Reid to McConnell: GOPers Have Spent the Past Year "Misleading the Public" on HCR

talkingpoints memo.com



The rest of the text is included in the source.

I have tried, many times, to imagine myself in the Republicans' shoes and asked myself what I would do if faced with the dilemma they are facing.

It seems to me the Democrats have tried time and again to reach out and work across the aisle, and they have, in fact, used many Republican suggestions in the present versions of the health care bill, especially the Senate version. You would not know that from the Republicans, though. To hear them talk you'd think that none of their demands have been heeded in any way.

The truth is the Republicans don't want ANY health care reform. Nothing. Nada. They talk about starting over again but that's just a delaying tactic. What they really want is the status quo. No changes whatsoever in the present state of health care in the United States, which at this time is ranked 37th in the world (behind most industrialized nations).

The strategy is attack, attack, attack. No reasoning. No real debating. Just destroy the opposition totally.

If that were my goal, I guess I would do pretty much what the GOP is presently doing. I would fight to the death.

To me, though, the goal is better, more affordable health care for all Americans.

That goal should be more important than the coming elections. To the majority of Congress, it looks like it is.



[edit on 12-3-2010 by Sestias]

I said the exact things that you are saying within another thread and got called "an agent of propaganda"
Just warning you of the incoming flood.

Yeah, I agree with you on many of your points. The Dems have tried time and time again to reach out to the party of NO to no avail. I think some of our elected officials have a good bit of maturing to do.

reply to post by TheOneElectric


Thanks for the warning.

I admit I have a left-leaning bias although I can be very conservative about some things.

I think, though, that some ATSers have already pegged me as a commie and a troll. C'est la vie.

At least I acknowledge that I have a bias, which means I am somewhat self-aware.

As SO has said, we all must be aware of politics.

I believe I am capable of having an informed debate without name-calling or flaming others, and of actually trying to understand the other person's point of view.

I don't ask for agreement. Just a good, informed debate.



[edit on 12-3-2010 by Sestias]

-gets some pepsi and some marshmellows for roasting in the upcoming flamewar-

and your right OPs. There was no desire for health care reform to ever be initiated by the right...for a few different reasons. Complex problems make politicians want to put their head in the sand...and thats not a bad strategy.

reply to post by Sestias


dude, some ATSers will post you as some pinko commie troll if your not off the edge of the earth right libertarian. Who cares what they think...most of "those types" were on defense for 8 years with Bush, the most fiscally liberal president we have had in like 30 years.

Dear Leader Reid:

I, as an informed citizen have checked, double checked and triple checked every part and parcel of the US Constitution and have found nothing that grants Congress, nor any part of the Federal Government, the authority and power to conduct such an intrinsic part of each American's life. I have found several parts that clearly state it is not within the powers granted. In fact, the question was even asked of Speaker of the House Pelosi where the Constitution allowed for this and her response was "Are you serious?"

This sort of deflection and refusing to answer the most basic of questions raises quite a number of questions of my own (and of many citizens) that are silently being ignored. Why won't Congress pursue the Amendment process to legally and rightfully gain this authority is chief among them?

For the past year, we have heard nothing but the importance of passing such a massive bill that will impact the life of every American. And if some parts are still contained within, a piece of legislation that could find non-participants facing fines, penalties and prison sentences in direct violation of due process and the rule of law.

What is to be truly gained by our country to have the heavy hand of government intruding in the last large industry still left on our shores? In the 1970's my mother worked at Ohio Casualty along with hundreds of women when gender discrimination made the wages low but the benefits were enormous. Granted that computer technologies have replaced many of the office clerks, but now instead of well over 1000 workers among three large buildings, the entire workforce could be housed on two floors of the smallest building. It is a known fact that over-regulation decreases jobs and benefits as companies struggle to comply with the new rules and meet the expenses. Why in this job market of 20-25% underemployment are such radical changes necessary to be passed at breakneck speed?

I have seen much of partisan grandstanding as well these past 11 months. I question the Democratic Party's concern for the individual American versus making HealthCare Brought by the Democrats as a talking point.

I leave you Senator Reid with the wisest of words known by every master carpenter: "Measure twice, cut once."

How does "Either get on board or we'll find a way to do it without you" constitue "reaching out to the other party" again? I've somehow misplaced my representative to English translation book...

