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Marine's anti-Obama Facebook comments fuel debate

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posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 11:25 AM
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Marine's anti-Obama Facebook comments fuel debate


news.yahoo.com

SAN DIEGO – A Camp Pendleton Marine has removed his Facebook page after his comments fueled a free-speech debate about whether troops are allowed to criticize President Barack Obama's policies while serving in the military.

Sgt. Gary Stein said he was asked by his superiors to review the Pentagon's directive on political activities after he criticized Obama's health care reform efforts and then was asked this week to talk about his views on the MSNBC cable TV channel.

Stein said his supervisor told him of his right to an attorney about the matter. He said he decided to close his Fac
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 11:25 AM
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hes obviously afraid of the gov't maybe some agents had a little "chit chat" maybe a little "you are too close to the truth" or "we will kill your loved ones if you dont stop"
thats my take on it any way
waht is happening when we are not aloud to critisize our own gov't didnt we fight a war with tyrants a few hundred years ago over this very thing? and another thing thats unrelated whats this gun control #? i believe in a littl gun conrol but not to where no one cane have a gun i just want to see a screening process and maybe an iq test
didnt the founding fathers basically say here are your guns and if we[the gov't] # up you can take care of it it?

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 11:27 AM
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heres the rest of the article because i doubt you want to open another link so just read iat here

Stein said his supervisor told him of his right to an attorney about the matter. He said he decided to close his Facebook page and review his military code obligations. He also contacted private attorneys who told him he had done nothing wrong.

"There's this illusion that when we sign our contract and voluntarily commit, that we lose our right to speak out," Stein told the San Diego Union-Tribune in a story published Wednesday.

The local American Civil Liberties Union said in a statement Wednesday that it has sent a letter to Camp Pendleton's commanding officer urging the Marine Corps to protect Stein's right to freedom of speech.

Camp Pendleton spokeswoman Maj. Gabrielle Chapin said the Marine Corps is not considering filing charges and simply wanted him to be aware of the rules so he did not break them.

The Pentagon's directive states that military personnel are not allowed to write anything to solicit votes for a political cause, sponsor a political club or speak before any gathering that promotes a political movement.

"Marines take care of Marines," Chapin wrote in an e-mail. "Sergeant Stein's supervisor was concerned that his activities could give the appearance or impression that the Marine Corps is endorsing the group and its messages."

Stein, 24, a meteorologist for the base's 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, said it was ire over Obama's health care reform efforts that pushed him to launch the Facebook page, "Armed Forces Tea Party Patriots," three weeks ago.

The tea party is a grass-roots political phenomenon that supports lower taxes and less government involvement. It formed in part as a reaction to public bailouts of the banking and automotive industries. The recently passed health care law is another popular target of the movement.

Stein, who lives in Temecula with his wife and their 2-year-old daughter, said he has not commented on military matters on any social-network site.

News of the military's response to his comments sparked an intense debate among Stein's more than 400 Facebook "fans" about whether troops have the right to speak out about the policies of their commander in chief.

Former Marine Corps attorney Patrick Callahan, who now specializes in military law as a civilian lawyer in Texas, said the Pentagon's directive is aimed at preventing military members from appearing as if they are trying to thwart the public process or plot a coup.

"There are restrictions on time, place and manner. For instance, service members can't go to political rallies in uniform," Callahan said.

But he added: "I have never seen the military go after a junior service member for making disparaging remarks about any politician."

___

Information from: The San Diego Union-Tribune.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 11:30 AM
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I don't see how this is any different than any one of us getting busted by our employers for posting negative/derogatory remarks, or fueling the perception of negative influence towards business or place of employment. People are getting fired for this all the time. What's the difference if the military does it, too? More importantly, why is it a surprise?
_______________________
ETA:
Not to mention that many places have a clause that must be signed at employment that outlines the views on when/how social activism becomes inconsistent with purposeful employment - another words, it should not be a conflict of interest and if it is, employee may be up for some sort of warning/censure/termination. Pretty standard.



[edit on 15-4-2010 by LadySkadi]



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by LadySkadi
I don't see how this is any different than any one of us getting busted by our employers for posting negative/derogatory remarks, or fueling the perception of negative influence towards business or place of employment. People are getting fired for this all the time. What's the difference if the military does it, too? More importantly, why is it a surprise?


just because lol

but seriously the marine chose to remove the facebook acount isnt that suspicious i mean he was and probably still is a tea party member
and i would think most tea party members are very zealous when it comes to healthcare so i ask you have the choice, then why not keep it up? they cant kick you out of the military because of your opinion can they?



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by LadySkadi
I don't see how this is any different than any one of us getting busted by our employers for posting negative/derogatory remarks, or fueling the perception of negative influence towards business or place of employment. People are getting fired for this all the time. What's the difference if the military does it, too? More importantly, why is it a surprise?




do your employers engage in illegal activities?
how many people have your employers murdered?

you don't see the difference?
wow, I think you didn't want to see a difference

is the president commander and chief or a dictatorship?
simple question

thx



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by ashanu90
 


No, it's not really suspicious. Sorry, added my ETA a little too late, but I just mentioned the part about political/social activism being inconsistent with place of business and the trouble that may cause if one chooses to do so, regardless.


they cant kick you out of the military because of your opinion can they?

I have no idea if they can "kick you out" but I'm sure they can consequence for it, if it's deemed appropriately necessary... again, same as in any other place of employment.

reply to post by ModernAcademia
 

Dude, I'm not going there with you.
Political/social activism at the expense of place of employment is potentially detrimental to said employment. Military, civilian or other... Seriously, this is not new.




[edit on 15-4-2010 by LadySkadi]



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by LadySkadi
Dude, I'm not going there with you.
Political/social activism at the expense of place of employment is potentially detrimental to said employment. Military, civilian or other... Seriously, this is not new.


