Alternative sites and their value

When I looked for alternative sites, I hoped to land on those offering an alternative view of events, and I assumed that AboveTopSecret is one of these. If one is content with the news, history, orthodox religion, archeology, science, etc. as submitted to us by the mass media, there is little point going on a site like this or even commenting on threads. If you don't believe that anything will happen in 2012, why come here? If you don't believe there is a brown dwarf or dangerous cosmic object coming our way soon, why come here? The mainstreamists DO come here to debunk anything which offends their mainstream view of reality. Well, that's the trouble with democracy ; that one is free to disagree. But here, the democracy would be to state your point of view or perspective, not to try to convert. On this site, I have a long list of disbelievers of mainstream preachers. You can feel them in your gut and ignore them readily.
Like Calleman, who felt challenging the Mayan End Date could amount to heresy in the circles he walked in, I maybe committing heresy in issuing this thread.

mclinking

Why does it surprise you that you're going to find differing opinions in a forum? People love to bitch, moan, whine, and debate....we all do. So just because I come here doesn't mean I have to think like you do. Hell, I don't think like anyone of you all because I'm an individual. I come here because I find the topics very entertaining (read funny as hell) and I like to debate.

Deal with it or log off.

And for the record, Planet X is one of the more laughably preposterous 2012 theories yet. I love it.

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


I think what you just said proves why alot of people are reluctant to spread info here. The pure denial is overwhelming and ignorance is deep.

Nasa finds 10th planet

Then here is NASA debunking 2012.

2012: Beginning of the End or Why the World Won't End?

The real question is, can you trust NASA and the government for truth?

Read this for some good info on NASA's lies on Planet X

Oh and never forget NASA announced finding Planet X way back in 1983 then retracted their statement the following week.

Announcement that Planet X is real

NASA 1983 30-Dec-1983**

"A heavenly body possibly as large as the giant planet
Jupiter and possibly so close to Earth that it would be part
of this solar system has been found in the direction of the
constellation Orion by an orbiting telescope aboard the U.S.
infrared astronomical satellite. So mysterious is the object
that astronomers do not know if it is a planet, a giant
comet, a nearby "protostar" that never got hot enough to
become a star, a distant galaxy so young that it is still in
the process of forming its first stars or a galaxy so
shrouded in dust that none of the light cast by its stars
ever gets through. "All I can tell you is that we don't know
what it is," Dr. Gerry Neugebauer, IRAS chief scientist for
California's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and director of the
Palomar Observatory for the California Institute of
Technology said in an interview.

The most fascinating explanation of this mystery body, which
is so cold it casts no light and has never been seen by
optical telescopes on Earth or in space, is that it is a
giant gaseous planet, as large as Jupiter and as close to
Earth as 50 billion miles. While that may seem like a great
distance in earthbound terms, it is a stone's throw in
cosmological terms, so close in fact that it would be the
nearest heavenly body to Earth beyond the outermost planet
Pluto. "If it is really that close, it would be a part of
our solar system," said Dr. James Houck of Cornell
University's Center for Radio Physics and Space Research and
a member of the IRAS science team. "If it is that close, I
don't know how the world's planetary scientists would even
begin to classify it."

The mystery body was seen twice by the infrared satellite as
it scanned the northern sky from last January to November,
when the satellite ran out of the supercold helium that
allowed its telescope to see the coldest bodies in the
heavens. The second observation took place six months after
the first and suggested the mystery body had not moved from
its spot in the sky near the western edge of the
constellation Orion in that time. "This suggests it's not a
comet because a comet would not be as large as the one we've
observed and a comet would probably have moved," Houck said.
"A planet may have moved if it were as close as 50 billion
miles but it could still be a more distant planet and not
have moved in six months time."

reply to post by Smell The Roses


You might want to check your sources before you call people ignorant. "Planet X" was first put out to the public was by two independent astronomers that were not affiliated with NASA. The same astronomers later retracted their findings when they realized that what they had discovered was a gas cloud, not a star or planet.

The 10th planet has been debated for years, but there has never been anything conclusive other than the thing is moving away from our solar system.

If you don't believe that anything will happen in 2012, why come here? If you don't believe there is a brown dwarf or dangerous cosmic object coming our way soon, why come here?

Something WILL happen on 2012: I will go to the toilet. And you bet that brown dwarf is coming!

If you want a site where people only talk about your interests and agree with you, you should create one!

There are plenty of people like me on ATS, who do have an open mind, but greatly appreciate the efforts and research from the debunkers. I actually like to think of them as Exposers: exposing the frauds so rampant in New Age, UFO or spiritual circles.

This site has changes quite a bit since i first found it several years ago. So have the other sites, it is a shame. This is an alternative site, for alternative views. Those who want traditional views should go on those sites. But, that would not accomplish the agenda, would it? Best of Luck to You.

Originally posted by CestLaVie
This site has changes quite a bit since i first found it several years ago. So have the other sites, it is a shame. This is an alternative site, for alternative views. Those who want traditional views should go on those sites. But, that would not accomplish the agenda, would it? Best of Luck to You.

