How Unequal Are We? Redistribution of Wealth to the Rich

Well...I think it also a matter of personal responsibility too. The American people are inundated by Credit Card companies, the media, advertisers et al to get the American people's MONEY. Pay cash whenever you can. The wealthy are smart.............you know why?......look at most services you may have that required "monthly" billing....in other words, you are financing their wealth. My wife and I are on Dave Ramsey program and it works!!! We are eliminating 21k in debt this year alone....Proverbs eludes to , "The borrower is a slave to the lender". Personal debt is the killer folks.....quit keeping up with the Jones'.....

We should definatly take the money from the top earners, they don't deserve it. The top 1% paying 40% of the taxes isn't enough I WANT MORE! If we double their taxes then we can ALL be rich!!! Free money for everyone! Welcome to Utopia!!!

Awwww, I just got laid off because my boss can no longer afford me.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cf26687269ce.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 22-4-2010 by MysterE]

i work for a company that makes 20-50 million us dollars a year as per their website, its owned by less than 5 humans and has roughly 20-30 employees i made less than 27,000$ last year and about 20 of those employees didnt make more than 33k and i wont get into the tax situation, this is how america is run we are slaves who are told we arent. i hope that more people will realize this before the entire planet gets caught in this game too.

reply to post by MysterE


As Chomsky emphasizes democracies don't need to use force to control their citizens because democracy controls their minds! Ah the "Information society" -- brainwashing is beautiful!

answers.yahoo.com...

reply to post by David9176


Can you put up a chart showing productivity of each of these classes? Or hours worked? Or people employed? Or amount of charitable donations given? Didnt think so....

This is a great half story, with the OP's opinion then inserted as to reasoning. Sorry to say, but there are haves and have nots in society. No one is entitled to any sort of wealth or money in America, and if you think differently you have missed the point of America. All the US guarantees is an opportunity to make of your like what you want or can. Sadly, many don't do much with their lives and many, such as the OP, choose to shift the blame for this to the wealthy and of course those evil Conservatives. Here is some free advice; be accountable for your own life and stop blaming others. If you don't like your life you have no one to blame but yourself.

Originally posted by pryed -eyed-one
i work for a company that makes 20-50 million us dollars a year as per their website, its owned by less than 5 humans and has roughly 20-30 employees i made less than 27,000$ last year and about 20 of those employees didnt make more than 33k and i wont get into the tax situation, this is how america is run we are slaves who are told we arent. i hope that more people will realize this before the entire planet gets caught in this game too.

You are not a slave, you can walk away at anytime. Why are you working for a company that won't negotiate a better deal with you? What gifts do you have that you could turn into your own industry? I am sure you have obligations, and walking away from a secure job can be unsettling indeed, but then again...fortune favors the bold!

This is my main grief with our country. I am glad top see an income inequality thread again. Here is my input:
My conservative friend asked,

"as far as giving tax breaks to rich people.you ever got a job from a poor person?"

Have you ever gotten rich from a rich person? Your question was meant to imply that rich people create jobs, or "Trickle-down Economics". That concept has been proven a failure since it was conceived. The top .1% in America now own 49.6% of all the nations income according to a study done by UC Berkley. It has doubled since 2001. From 2002-2007 the top 1% captured two thirds of the economic growth. Think about that. The top 1% captured 66% of economic growth. Leaving the rest of us in the dust. Let's see how they "created jobs" with all the wealth they accumulated.

Since "trickle Down Economics was conceived in the early eighties, private sector job growth was at 31%. In 2001 the private sectors were creating only 23% of the jobs, by 2009, it is at 1.1%. But wait, I thought rich people create jobs. No, they don't. They took their tax breaks and kept all the money, all while saving a few more bucks by shipping American jobs overseas.

Want me to tell you where the job growth has been? The public sector. That's right, the government. While the private sectors job growth was at 1.1%, the government was at 2.4%. In the last 10 years manufacturing has shed 5.3 million jobs. They are the ones that make things. So, you see, numbers don't lie, and they don't care what party affiliation you have. They are just plain facts. See for yourself:

images.google.com...://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/economicsunbound/archives/longjobs1.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.businesswee k.com/the_thread/economicsunbound/archives/2009/06/a_lost_decade_f.html&usg=__Sk8cRlTEynGMHhN7WFCyrCdIN3E=&h=455&w=477&sz=9&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=i fRLCeUApvKADM:&tbnh=123&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3D10%2Byear%2Bjob%2Bgrowth%2Bstatistics%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26um%3D1

"how can you give a tax cut to someone that doesn't pay # for taxes anyway."

Again, I not sure where you are going with this. Perhaps you are trying to say either poor people, illegal immigrants, or tax evaders are getting tax cuts? Sounds to me like you worded a conservative hot topic and republican talking point wrong. It was supposed to say, "The rich are over taxed and carry too much of the tax burden." To that I say, let's take a walk in history. The 1950's were undoubtedly the best economic time America has ever seen. The GDP growth literally went off the chart. See for yourself: www.j-bradford-delong.net...