Dear Reid,
How can anyone "distort the facts" when the party that's wasted the past 11 months crafting this bill have refused to allow the public to see it and decide 100% for themselves? Those members of the government who are saying "NO" to this bullcrap are doing so because WE THE PEOPLE (remember us, Reid?) have told them the majority of us do NOT want it. (You may not be aware of this, but you folks are sorta there to do our bidding rather than going rogue and doing whatever the hell you wish.)

Your little line about "Republicans have resorted to extraordinary legislative maneuvers" was so cute I just wanted to pinch your chubby little cheeks! Democrats using the so-called "nuclear option" to force the bill through against the will of the people apparently doesn't constitue "extraordinary manuevering," but demanding that the bill be shared with the American people so we can all know what is actually in it, is?

In closing, please enjoy DC this summer as it will undoubtedly be the last Summer you spend there as the representative from Nevada.

Sincerely,
*my middle finger*

reply to post by burdman30ott6


I guess a really simple question to ask is: Would it be wise for a person to purchase an insurance policy without reading over the details of coverage, payment options and things not specifically covered with at the very least the insurance agent selling you the policy?

I know that I have declined life insurance policies that had tiny premiums ($50-$75 per year) payroll deducted because they lacked disability and dismemberment coverage. And the death benefit was a paltry $5000-10,000. Now if the company wanted to pay the premium as employment benefit, I might have signed.

I have to agree with Reid here, although I don't like the legislation they are proposing. But I don't like the legislation they are proposing because they worked too much with the Right on it.

Now all the health care bill is really about is giving insurance companies more control. (not the government, the insurance companies)

The GOP is going to have some serious spinning to do this election cycle in order to try and show the public they have been on the public's side about this. Because from where I am sitting, they haven't done anything but just try and kill dang near everything the other side has proposed.

To both sides:
Any bill that does not take the heads of the FDA out to the parking lot & shoot them has nothing to do with "reform". If you have read any of the bills then you need to look at the definition again. Also the news story at the bottom.
REFORM
transitive verb
1. to make better by removing faults and defects; correct to reform a calendar
2.
1. to make better by putting a stop to abuses or malpractices or by introducing better procedures, etc.
2. to put a stop to (abuses, etc.)
3. to cause or persuade (a person) to give up misconduct and behave better

Etymology: ME reformen < OFr reformer < L reformare: see re- & form

intransitive verb
to become better in behavior

noun
1. a correction of faults or evils, as in government or society; social or political improvement
2. an improvement in character and conduct; reformation
3. a movement aimed at removing political or social abuses

NEWS
finance.senate.gov...
Dear Mr. President:
The purpose of this letter is to draw your attention to the frustration and outrage that FDA physicians and scientists, public advocacy groups, the press, and the American people, have repeatedly expressed over the misdeeds of FDA officials. Recent press reports revealed extensive evidence of serious wrongdoing by Dr. Andrew von Eschenbach, Dr. Frank M. Torti, top FDA attorneys, Center and Office Directors, and many others in prominent positions of authority at FDA. As a result, Dr. Frank M. Torti, Acting Commissioner and the FDA’s first Chief Scientist, abruptly left the Agency.
But, the many other FDA managers who have failed to protect the American public, who have violated laws, rules, and regulations, who have suppressed or altered scientific or technological findings and conclusions, who have abused their power and authority, and who have engaged in illegal retaliation against those who speak out, have not been held accountable and remain in place.

reply to post by Sestias

more affordable health care for all Americans.

That goal should be more important than the coming elections. To the majority of Congress, it looks like it is.

Really, my friend.

Is that why they made backroom deals with Big pharma and unions and God knows who else?

First, Dems didn't need help to push this agenda through. They had the numbers. Obviously, they themselves didn't think it was good enough.

Second, there is no guarantee anywhere in that bill that says that healthcare will be affordable or that premiums and costs will decrease.

All you have is speculation, estimation, and HOPE.

The only guarantee is the taxes.

Finally, neither party has the American interest at heart. In the end, it is all about them and the people that surround them. We merely get the scraps to keep us somewhat content.

