Why 404 a thread vs. Just closing it ?

Dear ATS staff,


Two issues I want to address here, presented in order of priority.

1.

I was just reading the thread "breastfeeding is inappropriate" and get through page 1 and low and behold, I get a 404 screen. Now, this is not the first time that a "gray area" thread has been 404ed. For the life of me, I do not understand why a staff or a group of staff members find it justified to 404 a thread vs. just closing the thread. Other members, such as myself, may still want to read the information provided or contact the original poster via U2U to talk behind the scenes. With it 404ed, there is no way of doing either of the above.

Us ATS members logging in and showing up to this site gives ATS the business it needs to keep running. I think those who visit threads and are enthralled by the topic and then find out they cannot read it anymore get more than a little annoyed by such actions, such as 404ing. Actually, the only time I have ever wanted to leave ATS for good is because of such 404ing.

Information and the opinions of others are lost when this type of actions are invoked. So please, reconsider.

If the thread was just moved, then please disregard the previous words said above.

2.

More of a minor issue but still important, my U2U button is always red. Even if I click on it, it takes me to the "Board" address. If I click on it through member tools, I get the same effect. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

-UP-

[edit on 19-3-2010 by Unlimitedpossibilities]

I was a participant in a thread a few days ago and there was a lot of bickering going on. The MOD threatened to 404 the thread...I don't get it...don't we have T&C and those that don't abide are SUPPOSE TO BE subject to post banning or permanent banning....as I said in that thread "Why delete a thread because of a few bad apples, why not ban those breaking the T&C". I swear, sometimes the MODS seem more like MOODS!

I think it depends less on the topic of the thread, and more on which mod it offends. While I'm not saying all mods on here are the same, a few are shall we say a little biased towards certain subjects and people. I've seen threads here 404ed for nothing, ala the one you are talking about and others with multiple t&c violations per page after page never closed or 404ed. It depends on the mod at the time I think........

I'm surprised at the thread being canned (I signed off at page 3 and there was little to no bickering at that time) so I did miss what came after...

It's too bad really. Discussing social issues should have been something "we" at ATS would embrace with "enthusiasm"...

___________________________
ETA:
However, if personal attacks or bashing was going on, than that's juvenile and posters should have been above that... Guess there are always a few, who are not...



[edit on 19-3-2010 by LadySkadi]

reply to post by adifferentbreed


I think that is definitely possible. ATS staff are humans too. We all are a little bias or discriminatory.

Closing a thread show's, "ah. your thread seemed to get a bit our of control so we closed it." 404ing a thread is more like a punch in the face to enthralled readers.

reply to post by LadySkadi


By any chance, do you know of the member's ATS name who authored the thread? I wanted to possibly contact him or most likely her.

I would U2U but as stated above, my U2U is malfunctioning.

[edit on 19-3-2010 by Unlimitedpossibilities]

EDIT: double post

[edit on 19-3-2010 by Unlimitedpossibilities]

I don't think I've ever been to a forums site whose policy is to send threads into the ether, instead of just locking and letting it die a slow archival death.

I find it incredibly ironic, and a bit disingenuous that "Above Top Secret", one of the foremost authorities on conspiracy communications, general paranoia and other things, and they operate by making threads "disappear" should a few mods disagree with it, or what have you. Very lame, very strange, and not appreciated by many of the users on this site.

For the most part, it serves no one by sending a thread into the internet ether, but in some rare cases, it actually benefits certain groups of people. One of the most common thread themes getting 404'd is anything to do with Israel/Palestine, and things of that nature. Some people get ridiculous, others just mildly bicker and argue, but when the thread gets 404'd, it actually removes all criticism of either proponent, giving a great "sigh of relief" to those who don't like their business being widely known.

Also, I don't appreciate the post deletions either, sometimes entire posts are removed for the most minor of infractions, and the thread is left with huge holes and mysterious exclusions of key pieces of information. However, I really commend and respect the mods that will remove offensive language or censor certain parts of a post, allowing the post to remain to avoid confusion. Again though, coming from "Above Top Secret", it's incredibly strange. It's like internet forum redaction, sans sharpie.

[edit on 19-3-2010 by SyphonX]

I hear ya.

I posted once about Pot vs Alcohol and after a few normal responses, whack 404-no notice or warning. It was the first time I ever saw it-no idea what it was. I wasn't posting it to promote one or the other but rather to get some EDUCATED and INTELLEGENT discussion about it.

