on the ropes, or to dissuade them from studying the facts due to the silly bickering, are pro's and do it for money.

the other category are those people who are divided up into two groups: the first group MUST believe the official story because to not do so would undermine their foundational emotional basis to a degree that would cause them too much confusion and fear to accept and still function.

The other group is just an argumentative, irritating pain in the neck that just loves to argue..loves to take the stand that is against all sense, and really does not care one bit about the subject, only the attention gained by people reading and responding to them. in other words, they get a sense of satisfaction from attention and get more of it taking on impossible chores and clining to their ' belief' despite anything that proves them wrong.

these folks cannot be bothered with details and specifics, they will make blanket statements and then retreat when details are demanded. Sweeping generalities are their stock in trade and they will ignore any and all definitive proofs with a sneer. I is what I call ' obnoxious' stubborness.

Lets face it, we have more than enough prof, and more than enough witnesses and experts...all we lack is awareness on the part of the majority thanks to the media. Pain and simple. The best bet is to IGNORE the ones who insist on maintaining their empty basket of proof and silly assumptions and respond only to those who have a valid point.

reply to post by LieBuster

9/11 and the current economic crisis is all connected and do remember that the day before the attack congress was told that $2.2tr was missing and hardly a dam word has been said since that day.

And another shining example of the ignorance on the part of some.

The 2.2 trillion dollars you are referring to, was actually 2.3 trillion dollars, and it wasnt reported to Congress the day before the attack. It had been public knowledge since long before 9/11/01...since before Bush was President or Rumsfeld was the SecDef. What DID happen the day before was that Rumsfeld gave a speech in which he was the way in which the Pentagon kept track of inventory and transactions was antiquated and that there were at least a dozen different computer systems IN the Pentagon that were used for the job, and that most of them could not talk to one another.

It was never a "2.3 trillion dollars is suddenly missing" issue, it was an issue with the way the Pentagon kept track of things. And the issue didnt suddenly disappear either. Since 2002, the services have ALL been standardizing their systems and setting up secure worldwide networks to better keep track of things....of course that brings up another new set of problems but then, thats more for a "government waste" thread than a 9/11 thread.

reply to post by richierich

There can only be two ways to look at people who deny the truth: Either they have a financial reason to do so, or a psychological one. There can be no other possibilities. There is sufficient evidence to prove to any rational and intelligent person that 9-11 was an inside job. vast evidence has been presented, overwhleming evidence, and to deny it is the very definition of dishonesty.

Financial reason for denying the truth....sounds like an apt description of Richard Gage et al to me.

If you want to discuss the actual EVIDENCE, let us do so. But, let us stick to actual evidence and not internet rumor.

Originally posted by Stevo_Devo
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

Dave just Google your question for an answer, I did and found there are a number of NY FF that question 9/11

www.dailypaul.com...


your welcome buddy!

Your wasting your time buddy these head in the sand types won't look at the link and will have a metal block when it comes to the two NYFD offeicers say on live TV that they heard "Bang, Bang, Bang and then the building came down as if it had demolition charges inside" and we need to move on and push for a full public hearing that includes fire officers giving evidence without the threat or being sacked and pension being removed.

They went after the financial system and are going after it again so we are working against the clock and don't forget to take care of yourself and keep a little extra food put by just incase we get another sudden shock.

9/11 and the current economic crisis is all connected and do remember that the day before the attack congress was told that $2.2tr was missing and hardly a dam word has been said since that day.

They certainly are connected. 911 was construed as the perceived catalyst for the economic crash that was already happening.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Wow, I like the way you lump anyone with questions to the entire spectrum, fringe included, of conspiracy theories. No one here on this thread EVER said anything about Firemen dishonoring their brothers and categorizing them as murders! I haven't even seen any claims that firemen are part of a plot to keep some inside knowledge amongst themselves. I understand your frustration with all the hype involved with this subject, but now 1/3 of the country(100 million) people, many of whom are professionals in industries directly associated with the events, have more questions. Just because someone wants further investigation does NOT mean they believe ALL the elements and accusations brought forth. Some people just want a new investigation. Does not an event of such paramount nature deserve another investigation?
I understand your frustration with some of the claims involving this subject, but this thread was created, imo, to get some info from people that were there and see what, and if any consensus has been discussed. I haven't tuned into this subject for years because it is too much to handle sometimes, much less argue and fight with others. I was just curious about any new insight that may have arisen recently. Can you honestly say you personally have NO questions about the official story? If so, that is your right, but objectionably speaking, there seems to be enough questions and evidence(even speculative evidence deserves examination) to warrant further investigation to say the least.
Anyway, I'm not here to argue, but I feel personally attacked by you so I have said what I have for clarification on my part. Your stance reminds of those who say people are "unAmerican" for questioning their leaders....I disagree, respectfully.

