Greece: Eurozone OKs $146 billion bailout!!! Finally

Loans, with aid of International Monetary Fund, spread across three years

BRUSSELS - Finance ministers from the 16 countries that use the euro agreed Sunday on a joint rescue plan for Greece with the International Monetary Fund that will loan the struggling country euro 110 billion ($146 billion) in loans over three years. The loan package is aimed at keeping heavily indebted Greece from defaulting and spreading its financial crisis to other countries in Europe with shaky finances such as Portugal and Spain.

In return, Greece had to agree to an austerity program that will impose painful spending cuts and tax increases on its people.

Source: www.msnbc.msn.com...

About time a plan was agreed to! I think the Greek Gov't had to let the people suffer a little to show them what was coming-meaning reduction in bennies and free stuff.

Hmmm, wonder when this will hap en in the good old USA?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/90efa431e07f.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 5/2/2010 by anon72]

The riots were just starting to slow down again... Here comes a huge wave of violence, strikes, civil unrest, etc. etc. Can't wait til this makes its way to the U.S.

I wonder how the people will take the tax increases and stagnate incomes with this bailout.

As history shows bailout and nothing but bs against the tax payer.

Although I can see being happy about reaching a deal, the deal itself just passes around more debt. Just as our own $800B stimulost package has been found to have not helped the economy or jobs, this will simply push back the inevitable.

I guess I consider this akin to taking out cash advances to pay the minimum on credit cards -- it only keeps you afloat for so long.

And I hope everybody realizes the method to paying off these debts:

Tax increases..

Is that the only method? No. But cutting government spending and eliminating programs takes a while from start to finish -- and even longer to see that money once again available in your budget.

Tax increases on the other hand can happen quickly and become a burden for the people much faster than government begins to get pinched. I would guess that the Greeks are pretty fed-up and when the tax increases hit, there will be an escalation in rioting.

I would be interested in hearing people's opinions that are actually in Greece and facing these increases.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
Although I can see being happy about reaching a deal, the deal itself just passes around more debt. Just as our own $800B stimulost package has been found to have not helped the economy or jobs, this will simply push back the inevitable.

I totally agree with this.
They are just prolonging
the inevitable.

It's akin to an old man
on his death bed
and them hooking up a
ventilator.

You have a dying man living
entirely on life support.
That puts the world in a state
of comatose.

greece is history, people are living hard has it is.
This wont help, remember things just got started.

They did not need such a harsh austerity package that crippled the working class. It was the rich who pillaged their country just like they are pillaging every other country then evading taxation.

What Greece should have done is raise the income taxes on those who make over $1,000,000 to 65%, imposed a sales tax of 25%, a corporate tax of 50% and a payroll tax of 10%. Then cut spending by 20%.

Pre-Paid
Pre-paid is very simple. The entire economy is pre-paid. Look at it this way: We have a car sitting on a dealer’s lot. You walk up to buy the car. Does the dealer ever tell you "I am glad you are going to buy this car because we have to find out how we are going to pay for this car to be built." No is the answer you would get, but that is exactly what they are doing when you go to the bank to get a loan. When do they ever build something and then talk about how they are going to finance it to be built. The product was paid for when the contract was put in place to collect the industrial recourses through the Army Corp of Engineers, EPA, DOT, and OSHA in Flint, Michigan to build it. Even more precisely, the item was paid for when the census did a per-capita poll to identify how much money those agencies should put into the economy based on our productivity, (unfortunately take a quick look at Marxism and Keynesian Economics to make a connection with your worth and your previous status). Now everybody with a head (per capita) raise your hand. Good they loaned against you to finance the operation, that is the "Principal Account." Making the item pre-paid for the acceptor. This is another reason why you are the principal. The principal reason you are Pre-Paid is because Christ's acceptance of the sins in the Garden of Gethsemane and His death on the cross, created the Pre-Payment of all your liabilities both temporal and spiritual because they are inseparable because I wasn't here two thousand years ago but My sins were pre-paid on the condition that I accept the Redeemer. You are the source of economic production being the principal and your interest accruing from you i.e. a per-capita census statistics was pledged as the collateral to be the sponsor of the monetary systems' credit. That is why when interest that accrues from the principal gets returned (tax returned) to the principal, there is a decrease in tax liability (a deduction). The vendor is paying his taxes to you. That is why it is a tax matter. Tax is just a return of the interest to the principal.

