What will you do when the federal government forces you to buy health insurance?

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


The symptoms of a civilized society is not one where government forces you to pay for your neighbors problems.

A civilized society does not lust after your neighbors possessions as your government seems to advocate soon you end up with a government full of thieves and citizens who will not strive to great things.

All governments should do is insure all men are equal and men will take the world to Wherever it may go.

I don't need some government sucking the life out of millions of folks and manipulating society

Governments create the bubbles,the class warfare,the slavery,the economic meltdowns, the wars. Why would i give them the power to get involved in my health needs they seem to have enough problem son there hands.

You would think you folks would have learned from mao and Stalin Mussolini.
Eh guess not you folks just love bring pain on your fellow citizens. You will pay.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Frankly it is for our safety to have health insurance IMO. The guys who are 'invincible' and never use the health care system. Well good for you...what happens when you get into a car wreck and need an operation? You gonna pay that 30,000 dollars yourself? Could be less...heck could be more! My shoulder reconstruction was 27 grand. Know how much I paid? 100 dollars. That operation instantly paid off every dollar I'd ever spent in health insurance.

But hey play roulette if ya like. Frankly I think it is foolish to go through life without insurance...scary as hell IMO

-Kyo

I am not going to be "forced" to buy anything. Bring it on! I believe the states have a say in this, do they not? If they attempt to "force" me to buy anything, I will be hiring a lawyer and fighting for my rights. I suggest anyone who feels as I do, do the same.

Originally posted by serendipitynow
I am not going to be "forced" to buy anything. Bring it on! I believe the states have a say in this, do they not? If they attempt to "force" me to buy anything, I will be hiring a lawyer and fighting for my rights. I suggest anyone who feels as I do, do the same.

Good luck with that. You will be up against the people that make the rules, and you cannot win against them.

Originally posted by SpacePunk

Originally posted by serendipitynow
I am not going to be "forced" to buy anything. Bring it on! I believe the states have a say in this, do they not? If they attempt to "force" me to buy anything, I will be hiring a lawyer and fighting for my rights. I suggest anyone who feels as I do, do the same.

Good luck with that. You will be up against the people that make the rules, and you cannot win against them.

No. You can win against them. No matter how layered their rules are, it will eventually end as a vote by elected representatives. If they voted NO to the healthcare bill, then to qoute a famous saying ' The vote is final. The Tribe has spoken'.

Year 2010 will be the year that generations later will look back, when they face the stark reality of high medical costs upfront to save their life with no social safety net, for having defeated such legislature to help offset such costs, and will either chose euthanesia or beg and borrow to be able to see another sunrise on Planet Earth.

No one else in society will be blamed for their pain and sorrows, for they had chosed and spoken. Freedom comes with a responsibility, and those responsible in society had tried, but defeated.

We will, with a heavy heart, say sorry, and gently close our doors to them, and hardened our flesh made hearts, and close our eyes to their sufferings....

Please re-consider the bill, there is still time before the final vote, if not for ourselves, at least for the next generations to come within our society, the only one we have.....

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


They'll just change the rules, or the interpretation of the rules to suit their needs. The idea that you, or anybody else has a say in any matter is just an illusion. One that I don't hold. It's like watching a sadistic hypnotist making a whole theater full of people eat $100 plates of feces while convincing them it's Fillet Mignon. It no longer has anything to do with what is right, nor is there any application of common sense. Look at the vacant eyes of your neighbors, coworkers, and other people that you come into contact with. You will see that 'we' have lost. Those people are incapable of independent action beyond what their own immediate need is. They are happy being told what to think, how to feel, and what to do. The hell of it is that the system cannot change without their participation, and their participation is limited to what the talking heads tell them. It's been said before, but common sense is so rare that it should be classified as a super power. They'll pay their 'health tax' to the insurance industry, you'll pay it, I'll pay it, etc... We will be left with no choice.

The only way to win this battle is to hit them where it hurts, and that's right in the economy. What I am forced to spend on this 'health tax' will not be spent in other areas. Right now the wife and I are paying our debt down at an accelerated rate. This denies corporate America their projected interest income, and hurts the economy. We do not spend outside of what we need which also hurts the economy. More people need to jump on the bandwagon. Not for the short term, but for the long term. No 'stocking up' before like the stupid gas protests where people wouldn't purchase gas on a wednesday, for instance, only to fill up the day before, or the day after. No hollow gestures, but a real slowdown in spending. They want to break us, fine, we can collectively break them. A few of us will get bloody noses, but I'll take mine just to give them theirs.

Slow down the economy, that's the only tactic that we are left with.

Originally posted by Erasurehead
It is very much different than requiring auto or home owners insurance. You can choose not to own a car or a home. I know many people that live in the city that rent and only use mass transit to get around.