*Addendum* I feel that the climate surrounding this issue is dangerous for questions, and one may be considered a Ter@^*+ST for commenting or questioning, which is why I gave this up years ago. I am abandoning this thread and hope that the truth, whatever it is, will become evident on it's own, like it usually does. I will keep my caring to myself I guess....
By the way, I love my Country and the people in it, and to the Firemen out there, blessings and thank you for your bravery, you guys are true American heroes and I will never forget it!!!!!



[edit on 9-5-2010 by speculativeoptimist]

reply to post by Stevo_Devo


Ask what made the towers explode since we know that there were no planes that hit them. ty

I'm proud of the firefighters who have had the courage to speak up about the things they saw that day, especially when it goes against conventional wisdom, since so many numbskulls are so convinced they already know everything that happened that more often than not they don't even want to hear what someone who was actually there has to say in the first place.

Someone should compile a list of all firefighters there that day who witnessed unexplained explosions or are otherwise speaking out about what happened. There are more than I can remember off the top of my head, but if the jthomas's of the world had it their way, we would forget about every last one of them.

Originally posted by warisover
reply to post by Stevo_Devo

 

Ask what made the towers explode since we know that there were no planes that hit them. ty

i'm happy to go head to head with a no-planer on this one if your talking about the twin towers but unlike the deniers i'll come back with lots of stuff to back my case up.

are you up for it dude and if so i'll let you shoot first.

Originally posted by jprophet420

I do just that by not slandering the NYFD, or any other organization. At least we are now 100% certain that you are not interested in TRUTH, as you have accused me directly, failed to cite the incident, and then changed your accusation to "guilt by association".

Pot calling the kettle black, anyone? You can play these "that's what I said but that's not what I said" games to your heart's content, but at the end of the day, BY THE VERY POSTS YOU CONSPIRACY PEOPLE ARE MAKING you are accusing the NYFD of involvement in controlled dmeolitions and of a cover up conspiracy. It is after all, you conspiracy people who are going around "exposing" this Silverstein quote claiming the NYFD ordered the controlled demolition of WTC 7:

"I remember getting a call from the fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."


One merely needs to do a simple search on "pull it" to prove that irrefutably. The NYFD ordering WTC 7 to be pulled by definition means they're the ones who got the controlled demolitions into the building, and by the very nature of their never coming forward and admitting they ordered controlled demolitions to be put in the building, by definition it means they're trying to cover it up. Your turning around and saying "you never accused the NYFD of conspiracy and cover ups" makes no sense even to a ten year old.

We both know you're not some mindless parrot blindly repeating what other people tell you, you're an intelligent human being capable of rational thought, so it's your responsibility to know what you're actually saying in your posts.



[edit on 10-5-2010 by GoodOlDave]

Originally posted by speculativeoptimist
Wow, I like the way you lump anyone with questions to the entire spectrum, fringe included, of conspiracy theories. No one here on this thread EVER said anything about Firemen dishonoring their brothers and categorizing them as murders! I haven't even seen any claims that firemen are part of a plot to keep some inside knowledge amongst themselves.

Would you mind terribly then explaining what your interpretation of Silverstein's "pull it" quote is, then? Here is it once more:

"I remember getting a call from the fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."

It is YOUR interpretation, not mine, that "pull it" means to "blow up a building with controlled demolitions" and not, "get the fire fighters out of the area", so by your own interpretation it necessarily means it was the NYFD who decided to blow up WTC 7 with demolitions...and since the NYFD is obviously not coming forward and admitting they blew up WTC 7, by definition it means they're covering it up. I invite you to explain how any of the above is incorrect.

If you want to wallow in these conspiracies that get everyone all paranoid over shadows, that's one thing, but don't gripe when your own careless words come back to haunt you.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Uumm, I'm not sure why you are attacking me and asking me why I support the "pull" phrase? I never siad anything about that! All I wanted to know was what was currently going on within that particular industry(firefighters) regarding the overall subject.
"It is your interpretation, not mine.." Please quit putting words in my mouth! I think you may be mixing up my post with someone else's. Again, I am not here to argue, merely inquire, and last time I checked, that was both okay and encouraged here at ats.

unbelievable........

the intent of this thread was two fold, the first was in ascertaining if anyone else from this site was going to, or has been to one of these seminars and the second was my review of said seminar.

it soon degraded into a hesaid/shesaid, grade school like name calling session that clearly shows whos who at this site.

in any adult discussion it's easy to pick out those who are trying to support their side when logic and fact are unavailable to them, they resort to name calling.

I'm not going to point my finger at them you only have to read the posts to know who they are.

If you have been to one of these seminars or have a specific question about what was said I will respond to you.

If you want to call me a "Thruther, Back Stabber, Lone Wolf or a Buyer of Snake Oil" please find another thread to spread your?......Ideology? on, as I will not respond to you here and you would only be wasting our time and ATS bandwidth.