Is an immoral law legal? From what I have read and understand of the law is the following: To be a citizen of the United States of America, all person has to be is one of the following: 1) Born on American soil or territory, or 2) Be born of parents who are American Citizens already, or 3) be a naturalized citizen. The Health Care bill that is proposed and what all has transpired has shown the depravity and desperation of those in the federal government to get such past. Actions that would get most of us jailed, fired and sued in the private sector. Votes bought, kickbacks given all for a vote or 2, and at the cost of the American public. Threats, blackmail and intimidations seem to be the key points that the government is doing to get it passed. And not one thing that the government is doing to make things better. One side always has the majority to get things passed, yet can't seem to get anything done, for over a year the Democrats have had the majority doing what every they so please at the expense of the american public. And what is even worse when called on issues, they either ignore or choose to not reply to WE THE PEOPLE. When called on policy, their excuse is well the republicans did it, not once has one person in the Federal Government has stood up and stated: The Buck stops here, or has been leader enough to wisely govern. When this country was first founded, it was stated that when Dr. Lymon Hall, from Georgia, first heard about the question of American independence, he stated, he was not sure if he should listen to the people or vote his conscious. The people of Georgia was against it, he was for it. It was not until after he has given it great thought and let logic and facts guide his vote in the end. But he gave it that thought, where the current legislature does not even read the bills that they are passing, rather just voting and saying see what we have done. I think that for what we the people are paying the federal government, We the people deserve a government that can take the reins of leadership and actually do their job.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
How does "Either get on board or we'll find a way to do it without you" constitue "reaching out to the other party" again? I've somehow misplaced my representative to English translation book...

Did you miss Obama's seven-hour-long meeting with Congressional Republicans that was broadcast in its entirety on C-Span last month?

Did you miss all the negotiations, with Congress and with the White House, from last March until now? Did you miss the town hall meetings?

You might have missed much of the give and take, and all the concessions made to the Republicans, because in the end they didn't vote for anything, even after their own ideas were incorporated. Once the Dems took their suggestions the Repubs were against them.

You might have missed a lot of this, just as I might have missed other things, because we probably listen to our own preferred media a lot of the time.

In the left-leaning media much was made of the Dem's attempts at negotiation and compromise.

Healthcare hasn't been an issue only since Obama came to power, the republicans had 8 years (!!!) to start a reform, and haven't done so. Now that someone tries to implement change, they pretend to be in favor of a reform...suuuuuure they are

If people would take the time to read the bill instead of repeating a lot of (often false) talking points by certain republicans and media outlets, they would actually like a lot of what's in the bill. Republicans lost the vote, are pissed about it, and now obviously oppose as much as they can.

Not saying the bill is 100% perfect, but it's 1000x better than the status quo the republicans supported for 8 years under Bush.

Also, lol @ the people who are upset about the "nuclear option"...51% is a friggin' majority last I checked. If a vote gets 51% in a lot of other countries, it is considered a majority. In science, 51% is a majority too. Not sure why some people freak out about it now. Bush passed a lot of laws that way and no one complained, especially not the news outlets (*cough* FOX *cough*) which are now complaining.

[edit on 12-3-2010 by MrXYZ]

Originally posted by jam321

Is that why they made backroom deals with Big pharma and unions and God knows who else?

True, the President's deal with Big Pharma was a big disappointment to me. I made a thread a couple of months ago about the drug companies raising their prices in light of the anticipated health care reform. As I understand the deal, Pharma had supposedly agreed to cut prices by about 80 billion. But if they raise their prices by 80 billion or more where will we be? We the consumers and the government will still be stuck with unconscionable prices, at taxpayers' expense.

ALL presidents have had to cut many deals to get their agendas through Congress, but I admit to being stymied by this one.

First, Dems didn't need help to push this agenda through. They had the numbers. Obviously, they themselves didn't think it was good enough.

Fair enough. It was reasonable to accept Republican input into the bills, but IMO the Dems wimped out and gave away the store (like the public option) to people who were never going to vote for hcr anyway. The Senate version of the bill, especially, has so much Repub influence in it, it has practically become a giant give-away to the insurance industry.

Second, there is no guarantee anywhere in that bill that says that healthcare will be affordable or that premiums and costs will decrease.

True again. But there was no ironclad guarantee that Social Security or Medicare would work the way they were projected to, either. Still, these are "middle class entitlements" that Americans would not give up now. IMO maintaining the status quo as it relates to health care is a fast track to disaster too. Health care is already not affordable for millions and costs continue to rise faster than most of us can keep up with.

Finally, neither party has the American interest at heart. In the end, it is all about them and the people that surround them. We merely get the scraps to keep us somewhat content.

