How long after the year 2014 does the USA have?

With the recent debauchary of a bill that was passed, known as "health care reform" the world will be forever changed provided that it in itself is not repealed or changed dramatically. One part of the bill, I believe, will trully ruin this country as we are not really quiet yet out of the recession as. And even if we are, the year 2014 will put us into a major, major depression, provided we are not there allready.

That being said, the major change that is coming with the passage of the health care bill in 2014 is that large companies (companies with at least 50 employees) will either have to A) pay for their employees health care or B) pay a fine (the following link says $2k but I have another at the office where it says $3k which ill post later, either way, its a heafty fine per employee).

www.accountingweb.com...


This thread and the following questions are really directed at the people that wanted this health care bill. How will we, as Americans, afford this? If you not business savy, I'll draw up a little senario using my company as an example.

I have about 100 employees currently, so we will just use 100 to keep the math simple. Also, to keep it simple we will say that the health care bill says I only have to pay for my employees health care and not their families as well so we will use the single employee coverage rate as the base of this senario. Also, we will say that the premiums will stay with the current trend that we have seen in that they will go up 25% per year. I know im prolly in dreamland right now with those numbers and premium projections, but stay with me on this and you can also double check my math if you want.

Right now, my single employee coverage rate is at $80 per week. This is a decent plan with decent coverage and manageable co-pays and a $2500 deductable. At the above rate and employee base, the single employee coverage rate will be $195.31. This will mean that my company will have to come up with $19,531 a week to cover our overhead. That is $253,903 a quarter or $1,015,612 a year extra that we will have to MAKE in order to just cover our new overhead. This is an impossibility as we work in consturction, re-roofing to be exact. So basically, if its not raining, im not getting paid so to speak. So that all being said, lets look at the real options my company has in order to survive this, and yes, we will survive it but it wont be pretty.

1) We raise our prices. This will only work in the short term if we have an extremely loyal customer base and for some reason a hurricane rips off the roofs of all the houses on the west coast of Florida (God forbid). Short of a major natural disaster happening, this wont work in the long run. Our competitors will either do a option 4 or just one or two of the following.

2) We lay people off. I know, I know, you big softy liberals. The big company is just going to push people out the door so they dont have to pay for health care. Just remember, we really cant afford it and if we lay off a bunch of people, that might keep the doors open. But this is also a short term fix. We are one of the larger companies that are still around. After the recession many, many companies had to close their doors and lay off hundreds of people. We were one of the lucky few that stayed with it. Its a short term because we need people to work because we get a decent amount of jobs to do and we cant just spread the workload of 100 people around to 50 people, it just wont work.

3) We cut peoples wages...again. This is one of the ways we survived the recession, we had to tighten our belts. If we cut our employees wages though, I personally know a couple of people that will be foreclosed on due to this. I dont want to see this happen, but we cant afford not to. But this is also just a short term fix since most likely we will loose good workers to competitors (if there will be any willing to actually hire people at this point since they will also have to pay for their health care) and make our business go down in tubes.

4) We do a mix of laying people off, cutting their wages, and raising our prices. This is the most likely senario seeing that our suppliers will have to raise their prices along with the actuall manufacturers do to the new health care reform bill and because #e runs down hill. Not only will our overhead go up due directly to us having to pay the insurance but also because the products we use will be increased in price along the way down to us.

Even if we go the other route as in not paying for the health care for our employees and instead pay the fine, we will still have to do option number 4, but to a slighter degree. But just think for a second, we are just a smaller company. Imagine going to the store after January 1, 2014 and buying milk that tripled in price over night because the companies that manufacture the milk, deliver it, wholesale it to your local supermarket, and even your local supermarket will all have to increase their prices along the way in order to help pay for this exponential raise in overhead that will effect every aspect of their business and their overhead that they currently have. When I say the price of milk will thriple, I'm being conservative if you think about it. #es gonna go thru the roof.

Now, even if we go by the way of paying the fines and doing a small #4, the people that work for us who allready cant afford the insurance option we have now will definately not be able to afford it in 2014 as the price will have gone up. Also, they dont qualify for assisstance because they make to much and even if they do, its only a small subsidy and its now LAW that YOU MUST HAVE INSURANCE or be fined and eventually put in jail.

After I just layed out a small, small portion of the bill, please tell me how long we are going to last. I see an enormous socio-economic upheval coming our way by just this small part of the bill. If every company starts laying people off and cutting wages, who will buy their goods that have now increased in price? Its a physical impossibility that this bill will not ruin us as a people. Unemployment, poverty and the gap between the rich and poor will rise all the while the middle class will become extinct. Welcome to health care reform my friends. Pray that it gets repealed. Soon btw.

