Clarity about anti-grav, crashed UFO's and back-engineering.

The purpose of this thread is to gain clarity about what is going on with, and the relation between anti-gravity and back-enigeering technology from crashed UFO's.

Just now I read a thread about anti-grav technology and the 'scientists' who 'discovered' it.

Personally I do not belief any of Hutchisons claims and doubt that any person on this planet has the anti-gravity tec. Why?

For one, (officially) we haven't started to understand gravity yet. That's why we needed to built the huge particle collider.

Another why...what are these huge silent running black triangles in the air at night. Owned by the US-army or little green men?....supposing that the witness accounts are true and real.

Why should it always be the americans who back-enigeneer UFO-tec? Why not the russians or chinese or dutch for that matter?

Using the argument that these other countries are too poor or too stupid knowing what to do with an crashed UFO is not flying.

So, why do these other countries not have these 'wunderwaffen' or 'wundertec'?

Is it that UFO's only crash in the USA? Or is there an US crash-retrieval team who can and will retrieve all UFO's all over the world.

Are these teams so swift and stealthy that no foreign intelligence agency and no army is able to beat them to be the first at the crash-site? Do not think so.

It just doesn't make any sense.

--There either are no UFO's and all the anti-grav tec is US made. Which means
that the science is understood and this whole LHC (huge expensive particle collider from CERN) experiment is not about understanding gravity.

-- All countries have (for some reason) an agreement that only the US is allowed to retrieve UFO's and does the US understand the science of it and is making all kinds of cool stuff with it.

-- The US-army can back-engineer but has no clue about the science of it

--The US-army has been given anti-gravity stuff from ET. No back-engineering.

--There is no relation and is it BS alltogether.


As you can see, I have difficulty to make the connection and wrap my mind around it. In my story there are some gaps and things that clash.

What did I miss, what are your thoughts about the relation between anti-grav tec, back-engineering and crashed UFO's?







[edit on 29-3-2010 by zatara]

Good thread for thought!!!!

My thoughts on this is that the US was probably the first get there hands on a downed UFO and they just might be in the lead of discovering how this new tech works.. there are UFO sighting everywhere not just in the US so the US gets to crash sites first cause they have red planes, (they go faster) and better tech to find them.

no facts in here,, just thoughts....

Originally posted by zatara

Why should it always be the americans who back-enigeneer UFO-tec? Why not the russians or chinese or dutch for that matter?

[edit on 29-3-2010 by zatara]

In my opinion, Im sure those countries all have recovered either downed ET craft, or downed test craft from other countries that aren't supposed to "officially exist." It just makes sense to me. If you look back through history there have been sightings as long as we have recorded history, with that being said, Now that we have powerful weapons systems, Im sure its much easier to shoot down craft and recover it.

You should watch the Orion Conspiracy. Im sure its 90% fiction, but it does offer some interesting theories, and ties in MANY conspiracies into one cohesive time line. Its definitely worth a watch.
WATCH THIS


[edit on 29-3-2010 by WhiteDevil013]

I see your point but the military has always been devoloping the next thing in tech long before we the civilians know about it. Look at the stealth bomber or the U2 bomber.

I would estimate that the military high end tech is at least 10 years ahead of civilians tech maybe even more. I am basing that estimate on the likes of the stealth bomber ect and it has been publicly known about since the late 80's yet apart from the new stealth planes we have seen no advancments of the kind in over 20 years!

As for other countries back engineering ufo's I do agree it seems a bit silly to think only the americans would be up to it or they had some sort of agreement to be the only ones.

But (why oh why is there always a but) the Americans have a massive military budget that some countires just could not hope to match so they might make deals with the Americans bringing them into the loop.

This is all of course speculation on my part and as always I think the simplest soultion fits best which is one of the following:

A. UFO's don't exsist

B. They do exsist and it the ailens themselves that are controling the technology.

C. The have crashed and the people that find them are to dumb to understand them and backengineer them or we lack the fabrication and engineer ability to contruct the parts, a bit like sending a laptop to 1900 and expecting which ever country finds it not only to understand all the componants but also to be able to make them.

