The Founding Fathers were FAILURES and DEADBEAT DADS.

Hello ATS, the gut wrenching truth you so love to avoid is once again smacking you in the face. Thread after thread and post after post, many attempt to rise above the herd by rattling off do-gooder speeches, composing new battle cries and standing up for their so-called rights. However, these very people fail to comprehend that a heaping order of calamity was placed centuries ago and is now being served. Yes, you’re lambs being led to the slaughter and the shepherds you placed faith in knew you would follow blindly as they helped orchestrate your very demise. Who are these shepherds? They are your so-called Founding Fathers, the men with a vision of Manifest Destiny, a power structure ruled by their and their biological progenies hand, which was rooted in your grateful servitude and blind patriotism.

What does a shepherd do? A shepherd tends the flock and protects the sheep from attack by wild beasts. A shepherd also leads the sheep to better pastures, a better place to graze and the sheep are content, as they are safe, are able to eat, and multiply, without fear. In some cases, a shepherd can be looked on as a sort of father figure for his guidance is the one keeping the herd alive and leads to sustenance. However, it should be noted that the shepherd is not doing this because he truly cares for the sheep. The shepherd’s real motivation is financial increase (or survival) and such motivation is made tangible by sheering the sheep for wool or by selling the sheep to be slaughtered for consumption. Again, a shepherd can be considered a father figure, for fathers tend to lead their families to better places and protect them. However, in the case of the so-called Founding Fathers, you’ve been led to a place of death, famine, disease, racism, hatred, idiocy, madness, deceit, barbarism and whatever abomination your mind can conceive. You’ve been pillaged for your worth similar to how sheep are sheered. You’ve been fed your hearts desires and now you’re fit for slaughter. In other words, you’re expendable and, your shepherds, your so-called Founding Fathers, are smiling from their graves. However, we should consider the words used in the thread title and see if the Founding Fathers were indeed failures and deadbeats.

A simple definition of failure is: lack of success or a person who does not succeed. Now we must ask a burning question highly relevant to this thread, which is, were the so-called Founding Fathers successful? Well, that answer truly depends on your mental stability and ability to think critically. For the reasonably sane and the critical thinker, they were successful in creating a haven of madness, a cesspool of ignorance, known to the world as The United States of America. By creating a piece of paper you place on a pedestal, which you believe, grants you “rights” as a human, they were successful in keeping you in bondage. They did all of this, while speaking of peace, liberty, happiness and good, yet some of them owned slaves and had relations with them. Hypocritical? Yes, but some of you will make excuses by referring to political climate and culture of those times or will say “blacks weren’t the only slaves”, but none of that matters. The slaves could have all been red, white or blue, it doesn’t matter--these men were hypocrites.

Your ancestors fell for these ideologies because they were a broken people, feeble minded and poor in spirit. They weren’t freethinkers, were without purpose, direction and thought, and so they were used—you’re no different. Like a child never weaned from the bottle, in 2010, centuries after the men in question have passed on; you still cling to their fables of equality, life, liberty and happiness. The myth that you’re free has been ingrained in your psyche and you long for the day to see it come to fruition. Sadly, the day will never come for you, as you can’t even realize you’re still stuck living in the past and clutching to your security blanket.

To those lacking basic cognitive reasoning, wisdom and sound mind, they accept the treacherous concepts put forth by the so-called Founding Fathers. They deem them successful in creating an institution of freedom where democracy shines and the Liberty spreads her grace to all who will come. These same people, however, fail to realize that we do not live in a democracy, or a republic, but a place that is one part oligarchy, one part hegemony and one part plutocracy, and so they agree to conform and reinforce antiquated ideas and a piece of paper that have never, and will never, lead to a prolific outcome.

In reality, the so-called Founding Fathers are a paradox. On one hand they are FAILURES and DEADBEAT DADS because they failed to give you something of truth, something tangible that could be passed on. They failed to do their duties as leaders, for they did not instill principles that would contribute to your survival or the advancement of humanity. They did not lead by example, but instead, chose to be hypocrites and presented you with false motivation, myths of happiness, security and nurtured it through the signing of papers and documents that you subconsciously hold above your own humanity. On the other hand, by giving you something to believe in, they were successful in their goals and successful in securing their offsprings place in this world—the problem is, which you fail to see is, you aren’t that offspring.

EMPIRE


[edit on 21-3-2010 by EMPIRE]

Hehehehe. Nice baiting attempt. No historical foundation, no understanding of the thousands of years of philosophical evolution that lead to our founding, nothing of value.
This is what happens when children lose an argument.

Good for a chuckle though.