The tax rate for the top 1% between 1918-1921 stay above 73%. Then when it dropped to 25% in 1925 it help trigger The Great Depression. The tax rates for the super rich were raised again starting in 1932. And then between 1951-1963 at the height of America's greatest economic boom it was at 91%.

Then Reaganomics and conservatism were born in the 1984, but the rate stayed around 50% till 1986 when it began dropping. By the time G. W. Bush took office it was at 39.6%. He lowered it even more to 33%. Then Obama wants to raise it 2% to 35% and everyone wants to say he's redistributing wealth and call him a socialist. Do you see how ridiculous that is now? The redistribution of wealth definitely happened. It went to the top. And those people that yell socialism looked like what they are...stupid.

If you have been keeping up and looking at the data I'm presenting you then you saw the chart. Numbers don't lie, and that talking point about the rich peoples' tax burden is a dreamed up fallacy , and yet conservatives parrot it regularly, to get folks that don't know better to repeat it. Then they fooled poor people into protesting against rich peoples tax hikes. (Tea-baggers) That was sick. And those people looked like what they are...stupid. www.taxpolicycenter.org...


[edit on 22-4-2010 by 12GaugePermissionSlip]

reply to post by drew hempel


Yea, I completely agree. Propaganda is a far more powerful tool than even a standing army.


There's never going to be Fema camps, or some outright takeover, because we're already slaves. People are so misinformed that they fight to defend their slave masters -- like a dog protecting the man who keeps it on a leash all day.

S&F Dave,

I don't have time to add on after reading most of the posts, just another bump.
Now off to work, so I can give MY EARNINGS AWAY to people and places I do not want my money to go.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by 12GaugePermissionSlip


I agree with much of your sentiments. I once was had a job years ago where several of us, including the owner, were all eating lunch and yammering on, and a sort of bash the rich conversation came about. I stood up for the rich and suggested we don't thank them enough. Before I could complete my thought, (which was the rich start foundations and charitable organizations, they build museums and theaters, and maintain schools, and so on.), my boss piped in and asserted that the rich should be thanked because they provide jobs.

Without batting an eye, I said that the history books don't record those who provided jobs, and if he didn't feel he was getting an even exchange from his employees he should stop employing them, and since he hadn't started any foundation, built a museum, maintain a school, or contribute something truly great to the world, then why should anyone thank him?

That man hated me for the remainder of my employment with him, and in the end, his arrogance taught me much, and showed me how stupid I was for working for this clown or anyone else for that matter. Offering employment is not a charitable act and working the man ain't the American Dream. To be the man is the American Dream.

Originally posted by drew hempel
reply to post by MysterE

 

As Chomsky emphasizes democracies don't need to use force to control their citizens because democracy controls their minds! Ah the "Information society" -- brainwashing is beautiful!

answers.yahoo.com...

I thought we were argueing capitalism vs. socialism. What does democracy have to do with it?

P.S. America is a Republic

-E-

good post OP, I like to get your attention to this lecture video I saw few days back, it relates to exact same thing... inequality of wealth/class...

vimeo.com...

about 45min in he starts talking about classes and wealth, very interesting status!

Basically the banksters are the dominance factor in who stays rich and who stays poor, they dictate what class you and your future children will belong to and it will never change... sad... how we KNOW about this, yet we have NO choice but to support this evil system...

[edit on 22-4-2010 by freighttrain]

reply to post by MysterE


Ah the old "republic" versus the THREAT OF THE HOARDE!!

So you haven't read Chomsky's expose on the founding fathers of the "republic"???

Like James Jay -- even Madison -- basically we're talking banker aristocrats at the get go.

Republic? What about Shay's Rebellion? At the get go the democratic masses were against their productive labor being stolen for the rich.

Excellent thread OP!!

Reminded me of another graphic I recently saw from an article called "Plutocracy Reborn" in The Nation.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9ba5396e05e1.jpg[/atsimg]
files.abovetopsecret.com...



Here are some more graphics on the ludicrous wealth gap we face:

ecolocalizer.com...

SOCIALISM MY ASS!

I will once again advocate watching Capitalism a Love Story.
A very good movie describing how the American worker has been brought down to his knees by GREED.

I have found it really difficult reading this thread.

We've the poor complaining of what they haven't and the rich complaining that they pay more than their fair share for the benefit of the poor.

It is unfortunately a little of both.

But the difference is, in our system of capitalism, it isn't what you earn and pay in taxes, it is what you KEEP.

As exemplified by the poster who stated the facts that at earning half a million , he had most of his tax payments returned.

Why ?
Because he is an employer and not an employee.

And that is where the slope of fairness becomes more slanted towards the benefits of the HAVES vs those of the Have Nots.

We all know that the majority of our lawmakers, Senators and as well as many of those in the House of Representatives are themselves Millionaires.

They create our laws, laws to maintain and perpetuate their own, as well as their peers wealth.

This is YOUR clue.

For it is really a simple matter of those that know how to play the game to get ahead and those not knowing how to play the game that end up being left behind financially.