Originally posted by zatara
Another why...what are these huge silent running black triangles in the air at night. Owned by the US-army or little green men?....supposing that the witness accounts are true and real.

www.space.com...

They are big, black, and triangular. In UFO folklore they are proof-positive that planet Earth is a rest stop for joyriding, but road-weary, extraterrestrials.

A just released study by the National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS), based in Las Vegas, Nevada, sheds new light on the dark and mysterious craft. They offer a more down-to-earth hypothesis.

NIDS researchers contend that these type vehicles are lighter-than-air, blimp-style craft of the U.S. military's making.

Credible scientists and researchers have some good ideas about what the silent black triangles may be, lighter than air craft. If it's lighter than air you might not hear any noisy propulsion system to keep it aloft.

Regarding antigravity and reverse engineering, we don't know the answers for sure, we can only speculate. Personally I doubt there's anything to reverse engineer other than war machines from other countries on earth.

Lazar told an interesting story of reverse engineering but starting with element 115, through lack of education records, etc, his story isn't credible.

If there was some secret alien craft to reverse engineer, I think it could go either way, meaning we might have success in reverse engineering or we might not. (I have an engineering background and have done some limited reverse engineering myself, but only of manmade stuff).

It depends on how far in advance the technology was to our own. To give you an example, take a quad core CPU, and travel back in time 100 years before the electron microscope was invented. It would be very difficult, probably impossible, to reverse engineer such a device with an optical microscope or any of the technology that existed at the time. Even if we were able to figure out what it was and how it was constructed, we wouldn't have had the technology yet to build our own copy of it. That could be analogous to the situation we would face if we were trying to reverse engineer advanced alien technology.

And that's only 100 years. An alien race could be 1000, or 1,000,000 years ahead of us.

[edit on 29-3-2010 by Arbitrageur]

reply to post by Arbitrageur


That NIDS prepared study mentioned on space.com is hugely flawed.

The author of the study, L. Scott Miller, says:

Each sighting requires a great deal of analysis. A witness's perceptions of speed, acceleration, and size are likely of very little value... I have taken an approach of first identifying needs -- or mission requirements -- and technology availability. Then I compare those with the cold raw, simple facts of a sighting, not the conjecture or guess work of a witness

The quintessential black flying triangle sighting is the Belgium Incident of 1989-1990. Internos made a post on this in Karl 12's thread UFO Flight Characteristics ~ Right Angle Turns.

Radar return data from ground stations as well as Belgium Airforce F16s that were scrambled to go after the flying triangle were released by Belgium. The data shows the craft taking evasive maneuvers when the F16s tried to get radar locks. Evasive maneuvers that include accelerating the craft at 46g dropping from 3km altitude down to 1.2km in 2 seconds.

No mainstream accepted physics theories could account for such acceleration forces being survivable by the crew aboard the craft. Nor could electrokinetics propel these craft at such high acceleration speeds.


I do have my own beliefs on how these craft are propelled, Extended Heim Theory's additional fundamental forces creating gravitational force and expansion force photons on the micro level, and the alcubierre warp drive effect of having contractions in spacetime at the front of the craft and expansions in spacetime at the back of the craft on a macro level.


It is too bad the Belgium Incident was ignored in this article on the black flying triangles, it would have demolished the conclusions of their study.

reply to post by zatara
Good questions, but almost impossible to find definitive answers. It's the mystery of UFOs and you're asking for solutions...we've (publicly) had no answers in 70 years.

Personally I do not belief any of Hutchisons claims and doubt that any person on this planet has the anti-gravity tec.

I agree, Hutchison's claims aren't credible. The basic equipment is available in good high school labs...he can claim 'suppression,' but his experiments aren't repeatable. This has led to the accusations of faked videos.

Another why...what are these huge silent running black triangles in the air at night. Owned by the US-army or little green men?....supposing that the witness accounts are true and real.

As Arbitrageur notes, they are more than likely US tech...dirigibles/airships. Questions remain in my mind, but are generated by the accounts of witnesses and who's to say how accurate the accounts are? If *some* accounts are credible, I wonder how a vast airship can maintain stability at speed in inclement weather?

