Does a Killer Live in Your Home?

My above post is meant to serve as a reminder of the other side of the argument...which is that we need cats, and cats aren't to blame.

It's not meant as a direct refutation of the entirety of the arguments...some of which I can have some sympathy for. But sheesh...has it really come to this? Now we have a 'blame the cats' thread? I'm only kind of joking...it does follow the whole 'finger pointing' thread formula, eh?

Australia and New Zealand are particularly difficult cases...large and long isolated, with the sorts of animals who were wiped out everywhere else long ago from being out competed...

Originally posted by wayaboveitall
Cats belong where their wild anscestors still exist, nowhere else. They are not in my personal opinion only, a suitable domestic pet elsewhere.
They are a magnificent creature in their own right, but their natural behaviour causes too much damage in exotic ecosystems.

Tell me you at least see the irony of that statement as a human living in New Zealand.

Or, own any sheep? Sheep carry LOTS of diseases that are bad for 'the locals' wherever they are brought. But again...a sheep never built a boat. And even if you don't own any, aren't they still the basis for the economy of New Zealand?

Pretty much everywhere except Australia and New Zealand is included in the list of the 'rightful habitats' of cats as you define it. The only other exemptions would be Antarctica...and islands, many of which didn't exist as islands always, and had cats that became extinct when the islands became islands.

So only the islands which where never naturally connected to any land are places where 'cats don't belong.' For example 'hot spot' islands like Hawaii. But then again, many of the rodents in Hawaii or other such islands only exist there because people who showed up somewhat earlier than other people brought them, but not cats.

Should the whole continent of Australia and the whole island of New Zealand be made into a sort of ecological museum? And all of the humans forced to leave? Even the aboriginals don't 'belong' there really by your measure, they came from Africa and southern India and probably Sundaland, a sunken almost-complete land bridge. Quick, everybody, back to Africa where we belong!

I mean really, it's a bad sort of argument to make, a classic environmentalist "wait...I guess you're right, I SHOULD kill myself! Bye guys!" That sort of argument is just not what it takes to provide real, sensible policy leadership.

Domestic cats go where humans go; that's just the deal. They do their part; we're the ones with the capacity to do better, by them, and by us, and by everything else.

Even today, in India, because they haven't invested in modern facilities, rats represent losses of something like...from memory I'd guess 10-20% of stored food: 'starving India' wastes more food than anyone. It's been a while since I looked up the real numbers for a thread on the overpopulation myth, but it's shockingly high.

Cats saved the day. It's probably a big part of why the Egyptians worshiped them. Grain storage was of vital importance to them. Imagine a worried scribe in a grain warehouse...and he or she sees a cat catch and eat a rat. 'Thank the gods, and find me some more cats!'

The other part of the varmint problem is disease. We have every reason to believe that without cats, today's cities would be similarly overrun with disease spreading varmints of all sorts, most of all RATS.

So its Indias fault because they dont call 1800CATS and order a million right away?
Perhaps if people didnt kill snakes out of primative fear, they wouldnt need cats where they dont belong, regardless thats in Australia or india or elsewhere.

Sugar Cane Beetles were the reason the cane toad was introduced. Cats are cane toads with fur in Australia.
Promoting an invasive animal in a given enviroment has major impacts on the wildlife food chain in the said ecosystem.

My above post is meant to serve as a reminder of the other side of the argument...which is that we need cats, and cats aren't to blame

We dont need cats, except where they belong in the ecosystem, feral domestic cats dont belong anywhere.

Tell me you at least see the irony of that statement as a human living in New Zealand.

No, Im In Australia,but please explain the irony again for me?

Or, own any sheep? Sheep carry LOTS of diseases that are bad for 'the locals' wherever they are brought. But again...a sheep never built a boat. And even if you don't own any, aren't they still the basis for the economy of New Zealand?

Yes sheep were a major disaster as far as the ecosystem went for both NZ and OZ. Another reason not to continue to introduce exotic non food animals.

