Eurofighter VS Rafale

Originally posted by waynos
How exactly does the F-16 'whup it with one'? Speed hasn't been a primary factor in A2A combat for decades.

The F-16 was thoroughly evaluated by the RAF against the Typhoon, as well as the F-15 and F-14 when it looked as if the Germans would force the cancellation of the European project. The RAF's conclusion was that Typhoon MUST be continued with as none of the US alternatives fully met our requirements. F-14 was too big and heavy, F-15 was closest but still not quite there while the F-16 was nowhere. The choice of two engines was made in order to give 'engine-out' flyabilty which no single engine type can possibly have. The EJ200'S were thus sized accordingly so criticism being based on engine number is hardly credible. Also top speed of Typhoon is actually 1,495mph according to the RAF's own website.

The F-16 is kind of old so I understand that. and the F-14 would shoot down an typhoon in a heart beat its just to bad the brits have little azz carriers. how is the F-15 close but not there the typhoon doesn't stand a chance up against an F-15. plus all these aircraft are close to 30 years old but how would an typhoon fare up against an F-22 or F-35. and isnt the F-16's speed 1600 mph.


[edit on 20-6-2004 by WestPoint23]

taking last things first as it were. The actual top speed of an F-15 is 1650 mph, the F-16 however has half the power but more than half the weight so its speed is consequently less. I have seen quotes of 1,250 to 1,333mph, the latter figure may or may not be the most accurate as it has not been rounded up or down, it seems very precise but that is just my opinion. I may be defeating my own argument here though as the Typhoon is heavier than the F-16 with less installed thrust so there ya go! How to find the real truth on top speeds I wonder?

I find the assertion that the F-14 (and F-15 was it?) would easily beat the Typhoon quite odd. To quote a Flight International interview when Typhoon was first started in 1988 "Our new fighter must beat the best thats is out there now and at least match the next generation in air to air combat or the whole thing is a waste of time and money". Being able to outperform the F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18, Mig-29, Su27 et al was thus at the very core of the aircafts design objectives. Don't forget also that it is replacing the Tornado F3 which has the same BVR capability as the F-14/F-15 (but NO actual dogfighting ability, its big weakness) and has the much more capable ECR90 radar as well as the Meteor BVRAAM.
BVR is not the be all and end all however as it is far from infallible, and once a Typhoon and either of the big two US jets came together in a turning fight there could only be one winner as long as the pilot actually knows what he is doing. As has been said, there is only one fighter that beats the Typhoon and that is the F/A-22, although there is a certain Sukhoi that may give biggles sweaty palms.

Eurofighter is the best..

As it happens (for all you non believers out there ) I have today recieved the following information (source Air International, Jul 2004 - "Gathering Storm")

1; In relation to BVR "In service, the entry to service radar standard is reported to have exceeded expectaions, and was described as being "as good if not better than anything out there" in the air to air role with tracking ranges well in excess of 100nm (185Km)"

2; By comparison with other types; "Lt Gen Bruce A Carlson, a former USAF director of operational requirements said 'Typhoon will easily outstrip the capabilities of the Su-35/-37, as well as the F-15 and is considered second only to theF/A-22 in capability. Typhoon is more manoeverable and has better radar detection capability than the F-15 and is harder to detect on radar" Pretty conclusive for me

3; Practical experience; "17(R) Squadron proved this when on February 19 this year two case white Typhoon two seaters (my note - thats the trainer variant folks!) carrying out the first RAF formation training flight were bounced by a pair of 48th Fighter Wing F-15E strike Eagles. "Two rapid counters and we were saddled up in their six, comfortably gunning the trailer who was in full burner in full wing rock wondering what had happened. I love this aircraft! Look out world Typhoon is Coming! said one of the Typhoon pilots afterwards.

Luvvly Jubbly!

Originally posted by waynos
As it happens (for all you non believers out there

) I have today recieved the following information (source Air International, Jul 2004 - "Gathering Storm")

1; In relation to BVR "In service, the entry to service radar standard is reported to have exceeded expectaions, and was described as being "as good if not better than anything out there" in the air to air role with tracking ranges well in excess of 100nm (185Km)"

2; By comparison with other types; "Lt Gen Bruce A Carlson, a former USAF director of operational requirements said 'Typhoon will easily outstrip the capabilities of the Su-35/-37, as well as the F-15 and is considered second only to theF/A-22 in capability. Typhoon is more manoeverable and has better radar detection capability than the F-15 and is harder to detect on radar" Pretty conclusive for me

3; Practical experience; "17(R) Squadron proved this when on February 19 this year two case white Typhoon two seaters (my note - thats the trainer variant folks!) carrying out the first RAF formation training flight were bounced by a pair of 48th Fighter Wing F-15E strike Eagles. "Two rapid counters and we were saddled up in their six, comfortably gunning the trailer who was in full burner in full wing rock wondering what had happened. I love this aircraft! Look out world Typhoon is Coming! said one of the Typhoon pilots afterwards.

Luvvly Jubbly!

can you find me a link for number 3.

The site hasn't been updated yet but it should appear somwhere on here once they get round to it.

www.airinternational.com...

On further checking the site it may nopt appear as it only gives a taster of whats in the issue, presumably so that you go out and buy it. If you can tell me how I would be happy to post a scan of the article or e-mail it to you?

[edit on 22-6-2004 by waynos]

i opened the link where do i go from there?

As I said, it may not make it onto the site but in case it does you need to click on 'current issue- read more' but its still on the Jun issue at the mo, lord knows when the y update it but you need to check out the July issue, you could always go to the newsagent and buy one

im not buying anything

reply to post by InvaderZoch


In other words with your answer you have nominated the Rafale as the better plane.