Why the Universe may be a Computer afterall: Genetic Algorithms, Cellular Automata, and Rule 110

Now this did strike me as an oddity; the site told me I exceeded its 4 hour limit to edit, but as at least I can clearly see the first this morning was at 0600, the second at 0819.

That's quite a bit under 4 hours unless there's some fuzzy math going on here.

Possibly others are seeing a different time differential, or could posting times here be altered?

Could that have somehow been conspiratorial in nature, or merely a malfunctioning timing device??

Maybe ideas for new threads here anyone?

reply to post by Communicater


The way I see it,, in terms of trying to describe the unconscious intelligence, Is like this-

Slime Mold: the plant that solved a Maze



Unconscious slime mold solving a maze. unfortunately I cant seem to find the high quality one that Ive seen in a science special, but this will suffice. As you can see, the slime mold basically tries out every possibility. And out of them all, one HAD to work. Although I will say, It would be cool one of these times to see the slime mold attempt to grow over a wall/barrier. Now that would seem like some real intelligence!

What sayeth you?

reply to post by VonDoomen

I stopped the action near the end, and it appears to be climbing over the structure in several locations. Perhaps more slowly from the apex because it can sense there is a drop-off below.

edit on 19-4-2011 by Communicater because: correction

reply to post by Communicater


It may only be considered a two dimensional life form, but in my estimation it definitely is alive with some level of comprehension of its surroundings...

Continuing with the asynchronous nature of this conversation... that computer graphic illustration really makes me think...

Unity, in the white sector, stateless, perfect awareness?, loss of subjectivity; dimensionless; no sense of time;

Duality, the exact moment when the white sector meets the black line; the processing of inversion, or as Stevie Wonder might call it : Innervision.

Multiplicity, beyond this line are triangles of complexity; correlations of pixels of information; dimensions;

There appears to be a stream of triangles going in another direction. I'm thinking in the direction of choice, cause & effect and determination. Who will decide if the triangles are going away from the duality or if the triangles are moving toward the duality?

Only the triangle itself knows the answers :!

Great thread, I plan to read more into it. Makes you wonder, why humans have taken such a like for the digital world...the Internet and the meta verses contained within it(ATS as one), almost as if it makes our brains feel secure.

Originally posted by VonDoomen


-The singularity is near, Ray Kurzweil

I'm reading this book now! Clearly you have too...

Pretty amazing idea of what the future holds. AI is coming and will be the next step in our evolution. It makes a lot of sense

reply to post by dreamingawake


Thank you. I think due to the sudden resurgence of this topic I may rewrite and update it in a new thread soon.

I will try to make it more understandable for people!

reply to post by PhotonEffect


Yes his books and ideas are amazing. While most are currently theoretical, due to moors law you can plan and research far ahead of time specific technologies. you just need to have a good guess of how much processing power it would take (economically) and then shoot for the corresponding dates.

Originally posted by VonDoomen

"To appreciate the feasibility of computing with almost no energy or heat, lets consider the computation that takes place in any ordinary rock. Although it may appear that nothing much is going on inside a rock, the approximately 10^25 (ten trillion trillion) atoms in a kilogram of matter are actualy extremely active. Despite its apparent solidarity, the atoms are all in motion, sharing electrons, changing particle spins, and generating rapidly moving electromagnetic fields. all of this activity represents computation, though not MEANINGFULLY organized
In terms of computation, and just considering the electromagnetic interactions of a 1 kilogram rock, there are atleast 10^15 changes in state per bit per second, which represents about 10^42 (million trillion trillion trillion) calculations per second. YET THE ROCK REQUIRES NO ENERGY INPUT AND GENERATES NO APPRECIABLE HEAT -Singularity is near"

VonDoomen - Above is one of your replies
I see where you are coming from but I have always thought of it like this

The atoms and everything that make up atoms are actually part of the program and as such actively generate the program. That's why its hard maybe imposable to unify them with the real world.