So only the islands which where never naturally connected to any land are places where 'cats don't belong.' For example 'hot spot' islands like Hawaii. But then again, many of the rodents in Hawaii or other such islands only exist there because people who showed up somewhat earlier than other people brought them, but not cats.

© Mastercat , "Dont leave home without it! "




[edit on 24-3-2010 by wayaboveitall]

'And then they came for the cats, and I said nothing???'

I think NOT.

My God, Did you major in Drama by any chance?

Without cats there probably couldn't be any cities. I am not exaggerating at all.

Right, We should be greatful for their building skills!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7669e2f214d7.jpg[/atsimg]

First of all, we never would have made it to 'urban living' without them. Yeah, it has been kind of a dubious reward...but it's not their fault, they have been doing their part. Maybe we need bigger cats...ones that preferred politicians and spies.

Say what? Hello, are you there? Come back to me...*snaps fingers*

So cats probably didn't really become domesticated until the ice age forced people to try and stick together in groups bigger than ~30.

That was when people began to create, in addition to trash dumps, all sorts of stockpiles. A woolly mammoth is a LOT of food, and other stuff too; all of it was cleaned and sorted and...stored in a pile somewhere. And since people weren't moving around so much...the dumps and stock piles were in the same places for long periods.

Right, so rats appeared, DURING THE ICEAGE to feed on wooly mammoth carcases? And domestic, non-sabertooth cats were eating the rats? Wooly cats?
Or were sabertooth rats pretty big then? Must have been to tunnel through the permafrost eh.

In other words, an effort to eliminate city cats could be yet another part of the ongoing WAR TO ELIMINATE YOU. Because apparently, the wealthy and the powerful today consider YOU to be a "VARMINT." Every day...it's more stupidity at the top, more betrayal of their fellows. And now they want us to betray cats too? Ha, even the cats are on our side, you's got no chance, NWO.

A NWO conspiracy against cats? Interesting Maybe we can import some of these? That'll fix em.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/df606ce4664c.jpg[/atsimg]

But that might escalate into intra species war, man!

NWO Super rodent PROOF!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4193ba0f781e.jpg[/atsimg]

damnnnn.... Looks like finding a name to my next cat won't be as difficult as the last one... Dahmer it is!!! or on second thought maybe Gein

reply to post by wayaboveitall


Yes, Australia and New Zealand tend to have some species that are always endangered. I guess it has a lot more impact to introduce non-native species to such a closed environment. But then again, the blame cannot be solely placed on cats either.

Where I live there is no danger of mice or rats going extinct.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by TheComte]

I read once that the black plague of the dark ages came about because the church decided that the cats were witch's familars and sought to wipe them out....which led to a large population of mice and rats, which led to more fleas biting people and spreading the plague....

man is the only creature that steps outside of their predefined role in creation. the cats are just being cats, their work serves to create balance in nature.
if there's a problem with that balance, I would venture to guess that it's man's stupidity that is causing the imbalance, not the cats, or dogs, or wolves, or any other animal.....

oh, an my little black kitty won't go outside even if you leave the door wide open!! any mice she might run across meets it's fate because it has ventured into her domain... I'm not a witch, she isn't a killer...she's just a cat!!!

Originally posted by Riaglo Mirezra

off topic post removed

anybody else catch this????

sorry about the oneliner, but, well, just in case this is serious???