[edit on 21-3-2010 by projectvxn]

Please stick to the topic. You're making false accusations, and if I say anything to the contrary I'll be hit with a warning (like I was earlier.) Again, stick to the topic and contribute, or move on.

reply to post by EMPIRE


What is the topic again? The merits of your false an uneducated assertions?
Do I have to agree with you to participate?
You wrote this for attention and I'm giving it to you, so be happy.

Please stick to the topic. You're making false accusations, and if I say anything to the contrary I'll be hit with a warning (like I was earlier.) Again, stick to the topic and contribute, or move on. This thread is to discuss the political madness of America at it's very roots. The topic is the thread title and the concepts being presented in the thread. If you would like to discuss them, feel free to discuss them, however, refrain from making your posts about me or what you believe to be my motivations for making this thread. Again, this thread is within the confines of ATS T&C, and I encourage you to either partake in the topic and address what you feel are false and uneducated assertions or move on. Simply saying "I don't agree" and saying I'm doing this for attention, which is laughable in itself, is not contributing but derailing.

I'm not appealing to a mod to stop you, or change your behavior, I'm asking you, from one person to another, to partake or move on.

Since I have to lead you (like a shepherd), why don't you take your time to discuss the following:

These same people, however, fail to realize that we do not live in a democracy, or a republic, but a place that is one part oligarchy, one part hegemony and one part plutocracy, and so they agree to conform and reinforce antiquated ideas and a piece of paper that have never, and will never, lead to a prolific outcome.

Do you have any evidence to support that we actually live in a democracy or republic and not a place that is a combo of plutocracy, oligrachy and hegemony?



[edit on 21-3-2010 by EMPIRE]

So are the founding fathers a failure for not instilling the belief system or are we the failure for forgetting what they taught and allowing ourselves to be fooled by the wolves in sheep's clothing?

Got to hand it to them wolves though, they made sure that pesky old sheepdog was well tied to the tree before feasting on the flock.



[edit on 21-3-2010 by Ahabstar]

**** ATTENTION ****

Discuss the topic at hand, not each other and certainly not previous Staff actions.

Thank You

reply to post by EMPIRE

Re: your long (TLDR) manifesto:
What country are you from? You should disclose that before you post cr@p about the most successful democratic republic in the last 1000 years. We have problems from infiltrators, spies and foreign operatives who have gained access to try to destroy our republic. That is because we currently have already had our media and representative institutions infiltrated. But many of us are aware, and vigilant, so beware.

My guess is eastern bloc, Israel, China or Moscow. Climb our of your hiding place; I'm from Texas, and not afraid to disclose. Come see us down here.

[edit on 21-3-2010 by 1SawSomeThings]

reply to post by Ahabstar

So are the founding fathers a failure for not instilling the belief system or are the we the failure for forgetting what they taught and allowing ourselves to be fooled by the wolves in sheep's clothing?

This depends on who the wolves in sheep’s clothing are. If they are the FF, they did exactly what they set out to do and blame lies with those who chose to fully century after century.

Got to hand it to them wolves though, they made sure that pesky old sheepdog was well tied to the tree before feasting on the flock.

See above.

reply to post by EMPIRE


Oh, what to do? What to do?

You see, the problem with the concepts of this topic is that they are not confined by any historical control whatsoever. People who wish to believe that their rights are but illusions tend to not be very observant of the Natural world around them. Rights, Cicero's Natural Rights, are common place throughtout all species on Earth, including us. Any time the force of state has been used to suppress these rights there has been blood. Fighting for freedom is a constant state of vigilance, for some have a twisted idea of what rights really are. Some think they have the right to steal from others, kill others wantonly, and spread lies. We've let these type of selfserving people define for themselves an idea that THEY have the right to rule.

And here you are making an attempt to challenge that long standing Natural Tradition as an unwanted and unneeded compulsion of Man the Animal. Good luck fighting nature my friend.

[edit on 21-3-2010 by projectvxn]

That will never lead to a prolific outcome?

*looks around for a candid camera*

Do you know anything about American history?

You do realize that America at its start was broke as hell. John Adams had to work hard overseas just to get countries to recognize that America even existed, much less invest and start commerce with a country that 1) others didn't acknowledge existed and 2) was broke.

It was a startling time for many diplomats because it was either side with the British, or side with the new America. And doing one or the other could be disasterous.

The revolution and Declaration didn't happen in a day. This took decades. Even voting on the DOI took a lot of prompting and fast talking by John Adams.

Yet, we don't have a monument to the man to this day. Which is horrible imo.

The man didn't even like politics, but was a patriot, and spent decades from his family to bring about what is best. When all he wanted to do was be a farmer.


