Ten Signs You Are An Unquestioning Christian

I feel compelled to pay some homage to the mods of this web-site. The best place for this thread to be (and the same is true for the similar thread about Athiest's) is in the below top secret section.

In reference to author of this thread, you probably meant well with this thread. But, the thing is, threads like this start fights. I realize my "crass" response more than likely didn't help much. However, I just couldn't help it.

When it comes down to it, fighting and arguing doesn't get anyone anywhere. It is my hope that after all is said and done, we can ALL be the best of friends.

Op, here is my apology for my remarks. In hind sight I know it just added fuel to the fire and I was wrong to react in this way.

Much respect to the moderators of this web-site for doing the right thing.

~ Zeus


[edit on 1-4-2010 by Zeus2573]

We were told at school that man is made from the same elements as a bar of soap, I saw on the news that common house dust has the same elements as what makes us human.

What the Bible is saying that out of dust God put an order to things, he created us in the similar surroundings as the earth, which is why there are creation related patterns and orders in eco systems and the order and geometry of plants and cells. Scientists are saying how cells must have been created and programmed rather than basic evolution theory. The argument is never closed but for some that is all they need to not believe in God it works both ways.

Yeah - I don't spent much time in BTS.

I am indeed glad the mods moved this thread here.

My bad.

Originally posted by impaired


2: You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.


6: You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.


10: You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history, but still call yourself a "Christian".

jmm.aaa.net.au...

I believe the term is "epic fail"!
You are assuming all Christians are creationists and all are anti-science. You're also assuming we're all uneducated. (I would put my education up against yours any day, if as I assume you are, you're an American. Your education system is woefully behind the rest of the developed world, especially in science.
The ignorance (not just in spelling and grammar) I see here makes me want to take a red pen to the whole site! (I am a teacher.)
Wrong on all these counts.
Do grow up, and learn something about what you're attacking!
Vicky

Originally posted by impaired

Originally posted by ventian

6: You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.

This is one I want to address as an agnostic. My father in law and me talk for hours sometimes on subjects like this. He is a christian as my wife is so I have no beef with the religion itself, (just the people running it). I asked about how the earth was created in 7 days? When I asked this he asked me "What is time in God's eyes"? "One day could be designated as a millenium to him". It was literally one of those things that just kind of shocked me as I was used to hearing "Can you prove it is that old"? He doesn't do the church thing as he doesn't tend to trust them so maybe he is a bit more agnostic than some other ones but I thought that I would share it here.

There it is! I hear that one a lot!

It clearly says DAYS. Saying that "God's days" are different is a cop-out, imho.

Also, isn't that a contradiction when they say that?

They're admitting that the earth could very well be 4.5 billion years old, and that God's days are longer, so it measures up.

But I thought Christians (if the shoe fits, wear it) don't believe in science!!!

A 'day' in Hebrew literally means a non distinct period of time. Also there is a verse in the bible that says a day is the same as a thousand years to God, meaning He is outside of 'time.' Also how could there be a literal 'day' in Genesis 1:1 when the Earth hadn't even been formed yet...remember a day on Earth is way different then a day on say...Jupiter...? Obviously it's not a literal Earth day...

Friend, I want to say that I have doubts just like you, but I try to give God a chance...and when I find evidence that seems to contradict Him, I ask Him to reveal to me the truth, and He does every time. For He says that anyone who seeks Him will find Him when they seek with all their heart. Anyone who knocks, the door shall be opened. God is standing behind a tree waiting for you to come look for Him. I promise there are perfect answers to every one of your questions....Just ask Him.

reply to post by Vicky32


Actually, it's the signs that you're an 'unquestioning' Christian, not a Christian. Creationists and Biblical literalists would be those that most fall into the category of 'unquestioning' in general. I don't have a problem with Christians who question, but those who don't fit the descriptions of this thread.

Originally posted by Vicky32
I believe the term is "epic fail"!

You are assuming all Christians are creationists and all are anti-science. You're also assuming we're all uneducated. (I would put my education up against yours any day, if as I assume you are, you're an American. Your education system is woefully behind the rest of the developed world, especially in science.
The ignorance (not just in spelling and grammar) I see here makes me want to take a red pen to the whole site! (I am a teacher.)
Wrong on all these counts.
Do grow up, and learn something about what you're attacking!
Vicky

Yeah, ummm. I may be an American, but all I do in my spare time (Minus the time I sleep is spare time these days) IS RESEARCH.