AND;

The Promissory Note To Pay Our Debts
HJR-192 of June 5, 1933 is the promissory note (the promise of Abraham) the government issued to balance the exchange to credit the people. The Promissory note is on the debit side of the United States Governments ledger, which was a debited from their credit, created by the Executive Order of April 5, 1933 when they took the gold out of circulation. Public Policy is rooted in HJR-192 and is Grace that creates our exemption. This is your temporal saving grace. Under grace, the law falls away to create a more perfect contract. Public Policy removed the people's liability to make all payments by making a contract null if it required the payment to be in substance, because the people didn't have any money to pay with. All that must be done now is to discharge the liability. Pay and discharge are similar words but the principles are as different as Old and New Testaments. The word "pay" is equated with gold and silver, or something of substance like a first-born lamb, which requires tangible work to be invested in it to remove the liability because an execution must occur. The word "Discharge" is equated with paper, or even more basic, simple credits and debits, that exist on paper only, like the slate held by the agents/angels of heaven that get swiped clean. You cannot pay a bill with a bill and you cannot pay a debt with a debt. What HJR-192 did was, remove the liability of an obligor (someone obligated to pay a debt) by making it against Public Policy to pay debts. All that needs to be done now is discharge the debit with an appropriate credit "dollar for dollar." Debt must be discharged dollar for dollar in the same sense, as sin was discharged on the Cross. The moment a debt exists, it must be written off. The catch is, we can't write off the debt because we are not in possession of the account in deficit; our fiduciary agent is in possession of the account so we must provide him with the tax return (by the return of the original offer) so the fiduciary can discharge the liability through their internal revenue service (the bookkeeper). Most feel that when the money was taken out of society, the people became the slaves, this is not true, the people were freed from every obligation that society could create thus freeing the people from any obligation which they may incur simply because we cannot pay a debt. Ask yourself the question, What are you charging me with? And how do you expect Me to pay? Simply said, there is no money, plain and simple for me to make the payment with and on top of that, if I were to pay, who is paying Me to pay that guy and who's paying that guy and so on... Public Policy is the supercedious bond because it limits our liability to pay. It is the more perfect contract because it operates on grace to pay our debts after we have done all that we can. We go as far as we can to fulfill the obligation (acceptance and tax return) and after we have done all we can, mercy and grace kick in being our exemption to make the payment. Grace creates our exemption in the industrial society so long as we accept the charge.

When will people get it? Because the governments around the world STOLE the gold and silver FROM the people, the entire economy is pre-paid. UNTIL they gives us back our gold and silver for the "currency" that TPTB mint and print, which is fake and has NO VALUE, then we just accept for value and return for discharge.

A "Vampire" is a metaphore for politicians who are sucking the "WILL" of the people from them. These politicians and world bankers have been stealing our wealth now for hundreds of years. When will the people wake up and put a stop to this fraud and deciet?

Greece needs no more money than the rest of us do. We simply accept for value, the thieves (Bilderbergs, Illuminati, Rothschilds and Co., etc.) must settle the debt they have bestowed upon us with their debt instruments, IOU's which THEY call money.

What is so hard to comprehend there?

[edit on 2-5-2010 by daddio]

this is BS! A biggest #ing scam i know, my country 'gives' almost 2 billion euros to Greece and our economy is in bad shape! Goddamn bastard politicians!

Just kick Greece out of monetary union & let it sort out problems by herself!

reply to post by raivo


Concur, kind of like a credit card. If you fault, you are suspened-in a few years, if you clear your act up we'll let you back in -temporarily that is.