Is it that UFO's only crash in the USA? Or is there an US crash-retrieval team who can and will retrieve all UFO's all over the world. Are these teams so swift and stealthy that no foreign intelligence agency and no army is able to beat them to be the first at the crash-site? Do not think so.

Yeah, it's hard to get a grasp of this question...many have tried. It supports the idea that some aspect of US forces are generating the 'UFO crash' for a reason we can't yet define. The US focus for these accounts leads to even more questions imo.

There either are no UFO's and all the anti-grav tec is US made. Which means that the science is understood and this whole LHC (huge expensive particle collider from CERN) experiment is not about understanding gravity.

Maybe there isn't a functional anti-grav tech? There are many papers available to the public that explore the possibility without making the theory practical. Perhaps the accounts are seeded to give the impression that it exists? None of the technology we see in action in the Middle-East and Afghanistan suggests anti-grav tech. Look at UAVs...

I don't usually post a fiskesque reply, but the OP is interesting. Now and then, I mull over the same questions and they lead to more questions. The UFO mystery could be designed to remain a mystery...knowing why is inevitably out of our reach.

Originally posted by Bobbox1980
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

That NIDS prepared study mentioned on space.com is hugely flawed.

The author of the study, L. Scott Miller, says:

Each sighting requires a great deal of analysis. A witness's perceptions of speed, acceleration, and size are likely of very little value... I have taken an approach of first identifying needs -- or mission requirements -- and technology availability. Then I compare those with the cold raw, simple facts of a sighting, not the conjecture or guess work of a witness

The quintessential black flying triangle sighting is the Belgium Incident of 1989-1990. Internos made a post on this in Karl 12's thread UFO Flight Characteristics ~ Right Angle Turns.

The NIDS study doesn't mention the Belgium sighting, does it? So how does showing the Belgium sighting may have been something else show the study is flawed? It doesn't.

Thestealthblimp.com site lists a few possibilities www.thestealthblimp.com... :

America West Airlines Flight 564 sighting
Arizona Lights Sighting
The Lebanon, Illinois Sighting
The Tinley Park Lights
The Stephenville Texas Sighting

Though they also listed the Guernsey sighting and I think they missed the boat on that one as it seems more like an atmospheric phenomenon to me.

They don't mention the Belgium sightings either.

reply to post by Arbitrageur

The NIDS study doesn't mention the Belgium sighting, does it? So how does showing the Belgium sighting may have been something else show the study is flawed? It doesn't.

Look, I am not saying the U.S. government doesn't have flying airships in its inventory, it may in fact have such vessels.

The title of the space.com article was: Investigation Casts Light on the Mysterious Flying Black Triangle

What I am saying is that to label the black flying triangle phenomenon airships with conventional technological capabilities is to completely ignore the Belgium Incident, a UFO incident with more facts and evidence than just about any other recorded UFO sighting, a sighting that demonstrates black flying triangles having far greater propulsion capabilities than what is stated in this study.

I guess I just get irked by articles like the space.com one because it will limit readers' thinking. It will get the unenlightened reader to assume there is nothing to see here, they're just blimps, and move along when the Belgium Incident would peak the unenlightened reader's curiosity.

Considering the study was done by a government organization, NIDS, and the conclusion they came up with, I can't help but think there is a disinformation or useful idiot slant to the study, that it is trying to force fit black flying triangle sightings into the airship category.

The Belgium Incident shows there is far more to the story than airships.

reply to post by Bobbox1980
The NIDS study wasn't a government outfit. They were a group of researchers financed by Bigelow. The Belgian Triangle sightings and UFO wave reports are fascinating reading, however many aspects are open to debate. It's always the way...point and counterpoint.


* Point

The So-Called “Belgian Ufo Wave” – A Critical View

* Counterpoint

A critique of :SkepticReport * The So-Called "Belgian Ufo Wave" A Critical View by Marc Hallet by Jerry Cohen

reply to post by Kandinsky

The NIDS study wasn't a government outfit. They were a group of researchers financed by Bigelow.

Ok, noted, but I don't think it changes anything. Bigelow is a defense contractor, a part of the Military Industrial Complex. Do you honestly think they are going to support a study revealing highly classified military technology? I do not, I think they are completely biased and would have a lot to lose.