I've read the bible - OT and NT, including the Apocrypha, about 1/4 of the Koran, and some questionable translations of Sumerian Creation, a little Mayan, and the Torah.

I am on a constant search for knowledge...

So. Who here in this post has the last laugh????

I find it ridiculous in how you said, "Grow up and learn something about what you're attacking!"

Ohhhh... If you only knew how much of it I (believe I) know already...

And hmmm... I see I ruffled someone's feathers. Are YOU a Christian by any chance?

And not that I have anything against real Christians. I have problems with ignorance, racism, and most of all - extremism.

Originally posted by impaired

Originally posted by Vicky32
I believe the term is "epic fail"!

You are assuming all Christians are creationists and all are anti-science. You're also assuming we're all uneducated. (I would put my education up against yours any day, if as I assume you are, you're an American. Your education system is woefully behind the rest of the developed world, especially in science.
The ignorance (not just in spelling and grammar) I see here makes me want to take a red pen to the whole site! (I am a teacher.)
Wrong on all these counts.
Do grow up, and learn something about what you're attacking!
Vicky

Yeah, ummm. I may be an American, but all I do in my spare time (Minus the time I sleep is spare time these days) IS RESEARCH.

I've read the bible - OT and NT, including the Apocrypha, about 1/4 of the Koran, and some questionable translations of Sumerian Creation, a little Mayan, and the Torah.

I am on a constant search for knowledge...

So. Who here in this post has the last laugh????

I find it ridiculous in how you said, "Grow up and learn something about what you're attacking!"

Ohhhh... If you only knew how much of it I (believe I) know already...

And hmmm... I see I ruffled someone's feathers. Are YOU a Christian by any chance?

And not that I have anything against real Christians. I have problems with ignorance, racism, and most of all - extremism.

edit on 12/28/2010 by impaired because: (no reason given)

Yes, I am a Christian, and I simply got angry because of the OP's assumption that all Christians are uneducated racist extremist creationists!
It's possible you are the OP, in which case, I did intend what I said to be addressed to you...
When I said 'learn something about what you're attacking, I meant learn something about Christians, not about the Bible, Torah etc...
Oh, and Madness, yes, I take your point!
Vicky

Originally posted by Vicky32
Yes, I am a Christian, and I simply got angry because of the OP's assumption that all Christians are uneducated racist extremist creationists!
It's possible you are the OP, in which case, I did intend what I said to be addressed to you...
When I said 'learn something about what you're attacking, I meant learn something about Christians, not about the Bible, Torah etc...
Oh, and Madness, yes, I take your point!

Vicky

I am indeed the OP of this thread. I did not write the material that the OP is based on, however... I just provided a link and some copy & paste.

After weeks of this thread being up, I realized how bad I messed up.

I meant to direct the OP towards fundamentalists.

So my problem is with religion in general. I believe you can still be a good person, try to do the right thing, and still have a concept of The Creator (I'm agnostic, btw - NOT atheist).

I believe you can still do this without religion - and especially dogma.

If it weren't for dogma, people saying "You'll Burn in Hell!!", religious wars (jihads), crusades, RACISM and BIGOTRY, and the inhibiting of learning, then I would like religion.

You say you're a teacher. Tell me - does your school or yourself teach evolution? Science? Astronomy?

Originally posted by impaired


If it weren't for dogma, people saying "You'll Burn in Hell!!", religious wars (jihads), crusades, RACISM and BIGOTRY, and the inhibiting of learning, then I would like religion.

You say you're a teacher. Tell me - does your school or yourself teach evolution? Science? Astronomy?

I am an ESOL teacher, so I am teaching teens and adults and just English... However the Education Act here says that schools must be : "Free, secular and compulsory". The quality of science teaching here is exemplary! My youngest son left school just a few years ago, and had nothing but praise for his science and maths teachers (the latter being a Christian woman from South Africa.)
IMO, all countries could do with an Education Act like ours...
I fully understand your anger at the things you have listed - I hasten to say that I never, not even in jest, said to anybody, "you'll burn in Hell!" (Quite aside from anything else, it's not up to me to decide!)

Vicky

Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by impaired


If it weren't for dogma, people saying "You'll Burn in Hell!!", religious wars (jihads), crusades, RACISM and BIGOTRY, and the inhibiting of learning, then I would like religion.

You say you're a teacher. Tell me - does your school or yourself teach evolution? Science? Astronomy?