I don't think the rest of the participating countries should have to save Greece if they aren't illing to save themselves. We shall see how serious the Greeks are if and when they start cutting back everything-as agreed to.

Greece should get their bailout from banks like Goldman Sachs, Hedge funds and other Capital Investment funds. .

This will cause disasters in the future and inflate the Euro.

there we go

greece will never be able to pay their loans back.

Seems the government folks had quite a business going there too, 13th and 14th months of pay, pension at age 52.

This is not good.

The dept will cause inflation of the euro.

If it gets payed anyway. Knowing the Greek and there tendency not to pay taxes ( almost everything is done without a receit, taxes )

They will only pay up at gun point or they will just give them the finger.

This could very well be the catalyst for the creation of a European army force. One that will get the money Robin hood's Sherif of Nottingham stile

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


That's what I am wondering. What are the mechanisms to get teh money back if Greece defaults? Who is left holdng the bag?

What is the collateral being put up-from Greece? Is there any being put up by Greece?

Originally posted by anon72
reply to post by Sinter Klaas

 

That's what I am wondering. What are the mechanisms to get teh money back if Greece defaults? Who is left holdng the bag?

What is the collateral being put up-from Greece? Is there any being put up by Greece?

the countries are guaranteeing the loans...which mean....surprise surprise..the central banks will get this money back no matter what...either the greeks will pay it back..or..the populations of the EU zone countries will pay it back in taxes..

the bankers..again..cant lose..

reply to post by anon72


I'm no expert so don't take my word on it.

I can share my thougts. lets see...

We know the Greek are lousy tax- payers.
They retire at 52 and have accomplished to get verry high social standards. Without paying all taxes.

They protest when they don't agree or feel mistreated.
Got them pretty far by the way.

The Euro-zone has an obligation to help them because if they let them perrish or kick them out they would no longer be a believeble nation.

Our money comes from state loans, no doubt . The whole of Europe has major dept and taxes rise. The loans will create more dept so more interest to the banks. who are already in a win-win situation. If the Greek won't pay. I think 2 things could happen.
Or the rest of Europe ends up paying or they are going in to retrieve the money. The money from the banks not being payed would not be a big problem since 90 % they give out doesn't even exist anyway. ( fractional banking ) and the rest of Europe will eventualy pay the bill.
Which has along the way caused massive amounts of interests.

So the People of Europe are screwed. A bit less if the Greek pay up.
Or the Greek get screwed even worse.

Banks will win anyway.

If it looks like rubbish ( what I wrote ) then it probably is.

god this # pisses me off! we taxpayers are taken for ride because big banks want their monies & corrupt politicians are jumping like monkeys up & down to help them by pouring €uros to Greece!

Originally posted by Misoir
They did not need such a harsh austerity package that crippled the working class. It was the rich who pillaged their country just like they are pillaging every other country then evading taxation.

What Greece should have done is raise the income taxes on those who make over $1,000,000 to 65%, imposed a sales tax of 25%, a corporate tax of 50% and a payroll tax of 10%. Then cut spending by 20%.

First, rich people don't just sit around and do nothing and be rich. They own businesses and employ working class people. Many rich people in an economy create working class jobs. You're villifying the rich simply because they have and make money. Do you honestly think the rich hoardes that money and stays rich that way without doing anything to make that money work for them?

If you raise taxes on the rich, who do you think that hike in taxes eventually comes to affect? The rich aren't going to stand by and take a hit to their quality of life. They are going to pass off the costs of such a tax hike to the working class either through job cuts, benefit cuts, pay cuts, higher prices on their goods and services, etc.

reply to post by sos37


True. Only the state raises taxes. the only thig any business does is letting pass it along until the person with the endproduct pays. That's it.

This scam should be rejected by the citizens of Greece. They should kick the IMF out, kick the EU vampires out, get rid of the Euro, dump the unions leaders, the commies, and socialists, and take back their country.

This loan is poison from the banksters and the elite. When has the IMF ever helped anyone? Never! They will utterly destroy your country.

Reject this poison.