Are These Photos of Chemtrails or Contrails?

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by greeneyedleo

 

How are we SUPPOSED TO GET 'untainted' samples???
I'd LOVE to do that!

I dont know. But until someone does - to claim they are something you have no proof of (which there is no proof of it), makes no sense.


[edit on April 12th 2010 by greeneyedleo]

New Jersey today

reply to post by OpTiMuS_PrImE


New Jerseys upper air data for today....very cold and moist indeed

300.0 9130 -52.5 -59.5 42 0.04 310 76 311.2 311.4 311.2
299.4 9144 -52.6 -59.6 42 0.04 310 77 311.3 311.5 311.3
280.0 9573 -54.9 -61.9 42 0.03 310 88 314.0 314.1 314.0
279.0 9596 -55.1 -62.1 41 0.03 310 89 314.0 314.2 314.1
272.1 9754 -56.4 -63.4 41 0.03 310 89 314.4 314.6 314.4
262.0 9995 -58.3 -65.3 40 0.02 314 87 315.0 315.1 315.0
259.4 10058 -58.6 -65.6 40 0.02 315 86 315.5 315.6 315.5
258.0 10092 -58.7 -65.7 40 0.02 315 82 315.8 315.9 315.8
250.0 10290 -57.3 -64.3 41 0.03 310 73 320.8 320.9 320.8
241.0 10522 -55.9 -63.9 36 0.03 303 61 326.2 326.4 326.2
225.0 10959 -56.3 -64.3 36 0.03 290 40 332.1 332.2 332.1
224.5 10973 -56.2 -64.3 36 0.03 290 39 332.4 332.6 332.4
218.0 11160 -55.1 -64.1 32 0.03 284 42 336.9 337.1 337.0
214.0 11278 -56.3 -65.3 31 0.03 280 44 336.9 337.0 336.9

Originally posted by Goethe
...A contrail, which I have imaged extensively, always leaves. Ive never seen one disperse and spread out to form a cloud like substance.

The chemtrails I have shot, also extensively alwasy remain for hours and disperse into clouds. More of a milky haze....

What you haven't told me is why you think one is NOT a chemtrail and one IS a chemtrail.

Again, all you have said is that trails come in at least two types -- short-lived ones and persistent/spread-out ones.

Originally posted by Goethe
...Ill believe my own eyes any day of the week thank you.

I'm not doubting that trails can differ in appearance, so I believe your own eyes, also (i.e., I believe that you are seeing trails that have a different appearance). I get that trails can look different, but please explain what makes you say that the difference in appearance means that one of them is a chemtrail.

It is a known fact that contrails can be persistent and spread out. Persistent/spread out contrails have been around as long a contrails have been around -- since the late 1930s. So WHY do you think the persistent spread-out trails YOU see are something other than regular contrails?



[edit on 4/12/2010 by Soylent Green Is People]

reply to post by greeneyedleo


You know, I don't believe in the 'chemtrail' nonsense going around YouTube these days. Still, I think odd-looking stuff is going on. I watched a contrail forming off of a high-altitude jet carefully through a set of 10 x 50 binoculars today and I've never remember seeing such a large volume of contrail cloud forming before.

Originally posted by softbeard
reply to post by greeneyedleo

 

You know, I don't believe in the 'chemtrail' nonsense going around YouTube these days. Still, I think odd-looking stuff is going on. I watched a contrail forming off of a high-altitude jet carefully through a set of 10 x 50 binoculars today and I've never remember seeing such a large volume of contrail cloud forming before.

Have you ever looked at them through 10x50 binoculars before?

30- in Alaska, yea, I imagine things will be different than springtime in South Jersey.



As for samples, untained... By whos standards and what standards?

I have plenty of surface swabs, water samples, and plenty of images showing that some leave these trails, and some do not. Some leave normal contrails like you say, which is pretty often when sitting outside all day. And some leave chemtrails.