I am sorry, but to insinuate a group of men, whom you don't seem too familiar with, could line up decades of events to bring this all about as a secret plot control a group of people, not very big or wealthy at the time, is just absurd.

And then to say it didn't work, when a tiny country of peasants managed to turn it into a superpower that affects the whole global climate is not a successful plan, is also absurd.

reply to post by 1SawSomeThings


The mods deemed that my response to your post, even though it was simply a quote from the mod telling people to remain on topic and not discuss each other, was off topic.

With that being said, I'll now reply to your post as I have to play by "their" rules and you obviously are allowed to bend them by focusing on me.

Re: your long (TLDR) manifesto:

If it was TL;DR (which translates to Too Long Didn't Read for those who don't know) why don't you read it?

What country are you from?

America, but my country of origin is not important.

You should disclose that before you post cr@p about the most successful democratic republic in the last 1000 years.

See above, and how do we gauge success? By the number of countries we invade? By the amount of resources we use? By our educational system? By the political chess being played everyday? Do tell, sir.

We have problems from infiltrators, spies and foreign operatives who have gained access to try to destroy our republic.

You have problems from your own people. Forget the outsiders, forcus on the so-called leaders who do nothing but further the agenda of status quo.

That is because we currently have already had our media and representative institutions infiltrated.

Infiltrated by who? Members of the CFR and TLC? I agree with you 1005 if this is the case.

But many of us are aware, and vigilant, so beware.

Many are aware of what? I should be aware of what?

My guess is eastern bloc, Israel, China or Moscow. Climb our of your hiding place; I'm from Texas, and not afraid to disclose. Come see us down here

I don't know if this is a veiled threat or challanged, but I've been to Texas, and there is nothing remotely redeeming that I think exists in Texas.

[edit on 21-3-2010 by EMPIRE]

The Kernel would like to debate this topic but its historical inaccuracies are too numerous to mention. It would take days to accumulate the needed info to rebut what needs no rebutting.

So what other country has had the measure of freedom America has had? It's not perfect and we have squandered it but that by no means proves they purposely lead us to our demise.

The King had his agents in the mix however the founders did their best within the confines and limits of thier culture, education, and understanding. Is their room for improvement? of course.

It's easy to judge from our cultural perspective but it often does no apply. And by the way some of us are thier progeny and struggling the same as everyone else.

America has achieved the greatest measure of freedom in known history under the auspices of the Declaration of Independence an the Constitution. It doesn't mean it's perfect and there is no room for improvement. There is no way to ensure future generations will uphold the principles of freedom so why blame the founders? Despite the founders human failings they embodied and illustrated many of the principles of freedom in documents to give humanity something to shoot for. And even though we have regressed for a time we will make another leap forward eventually despite the nay sayers, pessimists and do nothings such as yourself.

You use democracy and republic as if they are both the same light which shows your lack of understanding. The Founders abhorred democracy and it is not mentioned in our founding documents for it is nothing but mob rules. A free republic has to be based on immutable principles of freedom not subject to a democratic vote. What most people don't realize is the Constitution does not apply to them or the states it was merely a compact governing the federal government whose main role was to decide on how to implement mutual protection of the Several states against attack.

You premise is based on flawed understanding of what the socialist democracy/elected oligarchy feigns as De facto government. The Federal republic was again formed for the purposes of mutual defense the State and county republics were operating long before this compact and worked quite well.

I fail see how it is the founders fault that thier progeny squandered the principles of freedom and allowed socialist democracy/oligarchy to supplant the free republics!

reply to post by projectvxn

You see, the problem with the concepts of this topic is that they are not confined by any historical control whatsoever.

History supports what I’m saying.

People who wish to believe that their rights are but illusions tend to not be very observant of the Natural world around them.

This is not a matter of belief but one of fact. In regards to observing the natural world, again history is simply repeating itself, will repeat itself and we will never get it right. We’ll fall for nice words, flattery and things to comfort us-the cycle will repeat.

Rights, Cicero's Natural Rights, are common place throughtout all species on Earth, including us. Any time the force of state has been used to suppress these rights there has been blood.

Actually, there are several instances where nothing was ever done, and we’re currently experiencing it now. However, in the unlikely event something actually happens, who will be place in power? Before you can answer that, you have to first ask, who will actually lead?

Fighting for freedom is a constant state of vigilance, for some have a twisted idea of what rights really are.

Rights are not found in or on a piece of paper, so people need to stop pretending as if they do. Stop fooling yourselves into believing a piece of paper gives you value or humanity, it doesn’t.