I understand your POV, but the flaw in your argument is that when you rent, your landlord must pay some sort of homeowners insurance and part of your rent is going to pay that. As with mass transit, that vehicle you're riding MUST be insured and part of the fee you pay goes to insuring it.

There is no choice when it comes to making people buy health insurance so I don't buy that argument.

Yes there is. You can pay a fee. If you can afford to pay for the health care of you and your family for the rest of your lives to the point that you can GUARANTEE that you will always be able to pay medical bills no matter how many millions of dollars they reach, then you can afford to pay the waiver fee.

I am actually against a mandate, but this is the only way I can see it working. If there were a way that those who choose not to buy insurance could guarantee that they would never use the service, then I would support that. But we can't turn someone away just because they can't pay the bill. We can't leave people in the streets dying. We live in a society that does not permit that.

SeekerofTruth101 has made a lot of good points.

From what I understand, anyone making less than 85k I believe gets a credit that allows them to get health insurance for nearly free anyhow.

I dont believe it should be required to have health insurance, however, if it becomes that cheap to almost free, and reasonable for those with financial means (even less expensive than it currently is). then I wouldn't be opposed to hospitals requiring collateral before treatment. Its one thing to say you cannot afford the insurance, its another thing to say you wont pay your bills out of principle.

So, mandatory should not be part of the bill in my opinion...let them risk it and either pay in cash when they get hurt to the full extent of how much the hospitals can milk em, or let them live with the consequences of their choice. That is the american way. (cant get a library book until you sign up in the first place)

As far as private insurance companys, I would prefer a public option simply because I see no difference between government between me and my doctor, and a insurance agent...one difference being my money would go towards reducing the debt with the public option, or go towards some insurance stakeholders with private whom proven themselves to be the scum of the earth anyhow.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
But we can't turn someone away just because they can't pay the bill. We can't leave people in the streets dying. We live in a society that does not permit that.

But, we can respect a persons right to refuse treatment so long as they are an adult. By choosing no health care cover, it would be about the same as openly stating you are refusing treatment and will only accept it with payment information beforehand, else the medical establishment should respect the wishes of the persons right to suffer/die.

We were already forced, under duress, to purchase health insurance previously. So really not much has changed.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
But, we can respect a persons right to refuse treatment so long as they are an adult. By choosing no health care cover, it would be about the same as openly stating you are refusing treatment and will only accept it with payment information beforehand, else the medical establishment should respect the wishes of the persons right to suffer/die.

I agree with you in principle, but what do we do when that person (who has now lost his job because of his illness) begins to seriously suffer from his illness and shows up at the emergency room begging to ease his pain? Or when the life of his wife and baby are in danger because the baby they're about to have turns out to be breech? Respect their wished to suffer and die?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


As I said, there is a difference between not being able to afford health insurance, and refusing to buy it whom can afford it.

The understanding is anyone under 85k will be getting it for almost free anyhow, and with that, someone unemployed can get help. It will for the most part be a matter of pure choice on health care.

I simply say, respect the persons rights to refuse health care if it is their choice...
Children should be required to be covered. Your nutcase parents should not endanger the health and well being of children..And, that should be a freebie straight across the board

None of this is the concept of America btw...I acknowledge that...but neither is a library...yet we cherish those socialist monuments in our society...hell, even Glenn Beck goes on about how he got a free education from the library...total socialist loving marxist, that one.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
As I said, there is a difference between not being able to afford health insurance, and refusing to buy it whom can afford it.

Yes. But if there's a way for people to NOT buy it and still use the services, they will. To some people in lower income brackets, even the minimum price they have to pay is going to be determined to be too much when that money could provide something else they want or need.

The understanding is anyone under 85k will be getting it for almost free anyhow,

I don't know about this. Was a source posted for this? Because it sounds like a high number for assistance or price break of any kind. I think that's probably a much lower number. I could be wrong.

None of this is the concept of America btw...I acknowledge that...but neither is a library...yet we cherish those socialist monuments in our society...hell, even Glenn Beck goes on about how he got a free education from the library...total socialist loving marxist, that one.

No American should be forced into supporting a private entity for profits, we are not indented servants, neither slaves to the state.

Our constitution doesn't say anything about we supporting private entities at all.

Mandatory health care to become servants to private interest should never be allowed in our nation.

Plain and simple, is time to fight back and this is the braking point of corporate power against the people.

Here are the details I have found:

—INSURANCE MANDATE: Like the bills approved last year by the House and Senate, the proposal would require almost everyone to be insured or pay a fine. There is an exemption for low-income people. The Senate bill exempted people with incomes under the federal poverty level ($21,200 for a family of four) whereas Obama’s plan, like the House version, would exempt people under the tax-filing threshold ($45,295 for a family of four). But the fines levied under the insurance mandate would be higher than the Senate proposed. Obama also keeps a “hardship exemption” that excuses anyone from buying insurance if it would cost more than 8 percent of their income.