Im not saying every trail is a chemtrail, but Im open. Some here seem less open than me.



Are you in the camp that chemtrails do not exist at all whatsoever?

chemtrails are real.
There are many books written on the subject.
checkout Coast to Coast AM last week there was quite a few quoted books on the subject matter.

The fact is that if they linger longer than average couple of minutes then they are chemtrails - they contain Boron and other metals which create Asthma, breathing problem and as military study indicated they were supposed to be used for radar range and other studies indicated to stop global warming. The conclusive fact is that they are used for population elimination at some point as a binary agent, the first part is being introduced into our system, the second part could be another chemical to kill us or even electronic to activate the poison.

The aircraft mechanics who fit the nozzles and the additives to the fuel are all real.

Follow the Chemtrails if you're interested, it will lead you to the same conclusion.

Originally posted by true-life
as military study indicated they were supposed to be used for radar range and other studies indicated to stop global warming.

Again...I will point out that the ice in contrails has a greater affect on reflecting sunlight than any other chemical. Simply google albedo because Im sick of pointing this out

Originally posted by Goethe
And, look up the UK Guardian, its a major media outlet in the UK. They ran a story about the UK govt admitting to spraying them for decades with bioweapons they were testing... So to think no one is capable of doing anything like this is just foolish and not based on reality.

Straw man.

No-one is denying that in the 50s and 60s experiments took place to determine dispersal rates of chemicals deployed either at ground level or form low flying aircraft.

No-one is denying that similar experiments might conceivably take place today.

What we're denying is that what you see in the sky are chemtrails. Since in every single case they look and act identical to normal contrails oberseved and studied extensively since the 1950s (when Appleman devised his famous chart to act as a rough field guide to the likelihood of persistent contrails forming)

The only things that have changed since 1953 are a) thousands more aircraft flying every single day - so much greater likelihood of contrails being observed and b) the internet. It may be no coincidence that the idea of chemtrails seems to have originated in the mid 90s just as the internet was taking off ..... I'm still undecided whether chemtrails were a deliberate viral hoax to test the internet .....

Originally posted by Goethe
...I see what youre saying. Well, some planes fly and nothing comes from them, no contrails, no chemtrails. Nothing. Then some have a contrail, an ehaust emmission that disipates within afew seconds as usual for here. Then there are these white planes that fly and leave a thick trail, a chemtrail. It turns into a thick band of milky haze that floats and falls, unlike a cloud ever has that Ive seen. The day starts out cloud free, then afew planes fly through, and within an hour, the whole sky is covered and no blue anywhere is visible. Where does that come from, jet exhaust, really?

Well, it didnt do that where I lived in Ohio. Nor in the Florida Keys...

Different "local" weather conditions can produce trails with a difference of appearance -- and when I say "local" I don't mean Florida or Ohio; I mean different parts of the same visible sky can have different temperature and humidity conditions that produce different-looking contrails.

For example, there could be two planes that you see in the sky at the same time. One could be flying at 30,000 feet and the other flying at 37,000 feet (the planes may look to a ground observer to be at the same altitude, but they are not). One of those planes could be flying through a part of the sky with "local" weather conducive to thick persistent contrail formation, and the other plane could be flying through "local" weather that creates NO contrail.

The observer on the ground may say "the one producing a trail must be a chemtrail, because the other has no trail". But in reality NEITHER of them would necessarily be producing chemtrails.

Also, it's possible for a single plane to fly through different conditions, meaning that a plane could be producing a contrail one minute, then fly through an area in which it does NOT produce a trail, then fly through an area that again is conducive to trail productions. This would be an intermittent contrail, and it is not that uncommon.

...and, by the way, it doesn't matter that much whether the planes are flying above Ohio in the fall or Florida in the summer -- the temperature and humidity at 37,000 feet could be the same in both locations.

Do contrails exist, yea. Do chemtrails exist, yea. Google patent # 5 003 186.

Why I have to prove anything is odd, there documents stating what it is and how theyre doing it.