Also I think most of us have experienced feedback most computers and simulations need that. Feedback for us my be something as simple as "well I was only thinking about that the other day and its actually happened" there are many many variations to feedback.

I suppose what I am trying to say is (referencing your text above) ; yes computing the above would appear impossible unless the very substance that makes up everything is part of the simulation. And if it is then feedback would be easy and the butterfly effect would certainly make sense.

I'll break there for comments.
Cheers
MJ2

reply to post by majestictwo


I agree with you majestic. The software and hardware are merged in a sense. It seems to me as if reality is constantly computing itself into physical existence from an even deeper level. And for clarification, what I posted above is trying to theorize the maximum computational ability of matter in our universe based off certain constants and attributes we understand about particles. We are a far ways away from reaching this ability, yet, according to our known laws of physics, what i described above is allowable. however, we need to come up with the hardware, that is what determines its plausibility. Onces we have computers that strong, we maybe be able to come up with solutions for even stronger computation.

I think there is a level of reality deeper than we cant probe with our physical instruments. To me its atkin to trying to understand a microscope, while only being able to see it underneath another microscope. What if there is matter that supersecedes our understanding of Planks constant (how small something could possible be) or the constant speed of light? It would be hard to detect stuff outside of this realm, only using materials inside of this realm. But if that is the case, we could expect to see another quantum leap in computing!

Originally posted by VonDoomen
reply to post by majestictwo

 

I think there is a level of reality deeper than we cant probe with our physical instruments. To me its atkin to trying to understand a microscope, while only being able to see it underneath another microscope. What if there is matter that supersecedes our understanding of Planks constant (how small something could possible be) or the constant speed of light? It would be hard to detect stuff outside of this realm, only using materials inside of this realm. But if that is the case, we could expect to see another quantum leap in computing!

I agree Von Doomen; if one could perceive a single drop of water on say a countertop containing vast worlds/galaxies/universes hidden from our view or perspective; you might say we have a very limited view of what reality actually is.

Using a microscope in a much much higher magnification than is known to exist if you started to look at a solid object within that droplet, and as magnification increased you would begin to see holes in an apparent solid object/ or a multitude of solid objects perceived...as magnification increased the holes would continue to enlarge until any known thing could pass through them without touching the apparent sides of the hole.

Perhaps the lesson concerns "the right of passage" through one of those gigantically enlarged holes, and perhaps our perceptions or indoctrinations from childhood are what keep us from that passing beyond "our current reality".

That would incur the "thought" that belief in our ability to do anything we want is "held back by by ourselves" not believing we can do that particular thing.

That brings up a question in my thought patterns...how would we not only gain that belief in ourselves, but in addition help others find that belief within themselves to strengthen every one of us to achieve that goal of freedom beyond our current stay on the grid/matrix?

Let's say I have a hunch it has to do with frequency, or frequency harmonics, sub-harmonics, or multi-harmonics; but how do you break the bounds of current frequency-levels...thought alignment?

Returning to that original drop of water on a countertop; would that not mean that in "time" (or our peception of the passage of time) that drop and every thing perceived/or unperceived would collapse and not be destroyed, but in actuality raise its entire frequency within a relatively short period of time?

The perception being water appears to dry up, since it is no longer within our visible range on the counter.

That was something I was pondering last night and didn't find a good answer for....................................

reply to post by VonDoomen


I see that you've made this post in 2010, and it resurfaced only a couple of days ago. Please, please, please take a look at the thread in my signature titled "Secrets of our Universe and Existence Unraveled".

I feel that I accidentally stumbled onto something very interesting, and in a big way it relates to this thread you authored. The similarity is actually quite striking aside from the fact that you're talking science and theory while my encounter with this idea is a more ... ummm... I guess you could say 'spiritual' kind. I don't know what to think of it, all I know is that post-experience I keep bumping into science, mathematics and physics that (in a way) echo my experience. I don't know how to take it and what to believe, all I can do is marvel at the coincidence. The idea is relatively new to me and came as a complete surprise. I'd appreciate your feedback either in this thread, in that one, or via U2U. Whatever is more convenient, I suppose.