I think we should get through 2012 before worrying about 2014.

The national debts are due in 2012. Good luck with that.

The USA I grew up in and love is gone. From here on out, we are in virgin territory more and more.

If you look at ANY public supported health care system in the world, it is in the red....be it a country, state, province...and it will consume our country financially.

As a Christian, I always wondered why a country as powerful as the US was not mentioned in the Bible.... now I know. We won't be here as the USA, maybe a shadow of our former self, but the USA is rapidly going the way of the British Empire post WWI.

I honestly dont seeing anybody having a job for too long after they implement this section of the bill. Prices will skyrocket for everything while nobody will have enough money to pay for the items. Simple suppy and demand is all it really takes. This is what happens when you let government control your lives. Ive asked this several times now, when has a government agency in the us ever been run perfectly, or even moderately well? I cant think of one.

I agree with your ideas.

The fact is, America needs more oraginizing and unions. That way, employers have to abide by these ideas to begin with. Employees are not slaves and deserve to be treated with respect and aptly compenastated for their efforts.

Any1 who is holding a job with no health coverage needs to do better anyway. How dare employers offer no health coverage in 2010? Its horrendous. Grow those alligator arms and shell out for your employees like a human.

I'm pretty sure all pretenses of our being a constitutional republic died in November 1910...

Hmm. I'd never considered this year marks the 100th anniversary of the Jekyll Island conference. I'd give the dollar three more years, just so it can make it past the centenarian finish-line. After all, 1913 was the birth of modern American dollars; it's only appropriate that 2013 be the death of them.

The dollar will die in the coming months. This doesn't mean the end of the U.S. entirely. Contingency plans are in place, but am not sure what exactly they are. Seeing as we're being steering towards financial collapse, I can't help but think there's a combination of incompetence or willful ignorance at the lower levels and an agenda being pushed by higher ups. The agenda is either amongst the globalists to bring about world government, or between tyrants who want to change America into a fascist state.

I think the U.S. has until 2016 tops before financial collapse, but it could come much quicker. Health care is just a smoke screen, IMO. It's a way to keep the people from looking at the fed res and other real issues, fight amongst their selves over the issue, and at the same time take money from the people to use as collateral for our debt. I think the elite still need more SDR's to be handed out before allowing the dollar to collapse. Health care reform may give them some extra months.

[edit on 27-3-2010 by unityemissions]

Originally posted by spinalremain
Any1 who is holding a job with no health coverage needs to do better anyway. How dare employers offer no health coverage in 2010? Its horrendous. Grow those alligator arms and shell out for your employees like a human.

Alligator arms and shelling out as you call it requires money.

Have we forgotten that one of the problems we are faced with today is the outsourcing of jobs -- all in the name of saving money? Do some companies do this simply to be greedy and make even more money? Yes. However, some do it because it is the only thing that keeps them in the black.

Right now we are in the midst of a recession. I should think that the first step, prior to hitting any business -- but especially small business -- with a huge fee on new reform, would be to make our economy stronger so that the average business can survive. Survival is key to our economy and unfortunately, we continue to lose more and more small businesses each day without the burden of paying healthcare fees and/or fines.

One can argue that by 2014 the recession may be over, but that's a rather optimistic viewpoint, and with continued spending as we have seen in the last year, never going to happen. Again, it's a gamble by anyone's standards and a $900 billion dollar gamble at that.

The government acted recklessly in passing this legislation and gave no thought to how it is actually going to be paid for by the people that actually have to pay it.

I believe that the first step should have been to grow our GDP so that we are actually profitable prior to committing large sums of money yet to even be made. Oh, and having American people working instead of collecting even more money from the government would have been a bonus.

Not to derail the thread or anything, but can someone answer this question: Businesses that outsource jobs -- they obviously can't offer those employees in India health insurance, so do they simply have to pay the penalty? Was this issue addressed in the reform bill?

unityemissions,

I have a hard time believing that dyed-in-the-wool Keynesians have any sort of contingency plan for a currency collapse. That would be like Buddhists having a contingency plan just in case the whole "Nirvana" thing doesn't work out.

Now, as far as the other two legs of the unholy tripod go:

Obama & Co: Cloward and Piven, pretty standard stuff. It's not a contingency plan for them though. Just a plan.

The Shadowy Transnational Rich Folk: I think they are in much more of a bind than we typically think, and... Well, Bob Dylan said it best: A hard rain's gonna fall.