Some think they have the right to steal from others, kill others wantonly, and spread lies. We've let these type of selfserving people define for themselves an idea that THEY have the right to rule.

You let them? For how long have you let them? Oh since kingdoms and empires were first established. History, buddy.

And here you are making an attempt to challenge that long standing Natural Tradition as an unwanted and unneeded compulsion of Man the Animal. Good luck fighting nature my friend.

The NATURAL TRADITION is SLAVE v.s. MASTER with MASTER winning and refining his position.


[edit on 21-3-2010 by EMPIRE]

You have an interesting view going on here but you are using it as a veiled attempt to make a point about what seems to be a beef with the mods here on ATS.

I would like to some historical findings that back your thesis.

How could men, 230 years ago, know and dictate the outcome that we are seeing today?

Sometimes in life, things go unexpectedly and horribly wrong. I can provide my children everything they need in life such as: good character, teach them right and wrong, provide a solid education for them, etc., and they might still end up taking a wrong path.

Its how they handle and deal with that path and if they attempt to correct that path back to the foundations they were taught that will be the shining moment in their lives.

As for your claim that the founding fathers have not provided, Nixie just gave a great example of probably one of the most esteemed historical figure of our times that is greatly under appreciated.

As a founding father, John Adams was a: family man (never divorced through tribulation and trials), loved his family and his country, fought tooth and nail and with passion (our Declaration may have been written by Jefferson, but it was John Adams who sold it to the people with vigor and steadfast principles).

You see, I can provide historical context to the contrary of your thesis, can you do the same to back yours up?

The other founding figures in our history were much the same. They were ordinary people placed into an extraordinary circumstance. They all had their faults, their shortcomings and their vices.

reply to post by EMPIRE


Never mentioned a piece of paper. Our rights don't come from paper. And I think we all know that. The Bill of Rights is an affirmation and a contract with the people that the government will respect and protect the Natural Rights. When they step out we must push them back in.

It is not our Founders fault that today we have whiny people who are so dependent on government that they're not even willing to hold on to any rights so long as the chains have a velvet lining. True, we have squandered our rights, but that does not mean we should abandon them. I for one will not.



[edit on 21-3-2010 by projectvxn]

reply to post by nixie_nox

Do you know anything about American history?

Yes, we’re Rome with a coat of paint that happens to be red, white and blue.

You do realize that America at its start was broke as hell. John Adams had to work hard overseas just to get countries to recognize that America even existed, much less invest and start commerce with a country that 1) others didn't acknowledge existed and 2) was broke.

No, America, in the form of the founding fathers, was not broke.
I have to skip some of your other lines because they’re filler.

The revolution and Declaration didn't happen in a day. This took decades. Even voting on the DOI took a lot of prompting and fast talking by John Adams.

How long will it take for the current population to wake up? Decades?

Yet, we don't have a monument to the man to this day. Which is horrible imo.

A monument? To a man? A monument is simply brick, clay or whatever material you’re going to use to make it. This man, in fact, no MAN deserves a monument. Stop worshipping men and looking for messiahs.

The man didn't even like politics, but was a patriot, and spent decades from his family to bring about what is best. When all he wanted to do was be a farmer.

Question, if he is as you say he is, which I doubt, do you think he would want a monument?

I am sorry, but to insinuate a group of men, whom you don't seem too familiar with, could line up decades of events to bring this all about as a secret plot control a group of people, not very big or wealthy at the time, is just absurd.

No, it isn’t absurd. These men saw a need and filled the need. Or you can say they created a need. You see it every day in business. The problem is, you don’t see it because you don’t understand that from the very start, this country has been conducted as a business, and you don’t see it because you fall for soothing words and are predisposed to accepting strong delusion.

And then to say it didn't work, when a tiny country of peasants managed to turn it into a superpower that affects the whole global climate is not a successful plan, is also absurd.

Are you part of that superpower? NO! You’re part of the peasant population, but because you have the “right” to vote, and believe that because you can surf the net, or have “freedom of speech” you think you’re part of the superpower.

reply to post by 1SawSomeThings


While agree with the premise of your post please stop calling it a "democratic" republic! The founders abhorred democracy and they did not set up a democratic republic. Nowhere in the Consttituion or D of I is democracy even mentioned much less embraced. Please read what the founders had to say about democracy. They damned it to hell! What we have today and what yo see in congress etc. has nothing to do with a free republic. In a free republic almost nothing is subject to a vote and most votes have to be unanimous. The state and county republics were autonomous and the constitution did not apply to them.

Democracy is in fact the problem not the answer. See my post: www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 21-3-2010 by hawkiye]