P.S. Since I can't edit my original post anymore, I can't add or correct a couple minor things within it. Something I feel I may not have explained thoroughly enough (although I do briefly mention it) is the fact that the entire 'physical' universe is a mathematical illusion. It is perfectly formed (rules of physics, etc.) to fool us into believing in the physical. Everything is actually composed of these mathematics, fractals,... and it feels so incredibly real that it's difficult to imagine being anything else but physical. I am only able to do that now because I felt and experienced it. It's almost impossible to imagine without that experience. Even for me at this time, as I type on my computer or touch the desk I marvel at how difficult it would be to picture all this physical matter as nothing more than a conscious 'thought' created/generated by a higher consciousness. We/IT basically limited itself/us, broke itself down into tiny little pieces (us) to explore and learn from itself. It's just so difficult for me to put it all into words.

Well guys – reading all the last posts you have to agree that most here believe that there is something much more complicated than meets our eyes.

2manyquestions, your mathematical universe is something that is no doubt being investigated more. If you are not aware of self organisation you might like to google some papers or check out a horizon documentary called “the secret life of chaos”

the secret life of chaos

This is a clip only it would be better to watch the 1hr long episode.

You say its difficult to picture all this physical matter as nothing more than a conscious thought. Personally I think it is all matter (admittedly there is not much of it everything is basically empty space) partly self organising this cuts down the computing power needed. Then there are higher feedback instructions this is feedbacks from you and I and everything else in our world that we experience. We would have to assume there would be a general core that implements advancement rather than stagnation.

reply to post by majestictwo


Thank you for the reply. I will definitely look into this, and will be watching the full episode as soon as I have the opportunity.
In the end it's all just theories, educated guesses and maybe a dash of imagination.

reply to post by 2manyquestions


It hard to read these stories since they are such a "you had to of been there" event.
However I agree with some of the stuff I remember.

it feels as if-

at first consciousness was complete and alone. It got bored/lonely so it decided to create a universe. it then shattered into billions of pieces or (souls). The universe/life is really just a game to pass time. We choose to forget to keep the experience as real as possible. Through this we game a better understanding of ourselves (the creator).
and in the end, even a game is better than nothing!

reply to post by VonDoomen


A funny thing about this post is how it almost mirrors what David Icke says for the most part, only in an infinitely more logical way than he would usually put it ("They're Reptiles, mate!" ). The theory that all of existence is the result of a vibrational pulse is almost feasible with this information at hand, as every frequency of a Sine wave can be described in binary code. Very interesting post. You seem to have broken my researching "plateau" that I've been stuck on for a while.

reply to post by VonDoomen


Time for mass-speculation lol. What if before the point that this being got lonely and fractured some infinite consciousness into tiny little "bubbles of existence," we were in our natural state and maybe even of a sentient/conscious nature. If we really have chosen to forget, than it's possible that we are based in infinite consciousness, a la Icke. I mean, even Bill Hicks has said things to the tune of "We are all just a slow vibrational pulse manifesting itself as consciousness that experiences itself subjectively." Something tells me that man was far more than a comedian. It was said in a documentary he wanted to be Christ at his most furious, like the whole "This is my father's house and you've turned it into a den of thieves!" bit, but I digress. It's funny how your post basically lines up the musings of all of the infuential figures in my life at this point and points credibility to them, but also to you as well. Keep that thinker chugging away and I'm sure you'll go far (depending how deep into the rabbit hole you want to go lol).

I have to admit to not reading most of what the op posted due to my not knowing the first thing about computers, and I'm not trying to be a smart ass by asking the following questions...
If the universe is indeed a computer, who or what is operating it, and what would happen should they decide to turn it off then re-start it?
Excuse my ignorance on the subject, and for asking what must seem to you other posters, a couple of stupid questions.