[edit on 27-3-2010 by Professor Tomorrow]

reply to post by Professor Tomorrow


They do. Here's the protocol that was created during the 70's crisis. I'm sure the protocols have been updated by now, but haven't seen anything more fresh.

6900 Protocols for Economic Collapse

reply to post by dizzie56


I see someone has been watching Glenn Beck...





I wonder, what would happen if everyone started dropping their prices? I keep hearing business owners saying they have to raise prices in order to make ends meet. But is that sound economic strategy? Sounds pretty dumb to me, if people don't have the money to buy anything, raising the price doesn't make it easier for people to make the economy move.

I keep hearing business owners talk about laying people off. That doesn't sound smart either. Going to be pretty hard to do business if no one is working. I wonder what would happen if every business in America actually hired 1 or extra people. Yes, it doesn't seem like businesses can afford it, but if business owners hired 1 or 2 people, that would put a major dent in unemployment, people would be earning a paycheck and therefore be able to buy products and services from businesses.

Just my thoughts.

How long does the united states have after 2014? In my opinion, a long long time.

Originally posted by spinalremain
I agree with your ideas.

The fact is, America needs more oraginizing and unions. That way, employers have to abide by these ideas to begin with. Employees are not slaves and deserve to be treated with respect and aptly compenastated for their efforts.

Any1 who is holding a job with no health coverage needs to do better anyway. How dare employers offer no health coverage in 2010? Its horrendous. Grow those alligator arms and shell out for your employees like a human.

I dont necessarily agree with you that we need more unions in order to make companies offer healthcare to their employees. Many, many companies offer health care, but like mine, its just do damn expensive for people to buy in most cases. And, all this bill is going to do is raise the premiums even more and make it less affordable for everybody.

Originally posted by whatukno

I wonder, what would happen if everyone started dropping their prices? I keep hearing business owners saying they have to raise prices in order to make ends meet. But is that sound economic strategy? Sounds pretty dumb to me, if people don't have the money to buy anything, raising the price doesn't make it easier for people to make the economy move.

I keep hearing business owners talk about laying people off. That doesn't sound smart either. Going to be pretty hard to do business if no one is working. I wonder what would happen if every business in America actually hired 1 or extra people. Yes, it doesn't seem like businesses can afford it, but if business owners hired 1 or 2 people, that would put a major dent in unemployment, people would be earning a paycheck and therefore be able to buy products and services from businesses.

Just my thoughts.

How long does the united states have after 2014? In my opinion, a long long time.

To tell you the truth, I havent watched Glenn Beck for a long time do to him backin Palin so ferociously and other reasons I wont discuss on this forum. But, in response to your question about what if everyone dropped their prices, I ask you how can they when their overhead increases substantionaly like my companies will?

Im not talking peas and carrots here man, Im talking that my overhead will automatically jump up over $1m just due to me having to cover my employees health care. I could see what your saying if every company out there was making a big fat healthy profit, but the realization is that most companies are not....we are still in a recession no matter how those clueless idiots in washington want to spin it. Not only will my overhead jump because of the health care for my company but think how much the prices of my materials will go up because the companies that get the raw materials for the manufacturs, the manufacturers themselves and the supply houses that sell the materials to me are all going to have to raise their prices in order to cover their jump in overhead as well.

Yes, raiseing the prices sounds dumb in this situation to somebody that doesnt understand business. So does laying off people. But, if you have a clue about business (not just a business degree, those dont mean crap when it comes to actually running one), you would know when the cost of your materials goes up then you have to raise your prices as well or either eat into your profits (remember, we arent making a profit some of the weeks) or you will go out of business do to you not being able to afford the materials in the first place. You can try and undercut your competition as much as you can, but if you still arent making enough to at least pay your overhead then you will have to close your doors.

Like I said in the op, you only have a couple ways to actually make your overhead. You cant just not pay your bills. The mortgage/lease/rent needs to be paid along with electricity, water, sewage, materials, and payroll, nevermind all the little extras like having a water cooler at your office or if you have company trucks (like we do) the maitenance and gas for those trucks. If I lower my prices now I'll have to close my doors so when my overhead jumps to over a million dollars more how can I lower my prices or hire more people? If you went to business school, I would ask for my money back if I were you. Book smarts dont apply to street smarts in any way shape or form my friend. Dont take this personal, but the rationale you posted earlier would definately not work for any industry that isnt continually making a nice big health profit with each company that is in it. Its impossible to raise your overhead even more and then lower the amount of money you take in and stay in business at the same time.

If you believe that, then please, forward me 1/4 of your income every month and see if you can still pay your bills. Trust me, before you do, it wont work and you will be out on your butt faster then speedy gonzalez.