A quote from the patent from 1991: 'One technique proposed to seed the metallic paticles was to add tiny particles to the fuel of jet airliners, so that the particles would be emitted from the jet engine exhaust while the airliner was at its cruising alt...'

Yes -- there are patented methods for spreading chemicals and other substances from a plane's exhaust. Also, people have been "seeding clouds" with silver iodide since the 1940s as a method for creating rain from a cloud. There was a time in the 1950s and 1960s that cloud seeding with silver iodide was relatively common.

However, I fail to see how that patent you quoted or cloud seeding is evidence that many of the jet airline trails we see air CHEMtrails -- especially considering that persistent CONtrails that eventually spread out into cloud cover are a common water vapor trail that can occur at any time and in any geographical locations (if the weather "at altitude" is conducive to it).

Now, there is alot of evidence that supports most theories, but regardless of any of that, go outside and watch your skies for a solid day. Take some pics and some samples of the dirt afterwards, some water samples, and print out some of the documents that are out there, and then tell me spraying isnt going on...

Can you please show us the results from your soil and water testing? I would be interested to see them. Admittedly, I personally would not go through the time and expense of doing my own sampling, but perhaps another ATS member has the ability (or the desire) to do this -- but first we need to see your results before deciding whether this would be necessary.

And, look up the UK Guardian, its a major media outlet in the UK. They ran a story about the UK govt admitting to spraying them for decades with bioweapons they were testing... So to think no one is capable of doing anything like this is just foolish and not based on reality.

Again, saying that it is possible to spray chemicals, or to show that the U.S. has tested spraying chemicals is FAR FAR different than saying that the trails over Ohio (that look exactly like contrails) are actually chemicals.

That would be like me saying that because serial killers have been described by their next door neighbors as "a quiet guy" that means that my quiet next door neighbor must be a serial killer.


Edit: spelling

[edit on 4/13/2010 by Soylent Green Is People]

Soil sampling will mean nothing. Must take an air sampling up there inside the "con/chem"trail.

Samples in the ground could show things that come from a variety of other sources like polution coming from things on the ground: car exhaust, factories spewing things into the air and so on. A common element found in these samples by chemtrail believers is barium. Barium comes from many sources but this is failed to be recognized by chemtrail believers. They all say its coming from the "chemical spraying" of these planes.

Samples have to be taken from the air. Impossible to do? Yup probably unless a plane was equipped with something taking the samples.

You also have the issue of proper collection and proper handling of the collection. As a crime scene/forensic student - I know the importance of proper collection and handling. If proper procedures are not followed - the sample is contaminated and void and can not be used. Period.

***********

I have plenty of surface swabs, water samples, and plenty of images showing that some leave these trails, and some do not.

With that said. I would love for the OP to show us the lab results for the samples he collected and give us the notes he took on where and how he collected the samples and when, how and where he took these samples to be anayzed. Id love to know the lab who performed these tests. Thanks!

[edit on April 13th 2010 by greeneyedleo]

[edit on April 13th 2010 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by true-life
chemtrails are real.
There are many books written on the subject.
checkout Coast to Coast AM last week there was quite a few quoted books on the subject matter.

The fact is that if they linger longer than average couple of minutes then they are chemtrails - they contain Boron and other metals which create Asthma, breathing problem and as military study indicated they were supposed to be used for radar range and other studies indicated to stop global warming. The conclusive fact is that they are used for population elimination at some point as a binary agent, the first part is being introduced into our system, the second part could be another chemical to kill us or even electronic to activate the poison.

The aircraft mechanics who fit the nozzles and the additives to the fuel are all real.

Follow the Chemtrails if you're interested, it will lead you to the same conclusion.

This is all assumption, speculation and opinion. Not one thing mentioned is "fact" Just sayn'.

reply to post by true-life



Sorry. Nope.

The aircraft mechanics who fit the nozzles and the additives to the fuel are all real.