So you want a forum with only like minded people? How frickin' boring and useless would that be. The very definition of diversity is what makes these places so much fun. You have an opinion and I have an opinion and we talk/discuss/debate. That's where knowledge can become forged into wisdom, the two are not always interchangable.

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


Join a debating society. But you don't debate, do you. You're here to sneer first chance you get. You look for a topic to attack. What's your alternative of anything? Here, I sense a sadistic pleasure in debunking. You assume too much. I haven't told you anything about the subjects I mentioned. I have a point of view about them, yes, but this thread isn't about any particular issue. You've said "Ah! A freak. Let's kick ass some freak!" Or kill a dog.

mclinking

Originally posted by mclinking
reply to post by KILL_DOGG

 

You've said "Ah! A freak. Let's kick ass some freak!" Or kill a dog.

mclinking

No...apparently Yoda said that.

If you don't want to be debunked, debated, or de bears, then don't post anything at all. I come here because I have a good time debating with people. I also happen to have a lot of world experience and education. I just like to show people that there are other sides they may not have thought about.

Do I throw out a cheap shot from time to time? Sure, I'm not innocent and would never claim to be. However, if you're looking for 100% buy in from everyone for every topic you post, you're living in the wrong electronic world my friend.

A forum for alternative views is about both skeptics and supporters. Just because it says "alternative views" doesn't mean than any old belief you have should go unchallenged.

The Flat Earth Society, for example, should not go unchallenged on a site like this. We know the Earth is oblong and spherical, not flat and cornered. We have scientific evidence to support this. So if a Flat Earth Society member came on these boards and started talking about the alternative view stating that the Earth is flat, we should disagree, debate, and debunk them.

Now, unless you're going to allow the Flat Earth Society, the Neo-Nazis, the Klan and other hate-crime, history-revisionist groups to run freely on these boards we have to welcome debunkers of all fields. I believe the real problem here is that certain members don't like being challenged. However, the debunkers are right. If we're so sure that we're right about our views we need to present evidence. Our "word" means nothing when it concerns alternative topics, we need to present facts and heavily researched evidence.

Otherwise we're no different than the Flat Earth Society.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


I'm not quite sure whether you're debunking Planet X or 2012 or the tie-up. But as for Planet X, check out the Jenner files, a SCIENTIFIC compilation of documentary evidence by ASTRONOMERS of the existence of Planet X, a pdf file of 240+ pages, all from scientific journals. Read that first and THEN tell me you know more than they do.

mclinking

reply to post by mclinking


Whether a "Planet X" exists or not - and who knows anymore these days what constitutes a planet (see Pluto) - does nothing towards debunking of verifying the 2012 conspiracies. Proving that another planet exists somewhere out there in our Universes doesn't mean that some galactic event is going to happen on December 21, 2012. This type of logical fallacy is called a non sequitur.

If you really want to "prove" the validity of Planet X on the 2012 conspiracies then you have to demonstrate that Planet X will crash headlong into us in two years. Just saying "see, there's a planet" doesn't mean "a planet is going to crash into us in 2 years"

You need empirical evidence of such a catastrophe approaching us.

~ Scribe

Originally posted by KILL_DOGG
And for the record, Planet X is one of the more laughably preposterous 2012 theories yet. I love it.

I must agree with that.

Here's a list of the 2012 event probabilities, posted over at the 2012forum.
2012forum.com...

I have been a member over there for some time...
Please keep in mind that 99% of the members over there DO NOT BELIEVE THE WORLD WILL END ON 12-21-12.

The only one I really believe in, is that the Mayan calendar will end and restart on 12/21/12. And that we may be getting a Space Nasty (comet, asteroid, solar flare) sooner rather than later.


[edit on 2-4-2010 by Deja Q]

O/P...

Somebody sounds like they're a helluva lot intolerant of what other people think, believing what you think to be truth and anything different to be bunk...

"If you don't believe that anything will happen in 2012, why come here? If you don't believe there is a brown dwarf or dangerous cosmic object coming our way soon, why come here?"

You're kidding, right ? That statement is ignorance epitomised IMO...If I could give you a WBTS (Way Below Top Secret) award I would...That kind of thinking will get you a long way on here

[edit on 2/4/2010 by Retrovertigo]

Alternative sites are a pest, a threat to government, one that must be confronted soon.

The internet needs to be shut down, then we can relaunch it with the same FCC regulations we have in place over broadcast television and radio.

Freedom can't be free, nor should it be easily accessed, truth will find a way to enlighten the people.... At least until we find a way to stop it, and of course tax it more.

I'm a member on several alternative sites and some of them are hostility havens full of hackers and haters. (That's a lot of H's!)

I like discovering what alternative news there is to BE discussed. Some of this stuff I'd never heard of until I came here and was surprised to find so many people discussing the pros and cons of each issue.

What I understood the OP to mean is that if you're just here to argue with any and everything then why did you bother? I didn't think he meant that if you don't agree with everything that's presented on alternative sites that you're automatically a trouble-maker for showing up here.

The OP is free to correct any misgivings I may have had.