Here we definitely agree. HCR as it has actually evolved does not come close to what it could be or should be.

To me, it's better than nothing, but not by a whole lot.

reply to post by Sestias


You really trust Reid? He was the one running around at the last minute buying off Senators' votes who were on the fence about that 2,000 page health care monstrosity.

If this was such a great Democratic package then why did members of the Democrats' own party have misgivings about it? Are you going to try to blame the Republicans for misleading them also? If so, then I suppose that means these "on the fence" Democrats couldn't be bothered to actually read the legislation for themselves, could they?

This story Reid is shoveling about the GOP misleading the public on healthcare is nothing but a futile attempt at damage repair on his part. All the GOP did was to show expose the parts of the health care bill that the Democrats didn't want them to see. The Demcrats don't have any idea how to fix health care - this 2,000 page bill isn't the way to go and neither is the one they say that caters to the Republicans' demands.

The whole thing needs to be started over from scratch.

reply to post by Sestias


Far more likely that I missed some of that because it was broadcast while I was at work. Y'know work? What bills like this will require me to do more of to make ends meet and make up for the additional chunk of my paycheck the government will be stealing every 2 weeks so that I can help support people other than my wife and children?

Bottom line... the only words that need to come out of any politician's mouth, about any bill is "This bill will cost you (as in me, burdman30ott6) more every paycheck" and that's what I'll check. Facts are facts and fear mongering is fear mongering, but the FACTS are that this current bill being hashed out will cost me (and every other working American not sitting at or near the poverty line) more money from their hard earned dollars. That's been demonstrated time and again here.

When I get up every Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday morning and drag my carcass into work, I do not do so thinking "Oh goodie! I get to support people I've never met nor wish to meet today!" I do it for 3 reasons... one of the reasons is my wife, the other 2 reasons are my little boy and my little girl. I believe this gangster government is already guilty of robbery for the taxes and fees they wrench from my check as it is. Any further theft by them is not going to be acquiesced to by me easily. Any additional dollar they steal from me is a dollar stolen from my kids, my dinner table, my HOME... it's ironic that I live in a state where I can put a slug between the eyes of a burglar if I were to catch them in my home stealing from me... but the feds are allowed to do it with no recrimination from me 26 times a year?

So I could honestly care less what the GOP is doing or saying to block immoral and unethical nonsense like this. They could the American people that the bill will rape their fathers and kill their mothers for all I care, the bottom line is they're doing what they can to block it and that's alright by me. That includes virtually EVERY bill they have said "no" to. If it is going to cost me money, screw it! I don't need it and neither do the rest of the working American men and women out there who are doing their best to hold onto every penny they make.

Again I say, these supposed concessions by Obama, whoopity damn doo! The concessions I gave seen have not eliminated the fact that the bill will cost us more today and add to our debts tomorrow. Medical bills? I can work through that... forced purchase orders from the feds with escalating fines and possible imprisonment or a Ruby Ridge like scene at my home if I refuse to comply? That is unacceptible to me and to many millions (the majority in fact, according to virtually every poll I've seen) hard working Americans.

reply to post by Sestias


I don't get into this too much but what the heck, its 0430ish

"Simple" reform could enacted near instantaneously but both parties (with the Dems leading the charge) do not want simple.

Many here and across the country have seemed to come to think that insurance is to cover everything and anything. If you want to see reduced costs in insurance premiums, stop the silly mandates that force Insurance Companies from including everything into even the most basic of plans.

Insurance should be catastrophic in coverage, not mundane and enabling.

Allow companies to sell their plans across State lines, thus creating a larger market and pool of insurance holders.

I appeal, no, I beg for anyone who has actually read this legislation to show me any aspect of it that will make Health Care more affordable to the average consumer. I challenge anyone to describe how my Government mandated purchase of a Health Care Insurance premium at a cost of $15,000/yr. for my family, according to the CBO's own figures, is lowering my costs. I challenge anyone to describe how the myriad of increased taxes, fees, and penalties to be assessed on various insurance, medical device companies, and other medical industry interests, that will absolutely be passed on to us as consumers will help lower costs.

It's not so much that the GOP doesn't want health care reform. After all, they have supported many of the notions that are in this bill before. They just don't want ANYTHING that the Democrats are doing to succeed. A success for Obama means a second term for him. And the GOP wants to stop that by any means possible.

Damn the Country, Obama Must Fail.