[edit on Sat Mar 27 2010 by DontTreadOnMe]

reply to post by Riaglo Mirezra


oh ya? interesting... A big cat?

what have you seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen??
---------------------
On Topic, kinda;

I despise cats, they're iffy. It's like having a snake as a pet, whats the point?
I have a rat, had a bearded dragon(miss u fella), and four crazy dogs.
All of these know when you're home and actually care.
They also don't give birth in your clothes cupboard or leave random dead things under your couch, on your bed or in your shoes.

okay, I'll stop, everything has it's pro's and con's.
Riddle me this thou diversity that is ATS; why do most cat owners have multiple cats, sometimes near 10 or over?!?!

one more thing, on the issue of survival of the fittest; people need to stop thinking that it is 'cute' to induce pregnancy and birth a litter. That is not natural selection, and it creates an uncalled for abundance of certain species. look at us!

reply to post by Jimjolnir


oh, yes, and I just love the sound of the neighbor's dogs barking half the night!!!

like you said, there's pros and cons for everything....

and, yes, my cat knows when we come home, says hi to us, cuddles us, ect.....
and she will be getting real irked with me soon if I don't give her her morning treats...soo.....well... better get going...
dog's are man's best friends...cats are man's kings and queens!

I love the pictures of the little creatures with the metal gear. Doubled over just thinking, you know, like animal farm, if the cats and the rats took over what we'd be dealing with..

Still trying to think, you know, about my ancestors, since even thought the cat is domesticated, it still kills. My ancestors were probably afraid to cross open fields without other people with them to fend off the larger cats..maybe i mean only a guess...

But, moreso, I'm looking for some ideas in regards to humans and "the hunt" would you say... maybe wall street or online bidding as a "hunt" whereby humans compete or try to devour some living entity, be it food stocks, item on ebay, a competetive company stock. What are your ideas for what do you think that humans hunt now-a-days? the best jobs or security, ..?

reply to post by dawnstar


Fair enough... I know exactly what you're talking about (dogs barking all night).
I just prefer dogs, probably coz I can't roll around wrestling and play fighting with a cat. I've met a few cats in my life that have impressed me and I've enjoyed their company. the biggest problem is that I'm very allergic to their fine hair. Due to this, when I was young I hated cats. Now I don't mind, as long as they stay on my lap and I remember to use one hand to stroke them and not touch my face. a little runny nose is fine, but sinus congestion and a shakey body ain't too much fun.

Sorry for being rude to cats, just my personal opinion anyway.
lastly, kings and queens?
I'd rather have my best friend

Please don't think I'm being nasty, you sound like a real nice person, honest.
like i said, personal opinion.
like one of my friends always says, "We have to be all-right."

[edit on 26-3-2010 by Jimjolnir]

reply to post by bookreader


No way, I don't have a killer in my home, I personally hate cats, and I hate the ones that roam in my yard, poop in my yard, and because of them I have to keep my garage door closed all the time or they will go into my garage and try to eat wires on my car. Little bastards! I do like the fact they kill, chipmunks and mice, but otherwise I feel they are useless.

The only thing I really hate about them, besides the fact they leave hair everywhere, is they will sit there and watch you die, how evil is that? I'm anti-cat what can i say?

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
I have not had to take care of a cat in years. Careful not to use the word own.
But I thought they were a good pet. And I usually consider myself environmentally aware, and I'm out spoken on a variety of topics. But I had failed to realize the problem cats pose. I had never really thought about all those feral cats. Nor had I thought of any local cats - non-feral - posing a risk to other animals. On top of that I had certainly never thought about that nasty disease too many of them carry.

Thanks XXXN30 for the link to youtube on this nasty beast - Toxoplasma gondii

Here's a link to Wikipedia on this bug that lives within a lot of cats:

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 29-3-2010 by ETL71]

LOL, forget about cats, look at the destruction HUMANS are doing this this planet. For the sake of the Earth, and all her other citizen species, I recommend the immediate prohibition of human life on the planet. Do you realize how many species the human race is guilty of exterminating? We should all be sent to hell for what we have done to this planet and all her other species.

Originally posted by BigfootNZ

Yes I have a feline bias

.. but im also a lover of all animals, I just subscribe to reality.

[edit on 22-3-2010 by BigfootNZ]

Star for you.I haven't read in very long while a more decent and logical post . What can I add that's of any value ?.Why don't you take that naturalist's job ?
You certainly have a lot more common sense than him.

Disclosure : One apartment cat owns me and my family and we love her dearly.