The critical view you linked to is full of holes. Instead of focusing on the real hard evidence, the meat and potatoes, the author continually brings up peripheral and loosely to unrelated details of the incident, debunking those details.

The only meat and potatoes part of the incident he focuses on is the radar return data and he only glibly addresses it as if it doesn't deserve the lion's share of attention in his critique. Most of his critique consists of attacks on people and groups who are in support of the incident involving a real physical craft.

The Belgium Air Force did not come to the conclusion that their radar data and sightings on the ground were a result of meteorological phenomenon yet that is the line that author tried to pull. He is either a useful idiot or a disinformation agent.

People with a well developed BS filter can see what is important and what is not. Almost none of Marc Hallet's critique is important, the only important part is when he addresses the radar data and he barely touches on it with mere unsubstantiated speculation that the weather was somehow the cause of the radar data.

Since the Belgium Air Force never came out and stated that their radar equipment was faulty or having problems I cannot at all support the speculation of faulty equipment along with weather phenomenon being the cause.


Debate clubs are centered around the idea of 2 groups debating an issue from different sides. That does not mean one of the sides has to be valid whatsoever.

Yes you will run into people critiquing just about everything but if you have a well developed BS filter, it becomes fairly easy to tell if their critique has any validity behind it or not.

reply to post by Bobbox1980

Debate clubs are centered around the idea of 2 groups debating an issue from different sides. That does not mean one of the sides has to be valid whatsoever. Yes you will run into people critiquing just about everything but if you have a well developed BS filter, it becomes fairly easy to tell if their critique has any validity behind it or not.

My BS filter is overworked and still firing on all cylinders. I posted two links that discuss the Belgian UFO Wave from conflicting positions...did you read both?

Interesting replies so far...

The thing is that I do belief that we are being visited or share the same planet with beings that have superior technology.

For the simple reason that there are too many encounters to deny such a thing.

One of the commenters to this thread mentioned the problems with reverse engineering and understanding the science and technology of something let's say .....1000 years further with the tools and understanding of today. The man made a good point.


Another interesting remark was about big black triangle shaped silent blimbs drifting in the black night......what would be the use of that?

One thing is for sure....something is going on. And it is like one commenter said....there are no definite answers to be found.

I'd silently hoped to eliminate possebilities and end up with a few but there are to many uncertainties to expect a reasonable outcome.

But I am an optimist, so if you have something that can shed some light on this little puzzle feel free to reply.

From the OP:

The purpose of this thread is to gain clarity about what is going on with, and the relation between anti-gravity and back-enigeering technology from crashed UFO's.

Perhaps the initial statement.
"back-enigeering technology from crashed UFO's." has never happened.
There is only forward engineering.

When IBM made the first PC COMPAC made a clone by 'back-engineering'
and manufacturing a PC that would run IBM DOS programs.
RCA cloned IBM main frame computers.

The UFO was always forward engineered and all crashes have been
picked up by the proper authorities.
Any crash stories are false especially with aliens involved and all
details with known people involved are sworn to secrecy or they
look for their money back if they suspect a leak.

There is one case I heard about that has never signed off with
the ufo agents.

I'm a firm believer of man made Ufo's most likely the germans invented them, and the US got hold of some heads behind it.
I won't even say there are no visitations, that may be.
The reason why I think so strong about man made Ufo's?
It is relatively simple. If you want to travel to a nieghboring star, you would be very sure of your technology, wouldn't you? I mean that starship of yours has to be working for a long time flawlessly, or you would not arrive.
Making low orbital recon trips would be peanuts.
Now just go and look how many reported crash sites there are. Humans trying out new tech may crash a lot. A old hand at it?
I think that argument is hard to beat.

I wonder about the UFO crashing as it obviously does.
If the power is shut off, where does it go.
No more suspension.
Thats why power is left on and perhaps rescue is done by another ship.
The famous case that had no sign off still had power even though
low to the ground on a roadway.
The craft must have done away because I do not recall a landing
or if occupants were taken off or exited.
The one that crashed into a house must have had leaks or we
would not have known a thing.