This only results in those not understanding the game keeping less of what they earn and paying more than their share in income taxes.

For Starters:

I have a question pertaining to all ATS members here that owns a computer.

So unless you are using a public library computer or a friends, this very well might be applicable to you.

How many of you have utilized your (2009) or past year Section 179 Deduction ?

Allowing you to write off the entire purchased price/value of your Computer, Monitor and Printer ?

Do you realize that using your computer for filling out your taxes is considered a fair and IRS approved business use ?

Did you realize that researching tax laws/codes on line is also considered a fair business use of your computer ?

Hypothetically, you could work on your taxes and/or research tax laws daily.


The amount you paid for the entire system can be deducted from your Gross Income for the claimed tax year.

Or amortized, over 5 years.

I am merely posting this out as an example of how our system works towards the benefit of some, who capitalize upon the system of laws for the wealthy.

As well as hopefully for the informational benefit of many of those who currently do not.

Live long and Prosper !

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


....and one more thing, 'have you ever gotten a job from a poor person?'

Yes, Several. I got a job as a weed wacker from a man who owned a lawn care business. We shared the duties, used his equipment, and split the money 65-35%. He made around 25,000 I made 15,000. We were both far from being rich.
I got a job working as a painter's helper making 5.00hr. His van rarely got us to a job without breaking down.
I was hired by a man who a owned a carpet cleaning business. I would guess he made around 50 to 60K a year. Again, not rich.
I got a job in construction from a contractor. He paid me cash. Not a rich man. And so on, and so on. Rich people don't "create jobs", they recruit slaves.

And this grinds me too. In japan the highest paid employee earns 1500% that of the lowest paid. In Germany it's 1600%. In USA............31,900%!!!

Another picture conservatives try to paint is the rich are hard workers and the poor are lazy bums looking for a hand out. Last I checked, it was the guy hauling concrete blocks or digging a ditch that busted a good sweat, NOT the sharp dressed man who shines a seat with his ass.

I'll tell you what the problem is. The problem is people relying on the government to make their lives happy. The problem is society relying on the government to make things right when the responsibility lies on our hands. The responsibility of generosity and bringing hope to others is ours. The responsibility to serve those less fortunate around us and share with them some of our "overflow" is ours. We have become greedy, self-centered people who care only about being ahead of other people rather than for other people. No wonder we see this disparity when someone will step all over another person for a few extra bucks. Sorry, the government can't legilate wealth, success, and hapiness into our lives. We need to freaking wake up and realize our responsibility; our own PERSONAL responsibility.

Sorry, i learned long ago that happiness isn't based on material. I can go to Haiti as I did several years ago. I can see people who have the exact same level of hapiness that I possess even though they have less than 1% materially of what i have.

When I didn't have what I have now I remember enjoying the opportunity to go out to eat once a month if I was lucky. I remember savoring every bite and finding great hapiness and joy in the experience. Now, I notice when I go out to eat it's not very gratifying to me anymore because I do it more often.

Right now the people complaining about their situation are sitting at home watching hours of television each night. They are neglecting their family and neighbors. They could care less about their community and finding ways to bring joy into people's lives. Beer, television programs, World of Warcraft, the new car, sex......all takes priority over others.

The key is simply family, community, friends, service, care. I'm going to go mow someone's yard, purposely approach someone walking down my street just to have a friendly conversation, go watch a sports game of some of the kids in the local school, sit down and eat a nice, long meal with my family, give a guy a ride who doesn't own a car, appreciate the beautiful day, be thankful for everything i do have, ........... who's with me?

Greed is what drives a consumer based society.......Greed is the problem........If we don't take care of greed no matter what legislation we see, the problem will never go away.

Originally posted by pryed -eyed-one
i work for a company that makes 20-50 million us dollars a year as per their website, its owned by less than 5 humans and has roughly 20-30 employees i made less than 27,000$ last year and about 20 of those employees didnt make more than 33k and i wont get into the tax situation, this is how america is run we are slaves who are told we arent. i hope that more people will realize this before the entire planet gets caught in this game too.

No offense, but when employees are paid that amount, it means that their are in a non-critical job that can be easily replaced. Thats nothing against you, but thats what that pay grade is for. If you want to make more money, change careers, or go back to school or get additional certifications to make yourself more valuable. But to state how much money the company makes, and somehow infer that you are therefore entitled to more money because of that is absurd.

reply to post by dolphinfan


Your post is right on. One of the more intelligent I've seen in these forums.
A veritable treatise in common sense, critical thinking and keen observation.

reply to post by drew hempel


Honestly, I'm not sure if were talking about the same thing. The OP says "Redistribution of wealth to the rich". But this is a fundamentally wrong. If anything the Rich are EARNING to much. The only redistribuition taking place is from the rich to the poor in the form ot taxes/social services. Did you not see the above chart that showed some 32% DID NOT PAY ANY TAXES. Do you think this was the upper wage EARNERS? No, this was the lower.

Tell me, why should we punish the top earners (more) for being extremely productive?

-E-

[edit on 22-4-2010 by MysterE]