No political/social activism at the expense of the country is very much detrimental to said country.

You don't have to 'go' there
but I just had to say it

this not being new or old is completely irrelevant
nehow, just my 2 cents



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by ashanu90


hes obviously afraid of the gov't maybe some agents had a little "chit chat" maybe a little "you are too close to the truth" or "we will kill your loved ones if you dont stop"



How is he "obviously" afraid? He took the page down at his own discretion because he did not expect a huge debate to come from it.

And of course his superior(s) got in contact with him. It's the same if you trashed your place of work and your boss on facebook, and then they find out.

PS. Don't use Hollywood as a method of rationalizing.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 

"Not going there" was in reference to the "illegal" or "murder" tags you threw out.

To the point of the OP - political and social activism is a choice. Some consider it a calling. Fine. We need those people and I support that. Just remember, that there are always consequences to one's choices (good, bad, neutral) and that is my point. Make your choice. Stand by your beliefs. Realize that they have consequences.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:05 PM
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The bottom line is, if a Marine is an American Citizen then he has the right to free speech. There is no other way to look at it. I think this should especially apply to servicemen because it is their job to protect those rights and freedoms (supposedly).

Free speech shall not be infringed, no matter your position.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by BoSock
 


hollywood isnt my only rationalizing if you waatch the history channel when they have interviews with ex area 51 operatives or ex government agents or people who are gennerally to smart for their own good this sort of thing will pop up



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:11 PM
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one sure way to get fired is tell your boss he sucks. YOUR FIRED~!
it works the same way in the military - only they can lock your butt
up and feed you bread and water for up to 3 days at a time. these
people dont play at all. it works or its jetisoned.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by Anti-Evil
in the military - only they can lock your butt
up and feed you bread and water for up to 3 days at a time. these
people dont play at all. it works or its jetisoned.


they can do that??? just for your opinion??



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:22 PM
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Type " Lazy Ramadi " on youtube.

What you'll see is two marines doing a funny song about their involvement in the war in Iraq.
When the video became a web-phenom, they were pulled out of active duty and started doing TV interviews...

Made me think about that movie from Clint Eastwood about the guys with the US flag at Iwo Jima.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by DaMod
The bottom line is, if a Marine is an American Citizen then he has the right to free speech. There is no other way to look at it. I think this should especially apply to servicemen because it is their job to protect those rights and freedoms (supposedly).

Free speech shall not be infringed, no matter your position.


Being in the military means making sacrifices, including your ability to engage in political activism. Why? Here's why:

The U.S. military cultivates and reinforces a culture of political neutrality (at least outwardly). This is to ensure that the public at large never has to fear the threat of a military coup, or the vast military throwing it's political support to one political party. Our founding fathers consistently warned against this, and dreaded the idea of a large standing army because of it. Fortunately, we have been able to successfully run our federal government without worrying about the military with a pretty good record of success for a long time.

Brash, vociferous political activism on the part of active duty military members, especially if they are in uniform, detracts from the military's desire to remain politically neutral, and nothing more than a tool of the US civilian leadership.

Once you get out....then you can join the the Tea Party, the ACLU, or whatever floats your boat. But while you are in, keep your mouth shut and follow your orders.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by Pyros

Originally posted by DaMod
The bottom line is, if a Marine is an American Citizen then he has the right to free speech. There is no other way to look at it. I think this should especially apply to servicemen because it is their job to protect those rights and freedoms (supposedly).

Free speech shall not be infringed, no matter your position.


Being in the military means making sacrifices, including your ability to engage in political activism. Why? Here's why:

The U.S. military cultivates and reinforces a culture of political neutrality (at least outwardly). This is to ensure that the public at large never has to fear the threat of a military coup, or the vast military throwing it's political support to one political party. Our founding fathers consistently warned against this, and dreaded the idea of a large standing army because of it. Fortunately, we have been able to successfully run our federal government without worrying about the military with a pretty good record of success for a long time.

Brash, vociferous political activism on the part of active duty military members, especially if they are in uniform, detracts from the military's desire to remain politically neutral, and nothing more than a tool of the US civilian leadership.

Once you get out....then you can join the the Tea Party, the ACLU, or whatever floats your boat. But while you are in, keep your mouth shut and follow your orders.


Military or not, people are going to have an opinion. I have many friends that are Marines (god bless) and they all have opinions. Because of this there will never be such thing as a politically neutral military.

The Military is a tool of Fat Cat leadership under the guise of civilian leadership. I don't hold that against them though. They are good men, and are really just doing the best they can. Just because I don't support the cause doesn't mean I don't support the men at arms. (which I have been accused of before).


[edit on 15-4-2010 by DaMod]



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by ashanu90

Originally posted by Anti-Evil
in the military - only they can lock your butt
up and feed you bread and water for up to 3 days at a time. these
people dont play at all. it works or its jetisoned.


they can do that??? just for your opinion??


contrary to popyular opinion, once you enlist in the US military, as soon as you sign your contract, you effectively become government property. Case in point, a private from another platoon in my company got pissed off at a squad leader and punched a wall. He was article 15'd, court martialed and sentenced to 60 days for destruction of government property before being dishonorably discharged. wanna know what he broke? when he punched the wall he broke his hand. You can not do and say whatever you want in the military. the constitution does not cover you while you are on active duty. this is why we have the UCMJ and military trials not civil/criminal trials for armed forces personell.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by Anti-Evil
 


but i think this was only over healthcare not the military itself so why remove the facebook?



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by ashanu90
reply to post by Anti-Evil
 


but i think this was only over healthcare not the military itself so why remove the facebook?


Because he didn't expect what he'd say to get blown out of proportion. But look what's happened.

[edit on 15-4-2010 by BoSock]



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