There was no explanation on the thread etc (at the time I didn't know you got a follow up U2U etc, not for about 2 months after the event).

I felt like I did something terribly wrong, but now I think I just ticked off the moderator, without intent. I beleived this was a place for open and honest discussion/debate.

What is more upsetting is that Pot is legal in some states and countries so it wasn't like I was breaking laws, or encouraging the same. There are threads I have seen that talk about if Child Porno should be legal and other subjects that I would think warrant that type of overseeing/404

What I am saying is that maybe more notice or contact between the poster-while the tread is on hold or something. my 2 cents

Well some things that are inappropriate like drugs on the board, and hate speeches should be 404ed, but that breastfeeding thread was a very good thread. The woman in that thread, had a very good reason on making that thread, and it should have stayed opened.

reply to post by SyphonX


Aye Aye to that sir.

Sometimes one of the replies from a ATS staff member may be that the moderators are reviewing the thread "as a whole" in order to determine whether or not the thread should be reopened or stay closed. They 404 it of course during the review, but it should not stay 404ed if they decide to leave it closed. They should un404 it then keep it closed, still allowing information to be read by ATS members.

This is just what i have encountered and may not be true in all cases.

Just face it folks, even though ATS is a form of Vital information and I love coming on here and reading different things..this forum is ran like a dictatoprship. Why even have T&C at all...just let people do and say what they want. Let us police ourselves. I'm tired of reading a thread and the next thing its 404'd and I'm also tired on constantly seeing here post have been removed due to T&C violations. Hell, who are they to make that judgement. I'm not talking about all mods here, but I feel some think they are gods or dictators in a since where they can remove what they want or influence a thread by 404'ing it or removing post that THEY seem to be off topic or insulting or what have you. The mods are getting to powerful. They have to much say so power here on ATS.

reply to post by Maddogkull

Well some things that are inappropriate like drugs on the board, and hate speeches should be 404ed

Isn't that what T&C tag violations per post are for? Those are supposed to be the deterrents. 404ing a thread due to a 'few bad apples' who do not care about the information that is lost, should be reconsidered.

I agree with everything else you said.

I feel a 404 coming on! I think the thread should be closed as an example of what T&C was violated so other members don't make the same mistake.

-E-

it's painful to have a thread you're interested in 404'ed, hate it when that happens.

More of a minor issue but still important, my U2U button is always red.

i've had the red u2u button issue up and down, the only thing that works is to delete the u2u that's causing the button to go red. for me it's usually the mass u2u's the admin send that cause it.

My favourite 404 was the recent one about potential cat-like aliens.

Since every other anthropomorphised alien exists already within the Aliens and Ufos section I didn't see the harm myself.

No-one went off topic, nothing was crude and yet it still got 404'rd rather than just running its course.

Makes me think LOLcats are more than just a passing piece of entertainment if you ask me!

-m0r

reply to post by lspilot6946


The owners of the site OWN this site so they can form whatever policies they want. They pay for this address so basically they are entitled to do whatever they please. I respect that because if I were they, I may want to run the site a little differently or turn it into a sports forum or what have you. Yes, we members have power too, in large numbers, just like in the U.S., power in large numbers.

All I am asking is to not replace 'closing a thread' with '404ing a thread'. The two are very different actions in my opinion.

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
I think it depends less on the topic of the thread, and more on which mod it offends

Mods can get offended as members but as mods they can only be offended by people not following the T&C.
They have a tough job on these boards and I would expect every instance to be dealt with accordingly to what they are and not in a systematic fashion like some think.

I could be wrong but thats how I see it.

The thread was apparently started after a member of staff attempted to handle a rather delicate situation in as subtle a manner as possible, which was or may have been initially taken the wrong way or out of context by said thread author.

What resulted was a rather sordid mixture of staff/site bashing intermingled with responses by those truly concerned or interested in the somewhat less than obvious topical focus - Breastfeeding in Public.

It was initally closed and later removed as we simply do not allow threads focused on bashing a given member, their intent, self or person - be it a member of Staff or otherwise.

While the topic of breastfeeding in public is certainly one which apparently has and will continnue to draw heated debate from all sides .. it would be best for those interested in carrying such onward and forward to do so in the appropriate venue.

General Conspiracies on ATS ... if one can justify or find a means by which to demonstrate a particular conspiratorial slant for such in today's society.

OR

Education & Media ... with the same needed qualifier - a demonstrated conspiratorial slant.

Otherwise, it would seem at best an issue worthy discussion via the appropriate BTS forum venue.