Uh-uh. Untrue.

There are bogus "stories" floating on the Internets, of such tales. They are fiction. Apparently, written either for someone's amusement, as a prank, or to continue this "chemtrail" nonsense for purely selfish reasons...as in, $$$$

IF you care to cite the "sources" that have 'convinced' you of these 'mechanics who fit the nozzles', then we will be able to shoot it down, thoroughly. AND, bonus --- everyone will have learned something about gullibility.

Originally posted by Goethe
30- in Alaska, yea, I imagine things will be different than springtime in South Jersey.



As for samples, untained... By whos standards and what standards?

I have plenty of surface swabs, water samples, and plenty of images showing that some leave these trails, and some do not. Some leave normal contrails like you say, which is pretty often when sitting outside all day. And some leave chemtrails.

Im not saying every trail is a chemtrail, but Im open. Some here seem less open than me.

My point about -30 in Alaska is that due to the temperatures (weather condition) the CONtrails absolutely do last a very long time. Way up there where those planes are flying the temperatures get extremely cold EVEN IF the ground temperature is spring/summer temps. You can see persistant CONtrails lasting a long time, close to the ground. That is fact. That is why at times the CONtrails will last much longer than other times. But you made the claim that it is wrong. When it fact, your claim is 100% wrong.

Are you in the camp that chemtrails do not exist at all whatsoever?

Am I in the "camp"? There is nothing that proves to me that the CONtrails in the pictures you show and the countless other pictures are anyting but CONtrails. There is no proof that the trails in the skies that everyone is freaking out over are chemtrails. None. Not one ounce of proof.

So, maybe I am in that camp. *pitching a tent and lighting a fire and reaching for my marshmallows*

[edit on April 13th 2010 by greeneyedleo]

Please deniers or ignorance, show us only one chemtrail.

WW2 Aerosol?! For Global Warming?!?



Corridors of Europe:




THIS IS NOT A CHEMTRAIL, ITS A FUEL DROPPING


This also:


Kerosene in the air

reply to post by cushycrux

The third image is not a fuel dump. It is contrails formed by wing vortices as well as engine exhaust. Apparently the air was highly saturated when that image was taken.

Look! I have dreamt for months to spot this gorgeous scene that a Virgin Airbus with a rainbow contrail. Photo was taking while decsending from 9000m to 8100m when she was climbing to 9600m on opposite direction & nearing route point PIMOL. Many thanks to A.net Photographer Zhangzongli for his help.

www.airliners.net...

The next image is not a fuel dump either. It is a demonstration of a fire fighting aircraft, dropping water.


The last image is not "kerosene in the air". It is an iridescent cloud.
www.atoptics.co.uk...

Any comments on the patent I referenced, or is that NOT a fact?

Pictures get people on death row in our country. I have thousands of all white, unmarked planes spraying all day almost everyday.

You say I need to show you fact... Well, wheres yours that that say what Im seeing, reading, and completely understanding is just my imagination?

If the govts of the world are gunna tax us for global warming... And theres patents and studys and chemtrail legislation, Im gunna use that as some facts instead of an article written in the 70s.

You dont think if they honestly bought the global warming scam they wouldnt spray the sky to try to slow or stop it?

Also, any swabs or samples I take are not to prove this to anyone but me and my family. You might not be concerned, but we are. Id like to know what Im breathing in on a daily basis.

We use depleted uranium on people all over the world... But spraying us is out of the question.


How about the admission from the UK govt in 2002 via The UK Guardian...


Isnt that a fact? Or are your facts the only ones that are true and relavent in this matter? Do you have any images of contrails or chemtrails? Samples?

Air samples are great, and would be of much use, but since pollution is in the air too, wouldnt your requirements for soil samples be mute... How about water samples... If I put a container with sterilized water out while theyre spraying, wouldnt that be ok?

Im just curious if you or any one else saying they dont exist does anything other than read afew old articles and say everyone else is wrong?

Im atleast trying.