You seem to be right that there are subsidies for people making under $88K for a family of four:

—SUBSIDIES: Obama provides more generous subsidies overall for purchasing insurance than the Senate bill did. The aid is available for households making up to four times the federal poverty level ($88,000 for a family of four).

Source

So may not be "practically free" but there would be some "generous" help. Still, if the father of that family feels he could make a car payment or pay off some bills or even have a fun weekend out with the boys instead of paying for health insurance that he may never use, he may very well opt for that instead of health insurance.

Originally posted by marg6043
No American should be forced into supporting a private entity for profits

Agree 100%. Health care should not be a for profit industry in the first place.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Erasurehead
What will you do when the federal government forces you to buy health insurance?

I'm already buying it, so... I'll do nothing.

To me, it's no different than requiring us to buy auto insurance. Or homeowners insurance. If there was a way to guarantee that people would never use health care, then I can see your beef, but until there's a way to prevent a person from using the health care system, then requiring them to either buy it or pay a fee seems logical to me.

Of course ANYTHING Obama says is going to seem logical to you, BH.

Answer this question: How the hell is forcing people to pay exhorbitant amounts of money for health insurance going to solve anything WHEN THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT NOW? Is the government going to give low-income families some sort of allowance? Is the cost based on income? Tax bracket? Fixed rate?

Most low-income and even middle-class families are struggling to make ends meet in this economy as it is and of course YOU don't see anything wrong with it because Mister "change we can believe in" said it from a high and mighty podium.

God, I have never loathed someone as much as I loathe you and your kind who blindly follow Obama. Ignorant shill!

[edit on 24-2-2010 by sos37]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Here are the details I have found:

—INSURANCE MANDATE: Like the bills approved last year by the House and Senate, the proposal would require almost everyone to be insured or pay a fine. There is an exemption for low-income people. The Senate bill exempted people with incomes under the federal poverty level ($21,200 for a family of four) whereas Obama’s plan, like the House version, would exempt people under the tax-filing threshold ($45,295 for a family of four). But the fines levied under the insurance mandate would be higher than the Senate proposed. Obama also keeps a “hardship exemption” that excuses anyone from buying insurance if it would cost more than 8 percent of their income.

So Obama excuses the fine. Great. But people meeting the "hardship exemption" still don't have insurance do they?

And people who are above the hardship exemption are still required to pony up.

You seem to be right that there are subsidies for people making under $88K for a family of four:

—SUBSIDIES: Obama provides more generous subsidies overall for purchasing insurance than the Senate bill did. The aid is available for households making up to four times the federal poverty level ($88,000 for a family of four).

Source

So may not be "practically free" but there would be some "generous" help. Still, if the father of that family feels he could make a car payment or pay off some bills or even have a fun weekend out with the boys instead of paying for health insurance that he may never use, he may very well opt for that instead of health insurance.

That's assuming middle-class families have money in the bank left over after their necessities are paid off. What about people living from paycheck to paycheck? This "aid" isn't going to pay for all of the required portion that the government is going to force you to pay.

Second, this is what I hear you saying for those families who do have any money left over and don't have health insurance: "how DARE you try to get ahead on your bills or have a life when you don't even have health insurance! SHAME ON YOU!" You think they should squeeze their last drop of money into health insurance and start living paycheck to paycheck?

And then there's the question of where is this "aid" going to come from? Are we going to add it to the already trillions of dollars in debt that we're in?

Originally posted by sos37
Of course ANYTHING Obama says is going to seem logical to you, BH.

That's not true at all, but if you feel better spreading lies about me, That's OK. I can take it.

Answer this question: How the hell is forcing people to pay exhorbitant amounts of money for health insurance going to solve anything WHEN THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT NOW? Is the government going to give low-income families some sort of allowance? Is the cost based on income? Tax bracket? Fixed rate?

Honey, you're going to have to do your own research. I'm not your secretary. I don't know what the prices are, so can't say whether they're exorbitant or not.

God, I have never loathed someone as much as I loathe you and your kind who blindly follow Obama.

That's pretty obvious. It sounds like you're ready to blow a blood vessel. But I do not blindly follow Obama. I criticize him and his actions many times. And you know this. We've been through this many times. I tire of it.

If you want to discuss something with me, I'll be happy to, but not as long as you're foaming at the mouth.

[edit on 2/24/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by sos37

God, I have never loathed someone as much as I loathe you and your kind who blindly follow Obama. Ignorant shill!

I tend to feel the same way about those who blindly follow a corporate shill like Glenn Beck or the Fox News Network.