I am an ESOL teacher, so I am teaching teens and adults and just English... However the Education Act here says that schools must be : "Free, secular and compulsory". The quality of science teaching here is exemplary! My youngest son left school just a few years ago, and had nothing but praise for his science and maths teachers (the latter being a Christian woman from South Africa.)
IMO, all countries could do with an Education Act like ours...
I fully understand your anger at the things you have listed - I hasten to say that I never, not even in jest, said to anybody, "you'll burn in Hell!" (Quite aside from anything else, it's not up to me to decide!)

Vicky

Maybe YOU never have said things like that, but I have gotten it from others, and I have heard from others their tales. I can't believe I just used the word "tales".

Like I said - my problem are with the fundies. I need to specify this more often - that is my own error.

My motto is - If you want to believe in something - ok - cool. But once you start causing crap with others and making them feel bad for having a different belief system - that makes my face red and hot.

I'm sure we're on the same page.

reply to post by impaired



Greetings! I am so glad that you brought these concerns up. I was raised in a fundamentalist environment and was force-fed religious stuff all my childhood. They never had any decent answers to my probing questions, and furthermore, they just didn't want to take the time to think about it. Even now, there is a part of me that is furious for the way I was treated. But on a certain level, I have really come to understand that my tormentors were just re-enacting the teaching method of their parents and grandparents....it was the way tradition has been passed down in Western society for thousands of years. So I am willing to forgive.
Needless to say, the indoctrinating method they used drove me away from Christianity rather than to it. I began to seek answers in multitudinous other philosophies and types of thinking. First, Buddhist philosophy attracted me because it claimed to answer the problem of suffering. That is very relevant because American culture, of all cultures I have had close acquaintance with, is a culture of pain. There are cultures that are painful by the nature of circumstances, such as in poorer countries. But the US is a culture of pain by choice, by design, by indoctrination. For me as well as for many other children, it was the torture chamber from which we emerged many years later emotionally and spiritually mangled and beaten. The natural choice for me was to turn against everything my indoctrinators stood for. Of course, Buddhism was not the only step I went through, I also had an atheistic period. But I was really trying to find an answer. Nothing really satisfied me.
Science answers many questions. It gives us a window into the natural world with which we can open up more and more exciting venues for the advancement of humankind. But no matter how I have tried to make it fit, science has not been able to give me a permanent solution to my own existential angst. Ultimately, I finally came full circle, and now believe in a form of Christianity. It was a long, hard path though.
Some may never believe in what they say is an imaginary God. Very well then, but I believe they are missing out on something more satisfying, something more enduring. The human mind is such a fickle thing. The mature must have a foundation for their lives. They are sick of childish whims, following their feeling of the day. They need something to strive for that is higher than them. To me, science is an interesting field of endeavor, but it is no substitute for a foundation. Science is always changing, anyway. Every once in a while, our minds are rocked by a new paradigm-changing discovery. Exciting, but even if science could soothe our pain, I wouldn't want to build my life on shifting sands.
There are very good reasons for the violence in the Old Testament. One of them is that the people whom the Israelites were told to exterminate (which they didn't, by the way), had been offering their newborn children as sacrifices on the alter of Molech, and burning then in the fire for thousands of years. It gave God great pain to see this happening, innocent little chidren murdered to appease falsehood. Read the Bible, you'll see why. Israel was chosen to inhabit the land of Palestine in order to be an example for all the nations. They were supposed to be righteous and loving, through obedience to God's instruction. They failed miserably because they were led away into idolatry by the very people they were supposed to have gotten rid of.
The greatest commandments in the Old Testament goes like this: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength," and, "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Regardless of what other people have failed to do, I am going to do my best to fulfill those instructions. That includes loving atheists and those who hate me.
May you have a wonderful day.

I am christian but reading #10, I can't help but think of so many people who consider themselves christians (not saying they aren't), who i've met who haven't read the bible fully. I mean, it's the physical center of the religion, that we have, or should have if they are serious, around 24/7 in our homes or, etc. It really gets me when people say they don't have time to read it. I love history in general, so studying the bible is something I enjoy and religious history.

I remember seeing a movie titled "Time Changer", I believe, where a man from the 1800's is in secret round table meeting to separate church from political issues and goes to the future in a time machine to see what would happen if he agreed to it, and he went into the churches and all people did was have sunday church meetings and spend half of that time AND THEN the rest of the week planning church bowling outings and movie nights, etc.

I believe the movie was produced and directed by an independent christian movie company.

all of these weak attempts to debunk Christianity are hilarious.


It reminds me of the few times I have actually met an atheist..lol now THAT is hilarious.